Median Penn Bid List Critique Forum

[Anonymous User]

I'm median (probably a little above) with relevant work experience. I have ironclad ties to Philadelphia, which is my first choice, followed by London and NYC. I'm also doing the California regional OCI for San Francisco and plan to "mass mail" some more firms out there so I haven't included any on this list so I can save my bids. I tried not to be either too aggressive or too conservative with my list. I'm not entirely sure what I want to do yet -- but I do know that I want/need BigLaw. Getting some sort of offer in my hand is my first goal. I've listed the firms, city, and number of interview slots, in the order I plan on bidding them. Any and all advice and input is much appreciative.

Also, how do people feel about interviewing with the same firm at multiple offices? Doesn't this make it more difficult to demonstrate to them that you are dedicated to a particular location/office? Thoughts and feelings on doing this?

1.) Saul Ewing LLP -- Philly -- 20 (Shared with 2 other offices)
2.) freshfields bruckhaus deringer LLP -- London -- 40 (Shared with 4 other offices)
3.) Dechert LLP -- London -- 20
4.) Allen & Overy LLP -- London -- 20
5.) Kasowitz Benson Torres & Friedman LLP -- NYC -- 20
6.) Linklaters LLP -- NYC -- 40
7.) katten muchin rosenman llp -- NYC -- 20
8.) Shearman & Sterling LLP -- NYC -- 80
9.) Stradley Ronon Stevens & Young, LLP -- Philly -- 20
10.) Reed Smith -- Philly -- 20
11.) Cozen O'Connor -- Philly -- 40
12.) Drinker Biddle & Reath LLP -- Philly -- 40
13.) blank rome llp -- Philly -- 40
14.) duane morris llp -- Philly -- 60
15.) Morgan, Lewis & Bockius LLP -- Philly -- 60
16.) Baker & Hostetler LLP -- NYC -- 20
17.) sidley austin llp -- NYC -- 40
18.) ballard spahr llp -- Philly -- 57
19.) paul hastings llp -- NYC -- 40
20.) Kaye Scholer LLP -- NYC -- 40
21.) Stroock & Stroock & Lavan LLP -- NYC -- 60
22.) Proskauer LLP -- NYC -- 60
23.) Pepper Hamilton LLP -- Philly -- 80
24.) Dechert LLP -- Philly -- 80
25.) Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft LLP -- NYC -- 100
26.) Manko, Gold, Katcher & Fox, LLP -- Philly Burbs -- 20
27.) Archer & Greiner, P.C. -- Philly Burbs -- 20
28.) fox rothschild llp -- Philly -- 20 (Shared with 7 other offices)
29.) Cravath, Swaine & Moore LLP -- NYC -- 48
30.) K&L Gates LLP -- Pittsburgh -- 20 (Shared with 4 other offices)
31.) Dechert LLP -- NYC -- 60
32.) Schnader Harrison Segal & Lewis LLP -- Philly 40
33.) clifford chance US LLP -- NYC -- 64
34.) Cahill Gordon & Reindel LLP -- NYC -- 60
35.) Fried, Frank, Harris, Shriver & Jacobson LLP -- NYC -- 60
36.) Milbank, Tweed, Hadley & McCloy LLP -- NYC -- 80
37.) Schulte Roth & Zabel LLP -- NYC -- 80
38.) Perkins Coie LLP -- Portland -- 20 (Shared with 4 other offices)
39.) dla piper -- Baltimore -- 20 (Shared with 2 other offices)
40.) White & Case LLP -- NYC -- 60
41.) Willkie Farr & Gallagher LLP -- NYC -- 60
42.) Social Security Administration, Office of the General Counsel -- Philly -- 7
43.) Jones Day -- Pittsburgh -- 20 (Shared with 8 other offices)
44.) Morgan, Lewis & Bockius LLP -- Pittsburgh -- 4
45.) Reed Smith -- Pittsburgh -- 10
46.) Thorp Reed & Armstrong, LLP -- Pittsburgh -- 9
47.) fox rothschild llp -- Philly Burbs -- 20 (Shared)
48.) Fox Rothschild LLP -- Philly Burbs -- 20 (Shared)
49.) Irell & Manella LLP -- LA -- 20
50.) Proskauer LLP -- Boston -- 20
51.) Winston & Strawn LLP -- NYC -- 35
52.) Nutter McClennen & Fish LLP -- Boston -- 20
53.) Mintz, Levin, Cohn, Ferris, Glovsky and Popeo, P.C. --Boston -- 20
54.) goodwin procter llp -- Boston -- 20
55.) Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom LLP -- London -- 20
56.) WilmerHale LLP -- Boston -- 20
57.) dla piper -- Baltimore -- 20 (Shared)
58.) Miles & Stockbridge P.C. -- Baltimore -- 20
59.) O'Melveny & Myers LLP -- LA -- 20
60.) O'Melveny & Myers LLP -- New York -- 40

