Post-offer questions Forum

[Anonymous User]

What're classy ways of approaching questions on (1) summer offer rates and what factors have resulted in former SAs getting no-offered, and (2) exit options from the firm?
Obviously, these are important considerations when making a decision, but these questions also seem to reveal a certain level of insecurity if not approached the right way. Not sure what the right way to approach them is, though.

[Anonymous User]

(1) Pretend like you're not socially awkward and ask the recruiting coordinator (usually a girl around your age) once the summer has gotten going and you know her a bit better.

(2) Don't ever ask that question. A possible exception to this rule is if you're asking an associate that you're absolute best buds with - someone who was your very good friend before you started working there. Another possible exception is that you could indirectly broach the subject and ask if any alumni of the firm have gone into big government positions like AG and such. I'd be really careful how you phrase that though. You really don't want them to know or think that you're planning to bail.

[rad lulz]

(1) Pretend like you're not socially awkward and ask the recruiting coordinator (usually a girl around your age) once the summer has gotten going and you know her a bit better.

(2) Don't ever ask that question. A possible exception to this rule is if you're asking an associate that you're absolute best buds with - someone who was your very good friend before you started working there. Another possible exception is that you could indirectly broach the subject and ask if any alumni of the firm have gone into big government positions like AG and such. I'd be really careful how you phrase that though. You really don't want them to know or think that you're planning to bail.

Agree with 2, but it's acceptable to ask the recruiting coordinator now about 1.

[spondee]

The second question is fine, too. Just be sensitive to context.

I'd recommend asking a sr associate in the practice group you're interested in. Maybe ask where their colleagues have left to. If you're nervous about giving the wrong impression, lead with questions re partnership - e.g., "do you hope to make partner?" "What do you think makes some associates succeed at becoming partner at Firm and not others?" "Although I hope to make partner ..."

[Icculus]

I asked the recruiting coordinator the first one during call back interviews and would sometimes ask associates what they noticed in previous years about offer rates, so it would be fine to ask now.

Don't ask the second question, law firms don't want associates who are already planning to leave the firm.

[Anonymous User]

It's very possible to ask about exit options in a nuanced and thoughtful way. I asked several associates something to the effect of "how many of the attorneys that started with you are still around? Of those that have left, what types of opportunities did they leave for?" While I generally got lots of vague answers ("oh, you know, the standard ones-- government, in-house, smaller firms, etc."), I've also gotten great, candid, useful answers as well.

For instance, at the firm I ultimately accepted at, one associate noted that while lots of former V10 associates lateral into the firm, she'd never seen anyone lateral out to other biglaw firms-- only to smaller firms or in-house positions. She noted that this was both indicative of their very weak up-or-out culture and evidence of the strong quality of life at the firm. I also drew the inference that perhaps associates from the firm weren't in as high of a demand as laterals, but that was less important to me since I don't see myself lateraling horizontally for better partnership prospects. Similarly, at another firm, an associate mentioned that a significant number of associates left to go in-house with banks and other financial institution clients, which I was not particularly into but others might have seen as a plus.

[Anonymous User]

It's very possible to ask about exit options in a nuanced and thoughtful way. I asked several associates something to the effect of "how many of the attorneys that started with you are still around? Of those that have left, what types of opportunities did they leave for?" While I generally got lots of vague answers ("oh, you know, the standard ones-- government, in-house, smaller firms, etc."), I've also gotten great, candid, useful answers as well.

For instance, at the firm I ultimately accepted at, one associate noted that while lots of former V10 associates lateral into the firm, she'd never seen anyone lateral out to other biglaw firms-- only to smaller firms or in-house positions. She noted that this was both indicative of their very weak up-or-out culture and evidence of the strong quality of life at the firm. I also drew the inference that perhaps associates from the firm weren't in as high of a demand as laterals, but that was less important to me since I don't see myself lateraling horizontally for better partnership prospects. Similarly, at another firm, an associate mentioned that a significant number of associates left to go in-house with banks and other financial institution clients, which I was not particularly into but others might have seen as a plus.

Yeah, this is pretty much how I wound up actually approaching the question.

[Dayan114]

(1) Pretend like you're not socially awkward and ask the recruiting coordinator (usually a girl around your age) once the summer has gotten going and you know her a bit better.

I'm sure you meant 'woman'.

[thegrayman]

I would be weary of asking about exit options before you even start. Firms want to make long-term investments (doesn't work out that way but that doesn't stop them from wanting to), also partners want to work with people they expect to be around a long time so that they can "groom" you so to speak, and use you on all their jobs. You often seen partners leaving and taking associates with them. Partners aren't going to want to pick you up if their presumption about you is that you are just trying to put in enough time to jump ship.

disclaimer- 2L, no biglaw experience but worked at big4 firm before law school for long enough to see partners make inquiries about whether you were planning on staying around for the foreseeable future before booking you on one of their clients.