LR & Art. III Clerkship + Low Grades Forum

[Anonymous User]

I've always been curious about this.

This person attended a T14. Law review. SA w/ offer from V10 firm. Top Art. III dist clerkship (CDCA/EDVA/NDIL/SDNY/DDC level). Top circuit clerkship (2/3/7/9). BUT not so good GPA (~3.3 on a 3.0 curve). Not a rich kid, no major connections. Don't ask me how he pulled this off because I don't know.

Coming out of the circuit clerkship now and doesn't want to go back to the V10 for important reasons. I always hear that clerks do well in finding post-clerkship big law employment but clerks tend to have really good grades too. What effect do middling grades have when the person has every other indicator of baller status? I don't know any clerks w/ low grades (or at least only this guy is fessing up). This is a real situation.

[fraught]

Doesn't that put him ~top 25% of his class?

[Anonymous User]

Doesn't that put him ~top 25% of his class?

Thread starter here. I have no idea but a 3.3 isn't looking too good compared to other clerks w/ his credentials who have like 3.6, 3.7, 3.9. No one's stopping traffic over a 3.3. I'd say he's like top third.

[Anonymous User]

*bump*

[Anonymous User]

a. egregious 3d Cir. trolling
b. top third at a T14 plus 2 federal clerkships will absolutely find something. not saying that he will have big law firms banging down his door (although that's a more likely outcome than unemployment), but he will definitely be able to secure big law employment. his counterparts with 3.6-3.9 grades are probably at schools with 3.3+ curves, fwiw.

[Anonymous User]

I think TLS vastly overlooks that the clerkship process is more personalized than firm hiring. Yes, a substantial number of judges go the high grade/LR route with a clerk pre-sort before the apps even reach the judge. Outside the uber competitive districts, other judges will thumb through everything themselves and look at each candidate regardless of school, grades, etc. They need to be able to work with this person closely. A lot of times it's interest driven. I was told that some judges immediately toss people with canned cover letters, no ties to the area, no commitment to public service, etc. It's a far more unpredictable process. I know of someone at median at a T1 who landed one with no connections. It's not as far fetched as TLS makes it out to be sometimes.

[Anonymous User]

a. egregious 3d Cir. trolling
b. top third at a T14 plus 2 federal clerkships will absolutely find something. not saying that he will have big law firms banging down his door (although that's a more likely outcome than unemployment), but he will definitely be able to secure big law employment. his counterparts with 3.6-3.9 grades are probably at schools with 3.3+ curves, fwiw.

Thread starter here. DGAF about circuit trolling. Just saying this guy's not clerking in buttfuck, alabama. Yea, other schools might have easier curves, but when you see 3.6 on one resume and 3.3 on the other, you assume one guy did a lot better than the other. Maybe not fair but true. You think he'll be able to get another V10?

Do people (apart from obsessed law students) even know about law school curves? I look through resumes for my firm sometimes and honestly, I don't read addendums or whatever else schools send along to rationalize their grads' low grades.

[fatduck]

a. egregious 3d Cir. trolling
b. top third at a T14 plus 2 federal clerkships will absolutely find something. not saying that he will have big law firms banging down his door (although that's a more likely outcome than unemployment), but he will definitely be able to secure big law employment. his counterparts with 3.6-3.9 grades are probably at schools with 3.3+ curves, fwiw.

Thread starter here. DGAF about circuit trolling. Just saying this guy's not clerking in buttfuck, alabama. Yea, other schools might have better curves but who knows that? When you see 3.6 on a resume and 3.3 on the other, you assume one guy did a lot better than the other. Maybe not fair but true. You think he'll be able to get another V10?

yes. i put his chances at approximately 68.348785349398%. next.

[Anonymous User]

a. egregious 3d Cir. trolling
b. top third at a T14 plus 2 federal clerkships will absolutely find something. not saying that he will have big law firms banging down his door (although that's a more likely outcome than unemployment), but he will definitely be able to secure big law employment. his counterparts with 3.6-3.9 grades are probably at schools with 3.3+ curves, fwiw.

Thread starter here. DGAF about circuit trolling. Just saying this guy's not clerking in buttfuck, alabama. Yea, other schools might have better curves but who knows that? When you see 3.6 on a resume and 3.3 on the other, you assume one guy did a lot better than the other. Maybe not fair but true. You think he'll be able to get another V10?

yes. i put his chances at approximately 68.348785349398%. next.

Threadstarter here. Don't be an asshole, you asshole. I'm asking bc common knowledge is that shitty/average grades get you dinged in this economy BUT law review/clerkship are gold. So what happens when gold meets lead in the same dude? He's asking me but I don't really know bc I graduated before the economy caved on you sorry fucks.

User has been warned.

[fatduck]

a. egregious 3d Cir. trolling
b. top third at a T14 plus 2 federal clerkships will absolutely find something. not saying that he will have big law firms banging down his door (although that's a more likely outcome than unemployment), but he will definitely be able to secure big law employment. his counterparts with 3.6-3.9 grades are probably at schools with 3.3+ curves, fwiw.