Hey everyone, thanks a TON for all of the input! It's been greatly helpful. After considering all of your advice and doing some more research, how does this slightly revised list look to the eyes? If anyone has some more thoughts on which NY firms I should bid, that would be much appreciated, too. I placed four NYC firms in my top ten with decent class sizes, but a limited number of interview slots. I have Kasowitz first because I’m possibly leaning towards litigation and they only have 20 spots. I figure they and Sidley and Linklaters should be targets, while Kaye is more of a “safety”? I then list the Philly firms and then mostly NYC firms. And anyone think I land a chance of winning a bid on Shearman and/or Schulte where I have them? Both of those firms interest me, but I have them lower because of the high number of interview slots they have.

Also, I have a lot of reaches (Cravath, Weil, etc, etc) at the bottom because they have seemingly a lot of interview slots considering their prestige. I figure that once I get towards the bottom of my list that I’ll be lucky to get any sort of interview, so why not since by then all of the firms I’m more of a “match” for will probably be filled up. I also added some firms/offices from other cities thinking roughly along the same lines. I may not have ties and my chances of landing something from them may be weak, but if I can snag any sort of interview with my 48th or 51st bids, then it’s better than nothing.

Finally, for some more specific background about me, I worked as a paralegal at a NLJ250 firm and went to undergrad in Philly. Also, my 1L grades were: A-, B-, B+, B+, B+, B, A-, A-. Still unsure about journals/LR, but I did participate in the writing competition so I should land some journal, though I’m not counting on LR, obviously.

