The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls) Forum

[Anonymous User]

Legal Analyst - JREQ036243

(THOMSON REUTERS IN TEXAS)

https://toc.taleo.net/careersection/2/j ... JREQ036243

[vandalvideo]

I used a 2 page resume when I applied for PI jobs because I really wanted to highlight my relevant clinic experience and list them as jobs rather than just under my school. I also had several externships during law school and relevant pre-law school experience. Even just putting 1 or 2 lines under each position made it impossible to keep it on 1 page without using a small font and screwing with the margins.

How was the return on using a two page resume?

[Anonymous User]

I'm using a 2 page resume for my PI job search because I've had an internship almost every semester and clinic experience. I don't think it has affected anything negatively. I've gotten a good number of interviews and to the final rounds of a few fellowships/positions. During two or three interviews, I was complimented on my experience, which I couldn't have illustrated without those two pages (I tried).

[Holly Golightly]

I used a 2 page resume when I applied for PI jobs because I really wanted to highlight my relevant clinic experience and list them as jobs rather than just under my school. I also had several externships during law school and relevant pre-law school experience. Even just putting 1 or 2 lines under each position made it impossible to keep it on 1 page without using a small font and screwing with the margins.

How was the return on using a two page resume?

I got the perfect job, so I can't complain. And a lot of details from my clinics and pre law school job came up in interviews.

I agree with the general sentiment that resumes should be 1 page, but for PI and people with relevant experience, it can be different.

[CaptainLeela]

Welcome to TLS

[paraguayfargus]

Joining this thread.

Had a few OCI interviews 2L but didn't get a SA and ended up working for a pretty small firm.

So hard to try and focus on finals with this over my head...

[Lawst]

Class of 2014, finally out of the Vale, doing exactly what I want where I want. There is light at the end of the tunnel (and it's not necessarily a train). I went on a lot of shitty interviews, and worked for very little to stay afloat in the meantime. Keep up your spirits, guys, and just keep plugging away!

[Anonymous User]

Pharmaceutical Doc Review (Downtown Dallas)
compensation: $27/hour plus OT
Tower Legal Solutions is currently reviewing resumes for a document review project, expected to start the week of April 13th and run for 3-4 weeks. You will be expected to work approximately 50 hours per week, with flexibility for weekends if necessary. It will pay $27/hour PLUS TIME AND A HALF FOR ALL HOURS OVER 40.

[paraguayfargus]

Class of 2014, finally out of the Vale, doing exactly what I want where I want. There is light at the end of the tunnel (and it's not necessarily a train). I went on a lot of shitty interviews, and worked for very little to stay afloat in the meantime. Keep up your spirits, guys, and just keep plugging away!

If you don't mind my asking, how did you do it? I'm still a 3L but there hasn't been any sparks of life for months now...

[BlueLotus]

Class of 2014, finally out of the Vale, doing exactly what I want where I want. There is light at the end of the tunnel (and it's not necessarily a train). I went on a lot of shitty interviews, and worked for very little to stay afloat in the meantime. Keep up your spirits, guys, and just keep plugging away!

Congrats, Lawst!

[sd5289]

I got the perfect job, so I can't complain. And a lot of details from my clinics and pre law school job came up in interviews.

I agree with the general sentiment that resumes should be 1 page, but for PI and people with relevant experience, it can be different.

I also got my "perfect job," and I did so with a 1-page resume despite having 6+ years of WE prior to LS, 2 summer jobs, a volunteer position, several RA and TA positions, a clinic, honors, etc. I fit a lot of the LS specific info (clinic, honors, student organizations, and TA positions) underneath the LS name under "activities" and "honors" headings, and that seemed to work well. I reserved the work experience space for my summer jobs, my RA position (consolidated them into one thing and named the different professors), and my WE prior to LS. I agree that a lot of these details came up during my interviews for a job, so it's obviously beneficial to not short yourself of valuable WE. However, there's no reason to risk the knee-jerk "oh you have to be kidding me" reaction you'll likely get from an employer looking at hundreds (if not thousands) of resumes.

Also, I'm PI/Gov't bound, so even in this world, a 1-page resume from someone with a lot of relevant WE is possible. I remember hiring summer legal interns when I was working prior to LS, and I found at least 90-95% of the 2-page resumes that came across my desk to be completely unnecessary. I'm going to assume that employers for LTFT jobs feel the same.

