character & fitness situation Forum

[diatribe]

A tad sorry for necro-ing this now 6 year old thread but I had to dispel the misinformation about California's C&F. I came across this while curious about my own disclosure requirements for CA and was alarmed by what I read, up until I actually did the research myself using the C&F application.

so heres the deal, my state's bar says:

"Traffic violations which must be reported under this question include Failure to Appear, Driving Without a License, Driving with a Suspended License, and Reckless Driving, as well as all traffic violations that resulted in a misdemeanor or felony conviction."

we also had to turn in a copy of our driving records.

i received 2 photoradar traffic tickets after submitting my application. they are not on my driving record because it was my girlfriend's car. do i need to update my application?

Nope, unless you plead guilty to them, which hopefully you didn't since photo radar tickets are a joke.

by paying the fine, OP has pleaded guilty and thus, has pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor that requires disclosure. OP omitted the following phrase from the disclosure requirements: "IN ANSWERING THE FOLLOWING QUESTIONS, YOU MUST INCLUDE ALL SUCH INCIDENTS AND CONVICTIONS, NO MATTER HOW MINOR THE INCIDENT."

Traffic violations MUST be disclosed for California C&F if you paid the fine!

False and extremely misleading. You quoted language purporting to clarify "THE FOLLOWING QUESTIONS." To quote that language without including "THE FOLLOWING QUESTIONS" makes your point more misleading than anything. Here are "THE FOLLOWING QUESTIONS" regarding California C&F convictions:

9.1 Have you ever been convicted of the violation of a misdemeanor or felony?
As used herein, a conviction includes a plea of guilty or nolo contendere, or a verdict or finding of guilt, regardless of whether sentence is imposed by the court.
9.2. Are you awaiting final adjudication for any investigation or arrest?
9.3 Have you ever been held in contempt of court?
9.4 Have you ever been granted immunity in lieu of criminal prosecution?

If YES to any of the above questions, please complete FORM 2. Make as many COPIES as you need. Attach a copy of the police report, complaint, indictment, trial disposition, sentence, appeal, probation report and certified copy of conviction, if any.

California's C&F application does not seem to require disclosure of run of the mill traffic incidents, like speeding, even if you were convicted of that incident. The key is to look at the language of the actual disclosure questions asked. They ask about misdemeanors, felonies, contempt, immunity, and any pending cases for an investigation or arrest. The CA clarification also adds that "Traffic violations which must be reported under this question include Failure to Appear, Driving Without a License, Driving with a Suspended License, and Reckless Driving, as well as all traffic violations that resulted in a misdemeanor or felony conviction."

So although the language says "NO MATTER HOW MINOR," that is referring to the context of the questions, which include felonies, misdemeanors, and the specifically named traffic infractions.

Serious question but what if I have over 30 tickets for various motor vehicle infractions and three reckless driving charges. Almost all the infractions were dropped in court (I think about 5 were paid for), and all reckless driving charges were dropped. Also, and I am being serious, several misdemeanor arrests, but again all were dismissed. I just want an answer as to whether you guys think this will be a C&F issue and I won't be answering questions as to how I managed to get all these fantastic charges.

for california, you don't need to disclose infractions that were charged and dropped. nor will you need to disclose arrests that did not result in convictions. thus, those will not be an issue.

however, if you paid any of the tickets, then you were convicted of a misdemeanor and will need to be disclosed. so you were likely convicted of 5 misdemeanors which may pose a problem.

The last part is also false and misleading. Paying for infractions does not convert that infraction to a misdemeanor in California- I'm not sure where you got this notion. However, the first part is more accurate, non convictions do not need to be reported because (first of all read the language of the C&F asking only about convictions) a non-conviction means you didn't do anything (i.e. innocent until proven guilty). California's questions do ask about investigations or arrests pending adjudication, so if anything, pay infractions off sooner so they wouldn't arguably fall under that disclosure rule.

TL;DR don't freak out, like I did, reading this zulu guy's false information regarding California C&F

i'm not giving legal advice. i recently applied to california c&f as well and was explicitly told that all traffic violations, no matter how minor, must be disclosed.

It's telling that this poster was anonymous and that the information provided is contradicting the express questions asked by the California C&F application. If I had to put money on it, I'd guess this anonymous poster was zulu, trying to add credibility to his previous posts.

By way of example, if a prospective employer asked you whether you've ever stolen from a previous employer, would you volunteer that you got a speeding ticket? If that prospective employer asked you whether you have any misdemeanors or felony convictions, would you volunteer that you were arrested for a felony but found not guilty? If that prospective employer asked you whether you have any misdemeanor, felony convictions, or specifically named infraction convictions, would you disclose a not specifically named infraction?

End of necro bump

[tier4_partner]

disclose. in many states, traffic tickets are considered misdemeanors (esp. red light tickets). by paying the fine and not contesting in court, you have pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor. it is easy for the bar to find out about traffic offenses via driving records; by not disclosing you will likely be denied admission for omissions on your application.

although the examples given on what traffic offenses need to be disclosed do not include speeding or failing to stop at red lights, they do not include offenses such as DUI either. it is pretty clear that DUIs would need to be disclosed.

This is just 100 percent wrong.