Kasowitz Benson Torres & Friedman LLP – 20 – NYC
Stradley Ronon Stevens & Young, LLP -- 20 -- Philly
freshfields bruckhaus deringer LLP -- 40 -- London
Dechert LLP -- 20 -- London
Allen & Overy LLP -- 20 -- London
Linklaters LLP – 40 – NYC
Kaye Scholer LLP -- 40 -- NYC
sidley austin llp -- 40 -- NYC
blank rome llp -- 40 -- Philly
Cozen O'Connor -- 40 -- Philly
Drinker Biddle & Reath LLP -- 40 -- Philly
Schnader Harrison Segal & Lewis LLP -- 40 -- Philly
duane morris llp -- 60 -- Philly
ballard spahr llp -- 57 -- Philly
Dechert LLP -- 80 -- Philly
Stroock & Stroock & Lavan LLP 60 – NYC
Proskauer LLP -- 60 -- NYC
Shearman & Sterling LLP -- 80 -- NYC
Schulte Roth & Zabel LLP -- 80 -- NYC
Pepper Hamilton LLP -- 80 – Philly
Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft LLP -- 100 -- NYC
Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom LLP -- 20 -- London
paul hastings llp -- 40 -- NYC
White & Case LLP -- 60 -- NYC
Cahill Gordon & Reindel LLP -- 60 -- NYC
Fried, Frank, Harris, Shriver & Jacobson LLP -- 60 -- NYC
clifford chance US LLP -- 64 -- NYC
Willkie Farr & Gallagher LLP -- 60 -- NYC
Reed Smith 10 -- Pittsburgh
Thorp Reed & Armstrong, LLP – 9 – Pittsburgh
K&L Gates LLP -- 20 -- Pittsburgh
Jones Day -- 20 -- Pittsburgh
Fox Rothschild LLP -- 20 -- Philly (Not particularly interested after doing some more research, which is why I have them bidded so low even though they are a big Philly firm).
Manko, Gold, Katcher & Fox, LLP -- 20 -- Bala Cynwyd
Perkins Coie LLP – 20 – Portland
DLA Piper -- 20 -- Baltimore
Proskauer LLP -- 20 -- Boston
Cravath, Swaine & Moore LLP -- 48 -- NYC
Winston & Strawn LLP -- 35 -- NYC
Sidley Austin LLP -- 20 -- LA
Nutter McClennen & Fish LLP -- 20 -- Boston
Mintz, Levin, Cohn, Ferris, Glovsky and Popeo, P.C. -- 20 -- Boston
goodwin procter llp -- 20 -- Boston
DLA Piper -- 20 -- Baltimore
Miles & Stockbridge P.C. -- 20 -- Baltimore
Archer & Greiner, P.C. -- 20 -- Philly Burbs
Baker & Hostetler LLP -- 20 -- LA
O'Melveny & Myers LLP -- 20 -- DC
O'Melveny & Myers LLP -- 20 -- LA
O'Melveny & Myers LLP -- 40 -- NYC
Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison LLP -- NYC
Simpson Thacher & bartlett llp – NYC
Weil, Gotshal & Manges LLP – NYC
Sullivan & Cromwell LLP – NYC
Milbank, Tweed, Hadley & McCloy LLP – NYC
Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP – NYC
Conrad O'Brien PC – 20 – Philly

[itbdvorm]

I'm median (probably a little above) with relevant work experience. I have ironclad ties to Philadelphia, which is my first choice, followed by London and NYC. I'm also doing the California regional OCI for San Francisco and plan to "mass mail" some more firms out there so I haven't included any on this list so I can save my bids. I tried not to be either too aggressive or too conservative with my list. I'm not entirely sure what I want to do yet -- but I do know that I want/need BigLaw. Getting some sort of offer in my hand is my first goal. I've listed the firms, city, and number of interview slots, in the order I plan on bidding them. Any and all advice and input is much appreciative.

Also, how do people feel about interviewing with the same firm at multiple offices? Doesn't this make it more difficult to demonstrate to them that you are dedicated to a particular location/office? Thoughts and feelings on doing this?