[Tanicius]

I got the perfect job, so I can't complain. And a lot of details from my clinics and pre law school job came up in interviews.

I agree with the general sentiment that resumes should be 1 page, but for PI and people with relevant experience, it can be different.

I also got my "perfect job," and I did so with a 1-page resume despite having 6+ years of WE prior to LS, 2 summer jobs, a volunteer position, several RA and TA positions, a clinic, honors, etc. I fit a lot of the LS specific info (clinic, honors, student organizations, and TA positions) underneath the LS name under "activities" and "honors" headings, and that seemed to work well. I reserved the work experience space for my summer jobs, my RA position (consolidated them into one thing and named the different professors), and my WE prior to LS. I agree that a lot of these details came up during my interviews for a job, so it's obviously beneficial to not short yourself of valuable WE. However, there's no reason to risk the knee-jerk "oh you have to be kidding me" reaction you'll likely get from an employer looking at hundreds (if not thousands) of resumes.

Also, I'm PI/Gov't bound, so even in this world, a 1-page resume from someone with a lot of relevant WE is possible. I remember hiring summer legal interns when I was working prior to LS, and I found at least 90-95% of the 2-page resumes that came across my desk to be completely unnecessary. I'm going to assume that employers for LTFT jobs feel the same.

OMG just stop.

These are the two things we've known since the beginning of this discussion:

1.) There is no objectively good reason an employer should automatically punish a resume that is longer than one page.

2.) Employers unpredictably sometimes do punish applicants with resumes that are longer than one page, regardless of the need for more than one page.

[sd5289]

These are the two things we've I've known since the beginning of this discussion:

1.) There is no objectively good reason an employer should automatically punish a resume that is longer than one page.

2.) Employers unpredictably sometimes do punish applicants with resumes that are longer than one page, regardless of the need for more than one page.

Fixed that for you.

Happy for you, but there have been several pages going back-and-forth on this, which indicates there are some who think a 2-pager is worth the irrational and unpredictable risk of being thrown immediately into the garbage. In the Vale, this isn't a worthwhile risk.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Sure, some people think it is worth that risk. That's up to them.

[Tanicius]

These are the two things we've I've known since the beginning of this discussion:

1.) There is no objectively good reason an employer should automatically punish a resume that is longer than one page.

2.) Employers unpredictably sometimes do punish applicants with resumes that are longer than one page, regardless of the need for more than one page.

Fixed that for you.

Happy for you, but there have been several pages going back-and-forth on this, which indicates there are some who think a 2-pager is worth the irrational and unpredictable risk of being thrown immediately into the garbage. In the Vale, this isn't a worthwhile risk.

That's the whole point of what I just said. People who judge a resume for being two pages are almost certainly being unfair to the applicant. It's very, very dumb to trash an application specifically because the resume has two pages. But employers are often assholes, so it's a risk.

There is seriously nothing more to say on this topic. The last three pages are nothing but competing anecdotes that establish that it is a risk that sometimes pays off and sometimes doesn't.

[shredderrrrrr]

I got the perfect job, so I can't complain. And a lot of details from my clinics and pre law school job came up in interviews.

I agree with the general sentiment that resumes should be 1 page, but for PI and people with relevant experience, it can be different.

I also got my "perfect job," and I did so with a 1-page resume despite having 6+ years of WE prior to LS, 2 summer jobs, a volunteer position, several RA and TA positions, a clinic, honors, etc. I fit a lot of the LS specific info (clinic, honors, student organizations, and TA positions) underneath the LS name under "activities" and "honors" headings, and that seemed to work well. I reserved the work experience space for my summer jobs, my RA position (consolidated them into one thing and named the different professors), and my WE prior to LS. I agree that a lot of these details came up during my interviews for a job, so it's obviously beneficial to not short yourself of valuable WE. However, there's no reason to risk the knee-jerk "oh you have to be kidding me" reaction you'll likely get from an employer looking at hundreds (if not thousands) of resumes.

Also, I'm PI/Gov't bound, so even in this world, a 1-page resume from someone with a lot of relevant WE is possible. I remember hiring summer legal interns when I was working prior to LS, and I found at least 90-95% of the 2-page resumes that came across my desk to be completely unnecessary. I'm going to assume that employers for LTFT jobs feel the same.

OMG just stop.

These are the two things we've known since the beginning of this discussion:

1.) There is no objectively good reason an employer should automatically punish a resume that is longer than one page.

