... Forum

[cunninghat]

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[84651846190]

Compensation is almost always lower, unless the person is going to another biglaw firm. For litigation, most associates I know left for smaller firms. About 1/4 left to other biglaw firms. A couple left for clerkships; another couple went solo. One left to become an AUSA (but she had ridiculous credentials and connections). One left to go in house. For corporate, most associates went in house or left for other biglaw firms. I know two people who left law altogether.

The thing about exit options is that, in most instances, they are binary: you're either a shoe-in or there's no way in hell you're going to get the job. Most people exit to places that they've built relationships with and worked with in the past. So a lot of where you end up is completely random because biglaw associates usually don't get to choose what they want to work on, at least not in this economy. You get staffed on a case, get to know people, and eventually end up leaving to work with them or with attorneys who have also worked with them in the past (in the case of lit associates leaving to boutiques). In short, it's nothing like going through OCI or getting into law school. Most people don't give a flying fuck about your Contracts grade or your latin honors when you're trying to get them to hook you up with a job. It's assumed that you're smart enough to do the work (which is really not that hard). They want to know if they can work with you, like you, and trust you.

[BruceWayne]

The above advice is great except the grades part. If you're only 3-5 years out of school not only do they give a flying F; it's one of the most important determinants of your options. It's a widely held tls myth that grades don't matter after your first job. That's true in the non biglaw world. But for biglaw and biglaw lateral feeder jobs it's not true at all. Our profession is obsessed with academics.

[84651846190]

The above advice is great except the grades part. If you're only 3-5 years out of school not only do they give a flying F; it's one of the most important determinants of your options. It's a widely held tls myth that grades don't matter after your first job. That's true in the non biglaw world. But for biglaw and biglaw lateral feeder jobs it's not true at all. Our profession is obsessed with academics.

I agree that grades matter for some people. My point was that they don't matter if you're landing a job based on connections which, IMO, is the most common way to get your second job after biglaw. At my firm, most people have the grades to land a lateral position at most biglaw firms, but I guess if you've slacked off to the point where your grades are below median, then yeah, you're screwed out of lateraling to another biglaw firm. But if you have to fall back on your grades to get you a job, you've kind of failed at networking. I don't know why you would think things would be better at a different biglaw firm if you're just relying on grades. Maybe you would like the area or people better, but sooner or later you're going to have to get into the business of getting to know clients and other lawyers to the point where you can sustain a career. I'm sure there are people who are satisfied to spend the rest of their lives eagerly taking work from people who are dumber than them and relying 100% on their credentials to get them work, but this seems like a much harder way of going about things.

[westphillybandr]

The above advice is great except the grades part. If you're only 3-5 years out of school not only do they give a flying F; it's one of the most important determinants of your options. It's a widely held tls myth that grades don't matter after your first job. That's true in the non biglaw world. But for biglaw and biglaw lateral feeder jobs it's not true at all. Our profession is obsessed with academics.

How much do grades matter after your first job? What are your plans after biglaw? Are you worried about the grade aspect?

[Anonymous User]

The above advice is great except the grades part. If you're only 3-5 years out of school not only do they give a flying F; it's one of the most important determinants of your options. It's a widely held tls myth that grades don't matter after your first job. That's true in the non biglaw world. But for biglaw and biglaw lateral feeder jobs it's not true at all. Our profession is obsessed with academics.

I agree that grades matter for some people. My point was that they don't matter if you're landing a job based on connections which, IMO, is the most common way to get your second job after biglaw. At my firm, most people have the grades to land a lateral position at most biglaw firms, but I guess if you've slacked off to the point where your grades are below median, then yeah, you're screwed out of lateraling to another biglaw firm. But if you have to fall back on your grades to get you a job, you've kind of failed at networking. I don't know why you would think things would be better at a different biglaw firm if you're just relying on grades. Maybe you would like the area or people better, but sooner or later you're going to have to get into the business of getting to know clients and other lawyers to the point where you can sustain a career. I'm sure there are people who are satisfied to spend the rest of their lives eagerly taking work from people who are dumber than them and relying 100% on their credentials to get them work, but this seems like a much harder way of going about things.

At what stage in your career do these relationships really matter? I'm not really sure I'm impressing a client enough for them to offer me a job when I do disclosure schedules o diligence really, really well...

[84651846190]

The above advice is great except the grades part. If you're only 3-5 years out of school not only do they give a flying F; it's one of the most important determinants of your options. It's a widely held tls myth that grades don't matter after your first job. That's true in the non biglaw world. But for biglaw and biglaw lateral feeder jobs it's not true at all. Our profession is obsessed with academics.

I agree that grades matter for some people. My point was that they don't matter if you're landing a job based on connections which, IMO, is the most common way to get your second job after biglaw. At my firm, most people have the grades to land a lateral position at most biglaw firms, but I guess if you've slacked off to the point where your grades are below median, then yeah, you're screwed out of lateraling to another biglaw firm. But if you have to fall back on your grades to get you a job, you've kind of failed at networking. I don't know why you would think things would be better at a different biglaw firm if you're just relying on grades. Maybe you would like the area or people better, but sooner or later you're going to have to get into the business of getting to know clients and other lawyers to the point where you can sustain a career. I'm sure there are people who are satisfied to spend the rest of their lives eagerly taking work from people who are dumber than them and relying 100% on their credentials to get them work, but this seems like a much harder way of going about things.

At what stage in your career do these relationships really matter? I'm not really sure I'm impressing a client enough for them to offer me a job when I do disclosure schedules o diligence really, really well...

As soon as you get client contact, take advantage of it. Some people literally never get client contact at their biglaw firm, even after they become senior associates. Others get it right out of the gate. It really varies. If you never get significant client contact, your best resource would be attorneys you work with on a daily basis. They often DO have client contact and can hook you up with one of their friends' jobs.

[dingbat]

At what stage in your career do these relationships really matter? I'm not really sure I'm impressing a client enough for them to offer me a job when I do disclosure schedules o diligence really, really well...

You'd be surprised

[Anonymous User]

I get plenty of client contact... But for completing disclosure schedules and diligence. That's whatim trying to say. I assume that the associate above me drafting the purchase agreement and getting client contact will be in a better position to impress and connect. I'm not complaining; I'm just wondering at what point do client connections matter to the point you can start networking for jobs...

[dingbat]

I get plenty of client contact... But for completing disclosure schedules and diligence. That's whatim trying to say. I assume that the associate above me drafting the purchase agreement and getting client contact will be in a better position to impress and connect. I'm not complaining; I'm just wondering at what point do client connections matter to the point you can start networking for jobs...

As soon as you get client contact you start networking. Doesn't mean you can leverage it right away (ever) but it means that they get to know you and get to learn what kind of worker you are.

[anon168]

Is the search function broken or did TLS disable it for the holidays?

[dingbat]

Is the search function broken or did TLS disable it for the holidays?

Works fine for me

[anon168]

Is the search function broken or did TLS disable it for the holidays?

Works fine for me

Apparently not for the OP.

[84651846190]

Is the search function broken or did TLS disable it for the holidays?

Works fine for me

Apparently not for the OP.

Merry Christmas, anon168!

[dingbat]

Is the search function broken or did TLS disable it for the holidays?

Works fine for me

Apparently not for the OP.

sorry; I was on my phone and this wooshed over my head

[Old Gregg]

Is the search function broken or did TLS disable it for the holidays?

Works fine for me

Apparently not for the OP.

sorry; I was on my phone and this wooshed over my head

I'm sorry, what do you do again dingbat? Are you in Biglaw or in law school or in college or what?