1.) Saul Ewing LLP -- Philly -- 20 (Shared with 2 other offices)
2.) Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer LLP -- London -- 40 (Shared with 4 other offices)
3.) Dechert LLP -- London -- 20
4.) Allen & Overy LLP -- London -- 20
5.) Kasowitz Benson Torres & Friedman LLP -- NYC -- 20
6.) Linklaters LLP -- NYC -- 40
7.) Katten Muchin Rosenman LLP -- NYC -- 20
8.) Shearman & Sterling LLP -- NYC -- 80
9.) Stradley Ronon Stevens & Young, LLP -- Philly -- 20
10.) Reed Smith -- Philly -- 20
11.) Cozen O'Connor -- Philly -- 40
12.) Drinker Biddle & Reath LLP -- Philly -- 40
13.) Blank Rome LLP -- Philly -- 40
14.) Duane Morris LLP -- Philly -- 60
15.) Morgan, Lewis & Bockius LLP -- Philly -- 60
16.) Baker & Hostetler LLP -- NYC -- 20
17.) Sidley Austin LLP -- NYC -- 40
18.) Ballard Spahr LLP -- Philly -- 57
19.) Paul Hastings LLP -- NYC -- 40
20.) Kaye Scholer LLP -- NYC -- 40
21.) Stroock & Stroock & Lavan LLP -- NYC -- 60
22.) Proskauer LLP -- NYC -- 60
23.) Pepper Hamilton LLP -- Philly -- 80
24.) Dechert LLP -- Philly -- 80
25.) Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft LLP -- NYC -- 100
26.) Manko, Gold, Katcher & Fox, LLP -- Philly Burbs -- 20
27.) Archer & Greiner, P.C. -- Philly Burbs -- 20
28.) Fox Rothschild LLP -- Philly -- 20 (Shared with 7 other offices)
29.) Cravath, Swaine & Moore LLP -- NYC -- 48
30.) K&L Gates LLP -- Pittsburgh -- 20 (Shared with 4 other offices)
31.) Dechert LLP -- NYC -- 60
32.) Schnader Harrison Segal & Lewis LLP -- Philly 40
33.) Clifford Chance US LLP -- NYC -- 64
34.) Cahill Gordon & Reindel LLP -- NYC -- 60
35.) Fried, Frank, Harris, Shriver & Jacobson LLP -- NYC -- 60
36.) Milbank, Tweed, Hadley & McCloy LLP -- NYC -- 80
37.) Schulte Roth & Zabel LLP -- NYC -- 80
38.) Perkins Coie LLP -- Portland -- 20 (Shared with 4 other offices)
39.) DLA Piper -- Baltimore -- 20 (Shared with 2 other offices)
40.) White & Case LLP -- NYC -- 60
41.) Willkie Farr & Gallagher LLP -- NYC -- 60
42.) Social Security Administration, Office of the General Counsel -- Philly -- 7
43.) Jones Day -- Pittsburgh -- 20 (Shared with 8 other offices)
44.) Morgan, Lewis & Bockius LLP -- Pittsburgh -- 4
45.) Reed Smith -- Pittsburgh -- 10
46.) Thorp Reed & Armstrong, LLP -- Pittsburgh -- 9
47.) Fox Rothschild LLP -- Philly Burbs -- 20 (Shared)
48.) Fox Rothschild LLP -- Philly Burbs -- 20 (Shared)
49.) Irell & Manella LLP -- LA -- 20
50.) Proskauer LLP -- Boston -- 20
51.) Winston & Strawn LLP -- NYC -- 35
52.) Nutter McClennen & Fish LLP -- Boston -- 20
53.) Mintz, Levin, Cohn, Ferris, Glovsky and Popeo, P.C. --Boston -- 20
54.) Goodwin Procter LLP -- Boston -- 20
55.) Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom LLP -- London -- 20
56.) WilmerHale LLP -- Boston -- 20
57.) DLA Piper -- Baltimore -- 20 (Shared)
58.) Miles & Stockbridge P.C. -- Baltimore -- 20
59.) O'Melveny & Myers LLP -- LA -- 20
60.) O'Melveny & Myers LLP -- New York -- 40

I suspect Cravath, Irell and Skadden are wasted bids...probably WilmerHale Boston (and possibly other Boston offices w/no ties) as well

[Anonymous User]

Yeah, I suspected as much. But I figured that they're low bids that I'm unlikely to get anyways. And, if I do, then I guess it's at least worth an interview. Plus, I'm highly unlikely to win any slots with most of the firms that I'm competitive for that low in the bidding process.

[Anonymous User]

Yeah, I suspected as much. But I figured that they're low bids that I'm unlikely to get anyways. And, if I do, then I guess it's at least worth an interview. Plus, I'm highly unlikely to win any slots with most of the firms that I'm competitive for that low in the bidding process.

Idk - Skadden at slightly above median at Penn is a wasted bid? IIRC their class size jumped from ~30 to ~70 from last summer to this. It's possible another jump is in store, and historically I think Skadden has been the least grade selective of the V10 (with maybe Weil). Not so sure that bid would be wasted.