2.) Employers unpredictably sometimes do punish applicants with resumes that are longer than one page, regardless of the need for more than one page.

The only thing we've known since the beginning of this discussion is that people who use one page think you should use one page and people who use two pages don't think there is a problem with using two pages (and that the opinions aren't likely going to change).

[shredderrrrrr]

Since this presumably got missed at the bottom of the last page, I'll re-ask in hopes of an answer.

You get 2+ pages if you A.) Have 5+ years WE or B.) were published. Thats it, don't try to recreate the wheel here.

I did a ton of stuff in LS and I ended up putting clinics down under activities instead of a full time job. I still got asked about them in interviews and could explain the skills I developed. Seriously, the 2 pages may do more harm than good unless you meet one of the two requirements above. The hiring partners at my old firm said they didn't ding anyone for it, it was just annoying. You don't wanna start your first impression off with "This guy/girl is annoying."

Care to elaborate on B? Does "published" include something like a Note? Because I had two articles published while in LS and just have: "Publications: Cite 1; Cite 2."

[A. Nony Mouse]

I think that falls under publications, but I think how you've handled it is completely fine. Publications might push you over two pages but probably don't have to - I think it's especially likely if you're in IP with an advanced STEM degree and have a bunch of scholarly publications in whatever scientific field relevant to your legal expertise.

[shredderrrrrr]

I think that falls under publications, but I think how you've handled it is completely fine. Publications might push you over two pages but probably don't have to - I think it's especially likely if you're in IP with an advanced STEM degree and have a bunch of scholarly publications in whatever scientific field relevant to your legal expertise.

Alright, thanks! I was worried I was supposed to have some elaborate section outlining my publications in detail.

[Anonymous User]

These are the two things we've I've known since the beginning of this discussion:

1.) There is no objectively good reason an employer should automatically punish a resume that is longer than one page.

2.) Employers unpredictably sometimes do punish applicants with resumes that are longer than one page, regardless of the need for more than one page.

Fixed that for you.

Happy for you, but there have been several pages going back-and-forth on this, which indicates there are some who think a 2-pager is worth the irrational and unpredictable risk of being thrown immediately into the garbage. In the Vale, this isn't a worthwhile risk.

That's the whole point of what I just said. People who judge a resume for being two pages are almost certainly being unfair to the applicant. It's very, very dumb to trash an application specifically because the resume has two pages. But employers are often assholes, so it's a risk.

There is seriously nothing more to say on this topic. The last three pages are nothing but competing anecdotes that establish that it is a risk that sometimes pays off and sometimes doesn't.

I think you are kind of missing the point here. We are not talking about lateral or 2L or 1L job prospects, we are in the vale here. Everything really counts at this point when you are facing being jobless at graduation.

As an employer, I think it is VERY telling when a recent grad cannot get their resume on 1 page with few exceptions. Of course, it depends on the situation but in my mind it is a lack of pre-planning on the most important document of yours that I am going to see. It is not that I have to flip the page, it is that you do not know what is important.

I think Holly pointed out a great exception to this.

We are all trying to help each other here and that is why there are three pages of this. It is very important to the search and absolutely nothing to be flippant about

[A. Nony Mouse]

But is there anything more to say about it, given that neither side is going to change their minds?

[Anonymous User]

What kind of stats do you need to transfer to a lower ranked (TT/TTT) school?

[El Pollito]

What kind of stats do you need to transfer to a lower ranked (TT/TTT) school?

oh hey bluelotus

[Anonymous User]

So, I somehow managed to snag a clerkship interview, and I was wondering if there is anything I need to know about the interview that might make it different from a firm interview.

In addition, I was a RA two years ago, but I did not include it on the resume for a few reasons, however now I am working with the same professor on another article, and I was wondering if it would be appropriate to bring in an updated resume to highlight that previous RA experience and what I am working on now.

Finally, if you are only on moot court or trial team for 1 year, do you have to specifically indicate the years you were on the team or can you just leave it blank.

[Anonymous User]

Class of 2014, finally out of the Vale, doing exactly what I want where I want. There is light at the end of the tunnel (and it's not necessarily a train). I went on a lot of shitty interviews, and worked for very little to stay afloat in the meantime. Keep up your spirits, guys, and just keep plugging away!

congrats!!!

fellow 2014-er hoping i can leave the vale soon, too. after not going on a single interview for over 2 months, i've had 4 in the last three weeks...fingers crossed.