The Big D Forum

[admisionquestion]

Hows the law situation in the Detroit?

Obviously Detroit as a whole city is struggling and the legal industry is struggling? Does it follow that Detroit is REALLY bad for law? If its where I want to live, any thoughts?

[rad lulz]

The Big D = Dallas. HTH.

[jeeptiger09]

The Big D = Dallas. HTH.

Also, excellent spell job in username.

[keg411]

Not sure if you're talking BigLaw or not, but if you're from there and go to UM, you will definitely get something in Detroit. Additionally, a ton of Michigan firms are coming to OCI this year that haven't in years past, so I'm guessing the situation isn't totally dire.

[NotMyRealName09]

There are large firms that pay six figures to fresh out of law school associates. I work at one. You have to have good grades (generally), legit ties to the D-town area, and be personable. Most large firms in the area are fairly diversified, with offices in other states and different practice areas, which reflects the reality that to survive, a firm has to either grow or get eaten.

The economy hit some large firms differently than others. Of course, most were tied to the auto industry, and those that failed to stay diverse took a big hit and may have laid off associates / de-equitized partners / hired less SAs / didn't extend as many offers (or any at all). But, that storm seems to have passed, and firms now seem to conduct summer programs similar to before (but most are 10 weeks now - I had a 12 week summer program in summer 2009).

My firm seems to be doing well. And it is a buyer's market for law firms seeking law students - for example, UofM students can't find work in NY anymore, so they now look closer to home. That probably crowds out the market for other Michigan-based law schools to some degree, but we hire from all the local schools (not Cooley though).

More generally, Wayne County is a VERY Plaintiff friendly jurisdiction, so if you want to become a Plaintiff's attorney, Detroit isn't a bad place to work (but there are a TON of Plaintiff's attorneys).

All that said, I must say that my views must be understood in context - I work at a large firm in commercial litigation. The firm is also strong in bankruptcy, corporate, municipal, and healthcare, among other smaller specialties. I really can't speak to the economic strength of small law firms - I just don't know about their financials.

I can say that while I was in Law School (went to MSU College of Law, graduated 2010), I'm aware of highly qualified individuals (grades like mine, Law Review, Dean King Scholars, etc.) who could not secure a job like mine. People who were not top of the class probably had difficulty securing decent paying jobs. Not to mention that Cooley FLOODS the market with incompetent attorneys feeding from the bottom.

Thoughts? Get excellent grades and work hard during law school. And understand with eyes wide open - as it is everywhere now, Law School is a GAMBLE - you might strike it rich, but you could also lose your shirt. And with all gambling, the odds generally are not in your favor.

[NotMyRealName09]

The Big D = Dallas. HTH.

Maybe to you. I knew exactly what Big D meant - DEEEETROIT. (snide remark deleted).

[turbotong]

I believe the rest of the usa considers:
"Motor City" = Detroit
"Big D" = Dallas

[admisionquestion]

Midwest says big d is Detroit. France says big d is Denmark. I say y'all are annoying since I clarified the city in the post text.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aktLRiWXfqg

[lobolawyer]

Nobody from Detroit - or any place else for that matter - calls Detroit the big D, which is Dallas. The D, Motor City, D-Town are commonly used monikers for Detroit.

[Gecko of Doom]

Born and raised in the midwest. When I saw "The Big D," I thought "Dallas."

Otherwise, I have nothing meaningful to add to this discussion.

[eandy]

Came here for this

[midwestls]

There are large firms that pay six figures to fresh out of law school associates. I work at one. You have to have good grades (generally), legit ties to the D-town area, and be personable. Most large firms in the area are fairly diversified, with offices in other states and different practice areas, which reflects the reality that to survive, a firm has to either grow or get eaten.

The economy hit some large firms differently than others. Of course, most were tied to the auto industry, and those that failed to stay diverse took a big hit and may have laid off associates / de-equitized partners / hired less SAs / didn't extend as many offers (or any at all). But, that storm seems to have passed, and firms now seem to conduct summer programs similar to before (but most are 10 weeks now - I had a 12 week summer program in summer 2009).

My firm seems to be doing well. And it is a buyer's market for law firms seeking law students - for example, UofM students can't find work in NY anymore, so they now look closer to home. That probably crowds out the market for other Michigan-based law schools to some degree, but we hire from all the local schools (not Cooley though).

More generally, Wayne County is a VERY Plaintiff friendly jurisdiction, so if you want to become a Plaintiff's attorney, Detroit isn't a bad place to work (but there are a TON of Plaintiff's attorneys).

