Anyone else here applying for VAPs/fellowships? Forum

[Alexandria]

Thought I'd put a feeler out to see if anyone else out there is at this stage. Anyone else applying for VAPs/fellowships?

[Danteshek]

I'm applying for a fellowship that would fund me to get an LL.M. in Russia over two years, and then have me teach comparative international law in the U.S. for a year. There are very few qualified/willing American candidates who speak Russian, as you can probably imagine.

[Doorkeeper]

Not now, but I will be in a few years. I would love to hear about your experiences applying this year!

[Alexandria]

I'm applying for a fellowship that would fund me to get an LL.M. in Russia over two years, and then have me teach comparative international law in the U.S. for a year. There are very few qualified/willing American candidates who speak Russian, as you can probably imagine.

Interesting-- good luck! I actually speak some Russian, but it's not great. Plus I have family obligations.

I'm just applying for the typical U.S. VAPs/fellowships. Have had a couple good interviews, but that's it for now.

[Alexandria]

Mod, can you move this to legal employment?

[bk1]

Mod, can you move this to legal employment?

Sure thing.

[Anonymous User]

1) How many VAPs/fellowships have you applied to? Any idea on if there is an average number for applicants or is it much too individualized of a process to say a range with any confidence.

2) Thoughts on what was focused on most by schools? (Your school, your law school GPA, your scholarship and research agenda, your work experience, your faculty recommendations, etc.)

[Anonymous User]

Some people apply pretty broadly -- schools seem to like to contact you to let you know they are interested but haven't made a decision yet and to let them know if you have a deadline from anyone else. It's frustrating.

Other people go on the market for a tenure track position and then only apply for VAPs/fellowships as a backup plan.

Scholarship and research agenda are most important, and faculty recommendations are also very important. Law school, GPA, and basically anything else seem to be basically threshold matters. They help you be taken seriously as a candidate, but they won't get you all the way there. Schools will only hire you as a VAP/fellow if they believe you will be able to turn around a great job talk paper during your first year in the program and will be able to interview well enough/engage well enough during job talks to get hired.

[Danteshek]

I'm applying for a fellowship that would fund me to get an LL.M. in Russia over two years, and then have me teach comparative international law in the U.S. for a year. There are very few qualified/willing American candidates who speak Russian, as you can probably imagine.

Interesting-- good luck! I actually speak some Russian, but it's not great. Plus I have family obligations.

I'm just applying for the typical U.S. VAPs/fellowships. Have had a couple good interviews, but that's it for now.

I got it. $130,000 total for two years... Will get a degree in Civil Law.

[Alexandria]

I'm applying for a fellowship that would fund me to get an LL.M. in Russia over two years, and then have me teach comparative international law in the U.S. for a year. There are very few qualified/willing American candidates who speak Russian, as you can probably imagine.

Interesting-- good luck! I actually speak some Russian, but it's not great. Plus I have family obligations.

I'm just applying for the typical U.S. VAPs/fellowships. Have had a couple good interviews, but that's it for now.

I got it. $130,000 total for two years... Will get a degree in Civil Law.

Way to go! I'm doing the Yale PhD in Law.

[rad lulz]

Yall read that VAP Trap stuff over on TFL? It's sobering.

[Alexandria]

Yeah, and it is scary. But:

1. I've been in a firm 3 years and can't see myself doing it forever.
2. My dream is academia, and I've been given an amazing opportunity to try to pursue it.
3. The consensus among the committee at my law school who help with placement in academia is that Yale is going to work very hard to place its first class of PhD students.
4. I won't be going on the market until 2 1/2 years from now, so I'm hoping things will pick back up a little by then. Fingers crossed.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I think if you want to try for academia, the Yale Ph.D. program has got to be a pretty good place to try from. The market still sucks, but you're maximizing your chances.