-Not OP

[Anonymous User]

Yeah, I suspected as much. But I figured that they're low bids that I'm unlikely to get anyways. And, if I do, then I guess it's at least worth an interview. Plus, I'm highly unlikely to win any slots with most of the firms that I'm competitive for that low in the bidding process.

Idk - Skadden at slightly above median at Penn is a wasted bid? IIRC their class size jumped from ~30 to ~70 from last summer to this. It's possible another jump is in store, and historically I think Skadden has been the least grade selective of the V10 (with maybe Weil). Not so sure that bid would be wasted.

-Not OP

Yes, Skadden at median/slightly above median at Penn is a wasted bid LOL. Good thing OP has them so low that it's not too big of a waste.

[Anonymous User]

Yeah, I suspected as much. But I figured that they're low bids that I'm unlikely to get anyways. And, if I do, then I guess it's at least worth an interview. Plus, I'm highly unlikely to win any slots with most of the firms that I'm competitive for that low in the bidding process.

Idk - Skadden at slightly above median at Penn is a wasted bid? IIRC their class size jumped from ~30 to ~70 from last summer to this. It's possible another jump is in store, and historically I think Skadden has been the least grade selective of the V10 (with maybe Weil). Not so sure that bid would be wasted.

-Not OP

Yes, Skadden at median/slightly above median at Penn is a wasted bid LOL. Good thing OP has them so low that it's not too big of a waste.

Ok bro! Withdrawn!

[Anonymous User]

Overall, how does the list seem, though? Fairly "safe"? Or should/could I try and make it even more conservative?

[Anonymous User]

Come on, with all of these views, I KNOW that some other people wanna chime in

[r6_philly]

I have no idean why you are bidding Saul #1. You do realize they pay like $120. If above median (with WE no less) has to bid Saul #1, we have big problems.

[Anonymous User]

I have no idean why you are bidding Saul #1. You do realize they pay like $120. If above median (with WE no less) has to bid Saul #1, we have big problems.

Well, I bid them first because they were really the only Philly firm with a low success rate if the data CPP provided is correct (24% of bids were successful last year -- I'm guessing because they only have 20 slots and split them between offices). In fact, I think it may actually have the lowest bid success rate of ANY firm I bid on (Philly, NYC, London, etc). In fact, none of the other Philly firms were even close to being that low and most/many were over 50%, some well so, because they have so many slots. Saul isn't the firm I most want to work for or my top choice, but it is a safety that I'd like to have and it's really the only Philly firm that I'm concerned with getting. What would you recommend? Maybe drop it down and add another desirable and safe NYC firm with a low success rate? Shouldn't it at least be the first Philly firm I bid though?

[dabomb75]

there's a thread that was just posted within the past day or two about bidding the same firm, multiple offices. The advice is conflicting but if you really really want Philadelphia then I probably wouldn't risk bidding philly firms outside of philly. Especially since philly firms really do care about ties and commitment to the city.

Also, I think bidding a firm with a low bid success % high up is a perfectly fine strategy. In fact, I think that's what you need to be doing at median to maximize your # of screening interviews. I'm also a rising 2L who hasn't gone through OCI yet either, but all the info on TLS that I've done indicates that this is the ideal strategy for getting the most screening interviews.

[Rory1987]

Wow, 24%?? I didn't know Saul was so popular. Maybe because of all the free publicity he gets on Breaking Bad? But yeah, I have to agree with your logic. If it's a safety that everyone targeting that market wants, then I see no reason not to put it first.

[r6_philly]

Well, the problem with the CPP stats is: if 80 people all put Saul as the first bid, it would turn out to be 25%. If all 80 people put Saul as their last (60th) bid, it would still turn out to be 25%. So you have no way of knowing how popular Saul really is. So realistically, you could rank Saul 30th and still get in - it all depends on where the other 79 bids are. If everyone rank it as a backup at the bottom of their lists, then it inflates the %.