Thread starter here. DGAF about circuit trolling. Just saying this guy's not clerking in buttfuck, alabama. Yea, other schools might have better curves but who knows that? When you see 3.6 on a resume and 3.3 on the other, you assume one guy did a lot better than the other. Maybe not fair but true. You think he'll be able to get another V10?

yes. i put his chances at approximately 68.348785349398%. next.

Threadstarter here. Don't be an asshole, you asshole. I'm asking bc common knowledge is that shitty/average grades get you dinged in this economy BUT law review/clerkship are gold. So what happens when gold meets lead in the same dude? He's asking me but I don't really know bc I graduated before the economy caved on you sorry fucks.

i'm sorry, my post was insensitive. the economy is rough, and it's unfortunate that your friend doesn't have some kind of relatively costless mechanism for figuring out if firms are interested in hiring him.

[fraught]

Maybe I just haven't had enough of the TLS koolaid, but I really don't think a 3.3+ average is bad that no one would give him another look, particularly when that GPA would put him around the top third and on LR at a T14. He did a little better than you might expect, but it just doesn't seem like...outrageous and totally unbelievable.

[HeavenWood]

Doesn't that put him ~top 25% of his class?

Thread starter here. I have no idea but a 3.3 isn't looking too good compared to other clerks w/ his credentials who have like 3.6, 3.7, 3.9. No one's stopping traffic over a 3.3. I'd say he's like top third.

Top 1/3 from a T14 can definitely be in the running for an Article III clerkship. You're certainly less likely to get a clerkship than someone in the top 10%, but it's hardly unheard of. 3.0 is also a rather low curve for a T14 (~3.3 is more the norm), so a 3.3 at his school would be closer to a 3.6 at most of the others.

[dixiecupdrinking]

Your "friend" will be fine as long as he isn't the kind of guy who acts like an asshole on message boards.

[Anonymous User]

Your "friend" will be fine as long as he isn't the kind of guy who acts like an asshole on message boards.

Threadstarter here. Lucky this dude isn't you then.

[Anonymous User]

.

[Anonymous User]

I've always been curious about this.

This person attended a T14. Law review. SA w/ offer from V10 firm. Top Art. III dist clerkship (CDCA/EDVA/NDIL/SDNY/DDC level). Top circuit clerkship (2/3/7/9). BUT not so good GPA (~3.3 on a 3.0 curve). Not a rich kid, no major connections. Don't ask me how he pulled this off because I don't know.

Coming out of the circuit clerkship now and doesn't want to go back to the V10 for important reasons. I always hear that clerks do well in finding post-clerkship big law employment but clerks tend to have really good grades too. What effect do middling grades have when the person has every other indicator of baller status? I don't know any clerks w/ low grades (or at least only this guy is fessing up). This is a real situation.

Lol at 2/3/7/9. That is the most random combo I have seen yet.

[mandrewsf]

Is there a T14 on a 3.0 curve? Somehow I find that hard to believe.

[nixy]

not sure what's going on here, but if the V10, DCt, and COA were okay with this student's grades, pretty sure he'll be able to find some other job.

Also,

Is there a T14 on a 3.0 curve? Somehow I find that hard to believe.

me too.

[Anonymous User]

Is there a T14 on a 3.0 curve? Somehow I find that hard to believe.

I think Mich used to have the lowest traditional GPA curve. They changed it since 2012 though.

[Anonymous User]

I was top 1/3 (literally 32%) at a lower T14 with a 3.3 curve + LR. Went to a DC V10, D.Ct., and COA clerkship (not in flyover country but not on the prestigious CA3). I got interviews at virtually every big law firm I applied to post clerkship. Boutiques were a little bit more hit or miss but I don't have HYS credentials so this probably to be expected. Grades never seemed to be an issue.

[Anonymous User]

This thread is literally from 2012, things change lol—curves included.

[nixy]

Whoops, lol. Would like to see the OP come back and tell us where the friend ended up.

(Also I think a 3.0 curve would still have been low in 2012, but obviously that doesn’t matter now.)

[Anonymous User]

I was top 1/3 (literally 32%) at a lower T14 with a 3.3 curve + LR. Went to a DC V10, D.Ct., and COA clerkship (not in flyover country but not on the prestigious CA3). I got interviews at virtually every big law firm I applied to post clerkship. Boutiques were a little bit more hit or miss but I don't have HYS credentials so this probably to be expected. Grades never seemed to be an issue.

Know a girl at a T30 with similar stats to you (guessing around a 3.4 on a 3.3 curve, but LR, moot court, and SF V10) who easily got a clerkship handed to her and had the career office hounding her trying to get her to apply to another after her weird amount of success (at least based on her GPA). Other poster is right in pointing out how personalized this process is. So much is based on how personable you are, and just being a decent and curious person can get you so far.