[rad lulz]

3. The consensus among the committee at my law school who help with placement in academia is that Yale is going to work very hard to place its first class of PhD students.
4. I won't be going on the market until 2 1/2 years from now, so I'm hoping things will pick back up a little by then. Fingers crossed.

3 sounds legit

4 is probably not gonna happen. If anything I'm guessing there's gonna be drastic cuts in TT hiring as schools cut class sizes or close

[Anonymous User]

Is there a good database for finding the fellowships described?

[Alexandria]

Is there a good database for finding the fellowships described?

Not really, unfortunately. A lot of people use this list (I did), but it's a bit outdated. Even though it says it's the 2012 version, there is definitely some info that was already outdated when posted.

http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog ... s-for.html

[somewhatwayward]

Yall read that VAP Trap stuff over on TFL? It's sobering.

This got me very concerned...had never imagined that kind of situation. I am going to a firm but thought that if it wasn't a good fit or I got squeezed out or whatever, then I would apply to clerkships and then try to get into academia. But that guy with great credentials who struck out in academia and then couldn't get back into the private sector had me pretty worried. I know it's only one person, but I have to imagine it is not uncommon given the competition for these positions.

I do think the Yale PhD will be a decent buffer for that outcome, though. If you don't mind me asking, OP, what type of credentials do you need to get into the Yale PhD program? Is clerking a prereq?

[Alexandria]

I didn't clerk, but most or all of the others did (there are only 5 of us). I PMed you more info. I imagine we will all have bios up on the website this fall, like they do for the JSDs. Credentials seem to be the same as for fellowships, and my impression is that most/all of us also applied for VAPs/fellowships. The higher ranked your law school the better, great grades and faculty recommendations, probably at least one previous publication, interesting scholarly agenda

[Citizen Genet]

4. I won't be going on the market until 2 1/2 years from now, so I'm hoping things will pick back up a little by then. Fingers crossed.

4 is probably not gonna happen. If anything I'm guessing there's gonna be drastic cuts in TT hiring as schools cut class sizes or close

+1. A lot of students went to law school in 2009, 2010 thinking, "I'll ride out the bad economy; hopefully it will rebound." It didn't.

There's been a lag effect that is starting to hit academia. Applications are down almost 40% from 2010. I would not count on that number rebounding any time soon. As overall class sizes decrease, the number of faculty positions at schools is going to fall. Almost guaranteed you will see lower tier schools close their doors. Schools are going to go into holding patterns while they wait for applications to resume and while they benefit from inordinate competition for the few spaces available.

TL;DR: If you went to law school hoping to go into academia, graduating between now and 2016 is probably the worst situation to be in.

[worldtraveler]

Does anybody know anything about getting VAPs/fellowships to work at universities abroad? I can see myself wanting to do this in a couple years or so and it seems like something I would need to start planning early.

[Danteshek]

I'm applying for a fellowship that would fund me to get an LL.M. in Russia over two years, and then have me teach comparative international law in the U.S. for a year. There are very few qualified/willing American candidates who speak Russian, as you can probably imagine.

Interesting-- good luck! I actually speak some Russian, but it's not great. Plus I have family obligations.

I'm just applying for the typical U.S. VAPs/fellowships. Have had a couple good interviews, but that's it for now.

I got it. $130,000 total for two years... Will get a degree in Civil Law.

Way to go! I'm doing the Yale PhD in Law.

Cool. Turns out Lomonosov Moscow State University only has a magistratura in Corporate law (but with a strong emphasis on Civil Law). I have to go to Moscow in July to take an entrance exam... Not sure if I will use this experience to try to get into teaching... I have a tier two JD and an LLM from Georgetown. Not sure that will cut it on the academic market, even after this fellowship and even if I publish extensively... Just keeping an open mind amidst a great deal of uncertainty...

[Danteshek]

Re fellowships...

Mine is among the foreign fellowships listed on Michigan's website, but it is only awarded every 2-3 years...
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See also:
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