All that said, I must say that my views must be understood in context - I work at a large firm in commercial litigation. The firm is also strong in bankruptcy, corporate, municipal, and healthcare, among other smaller specialties. I really can't speak to the economic strength of small law firms - I just don't know about their financials.

I can say that while I was in Law School (went to MSU College of Law, graduated 2010), I'm aware of highly qualified individuals (grades like mine, Law Review, Dean King Scholars, etc.) who could not secure a job like mine. People who were not top of the class probably had difficulty securing decent paying jobs. Not to mention that Cooley FLOODS the market with incompetent attorneys feeding from the bottom.

Thoughts? Get excellent grades and work hard during law school. And understand with eyes wide open - as it is everywhere now, Law School is a GAMBLE - you might strike it rich, but you could also lose your shirt. And with all gambling, the odds generally are not in your favor.

Also a 2010 grad, also work in the D for a large firm, and I'll echo everything above. I can tell I'm at a different firm, but the market is very good for us right now. We've been steadily hiring all our summers and adding laterals for the last two years.

There are about 10 large firms that can be counted on to hire all or the majority of their summer associates, but the summer classes are generally smaller than similarly sized metro areas. My firm has five summer associates. The most I've heard of this summer is eight.

More info here:

http://milawyersweekly.com/wp-files/llf/millf_2011.pdf

[tedalbany]

But see 1:20 of "Mercy" by Kanye West. In this piece, Big Sean proclaims "I gave her that D, cuz that's where I was born and raised in". He is referring to Detroit. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Sean. While, at first glance, it may appear Big Sean is referring to Detroit as just "that D" instead of "The big D" - the fact that it is a double entendre necessarily implies he is referring to a "big D". Therefore it only logically follows that Big Sean, a celebrity with considerable impact on popular opinions, further propagates that Detroit is indeed "The Big D".

[admisionquestion]

But see 1:20 of "Mercy" by Kanye West. In this piece, Big Sean proclaims "I gave her that D, cuz that's where I was born and raised in". He is referring to Detroit. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Sean. While, at first glance, it may appear Big Sean is referring to Detroit as just "that D" instead of "The big D" - the fact that it is a double entendre necessarily implies he is referring to a "big D". Therefore it only logically follows that Big Sean, a celebrity with considerable impact on popular opinions, further propagates that Detroit is indeed "The Big D".

Literally could not have put it better. In fact given that I've been listening to mercy non-stop i'm guessing that was why i titled the thread big d.

ALSO:

It is the weeping and the moaning and the gnashing of teeth, GNAH GNAH...

[BallHog]

Confused as to why you guys are fighting over the title "The Big D..."

[patrickd139]

The Big D = Dallas. HTH.

[patrickd139]

Confused as to why you guys are fighting over the title "The Big D..."

Mostly because discourse regarding teh job market in DeTTTTroiTTTT is less engaging.

[BallHog]

Confused as to why you guys are fighting over the title "The Big D..."

Mostly because discourse regarding teh job market in DeTTTTroiTTTT is less engaging.

Haha. This is a title a city should try and stay far away from.

On the bright side, at least it isn't "The Little D."

[flcath]

I did a CB at Honigman, and every attorney I met (sans the hiring partner, who is blonde-haired spray-tanned guy who lateralled from Kirkland Chicago) was from the Detroit metro area. I know a girl who is SA-ing there now who's from North Michigan, where there are no cities for her to run back to.

I just think it's an environment that no one will ever believe you really want to live/stay in unless you're from there. FWIW, if you haven't spent time in the area--and I love to be contrarian, so I hate to side with popular opinion here--it really is quite terrible.

[midwestls]

I did a CB at Honigman, and every attorney I met (sans the hiring partner, who is blonde-haired spray-tanned guy who lateralled from Kirkland Chicago) was from the Detroit metro area. I know a girl who is SA-ing there now who's from North Michigan, where there are no cities for her to run back to.

I just think it's an environment that no one will ever believe you really want to live/stay in unless you're from there. FWIW, if you haven't spent time in the area--and I love to be contrarian, so I hate to side with popular opinion here--it really is quite terrible.

I was fortunate enough to see about 2/3rds of major American cities in a previous career. One thing I learned is that it's really difficult to judge a place in short spurts. Michigan in general and Southeast Michigan in particular have challenges, but Michigan has a tremendous quality of life if that's what you're looking for. Economy is actually pretty good right now, it just doesn't show yet because the down was so low. It's a to-each-his-own kind of thing. Your impression is undoubtedly right for you, but I find non-natives are generally impressed with what the place has to offer once they get past the fact that Detroit is a black hole of need.