My guess is, since most people at Penn don't want Philly firms as top choice, most people load up the Philly firms mid-low as backup/safeties, and that's why Philly firms appear to be more popular. Realistically, there are only about 20% of the class who want Philly first (that's 50 people, being generous). Many of those are able to get Philly firms through the diversity fair. So I can't imagine way-below-market Philly firms to be actually in demand in top 15 bids.

[Anonymous User]

If it helps, I'm a 3L and I bid Saul somewhere around 12th last year and did not get an interview. I basically bid all the Philly firms as my top 15 or so, and got them all except Saul and Blank Rome. I ended up picking up Blank Rome too from add/drop. They only have 20 slots for Philly and Baltimore, so that's the main reason it's hard to get. Most of the other firms have at least 40 slots just for Philly.

I also agree with the poster who said you probably shouldn't bid other city offices of Dechert/ Morgan Lewis. You are pretty unlikely to get the other office, and it could hurt your chances at those two firms in Philly - which of course have two of the biggest summer classes in Philly and pay the top rate.

Also, don't waste a good bid on Manko Gold. People were giving those spots away like crazy last year. I think the screener guy ended up going home early because so many people cancelled their screeners and they couldn't get them filled.

[Veyron]

Skadden has been known to take slightly above median people from Penn. They have a huge class. Not sure why you wouldn't bid them. Guy who said not to has no idea what he's talking about.

[Anonymous User]

Well, the problem with the CPP stats is: if 80 people all put Saul as the first bid, it would turn out to be 25%. If all 80 people put Saul as their last (60th) bid, it would still turn out to be 25%. So you have no way of knowing how popular Saul really is. So realistically, you could rank Saul 30th and still get in - it all depends on where the other 79 bids are. If everyone rank it as a backup at the bottom of their lists, then it inflates the %.

My guess is, since most people at Penn don't want Philly firms as top choice, most people load up the Philly firms mid-low as backup/safeties, and that's why Philly firms appear to be more popular. Realistically, there are only about 20% of the class who want Philly first (that's 50 people, being generous). Many of those are able to get Philly firms through the diversity fair. So I can't imagine way-below-market Philly firms to be actually in demand in top 15 bids.

Well IDK if 120 is "way-below-market" in Philly. What's market, 145? And only a few firms here actually pay that from what I know. I know Saul isn't "ideal" but it's also a great safety. While I would be a little upset if that's what I ended up with in the end, I can still survive and pay off my six figure debt with what they're offering. And if push came to shove, I'll probably have some NYC offer to choose from that I could take over Saul if I wanted more dough (though, after factoring in COA, 160 NYC probably really isn't that much more than 120 Philly). I just feel that since Saul is a safety for seemingly everyone (just taking a look at who they hire from CPP's graphs) I just want to make sure I get it, because it seems that I can bid most of the other Philly firms anywhere in the top 20 or so and count on getting them.

[Anonymous User]

If it helps, I'm a 3L and I bid Saul somewhere around 12th last year and did not get an interview. I basically bid all the Philly firms as my top 15 or so, and got them all except Saul and Blank Rome. I ended up picking up Blank Rome too from add/drop. They only have 20 slots for Philly and Baltimore, so that's the main reason it's hard to get. Most of the other firms have at least 40 slots just for Philly.

I also agree with the poster who said you probably shouldn't bid other city offices of Dechert/ Morgan Lewis. You are pretty unlikely to get the other office, and it could hurt your chances at those two firms in Philly - which of course have two of the biggest summer classes in Philly and pay the top rate.

Also, don't waste a good bid on Manko Gold. People were giving those spots away like crazy last year. I think the screener guy ended up going home early because so many people cancelled their screeners and they couldn't get them filled.

Hmmmm, well I'm already interviewing with Morgan Lewis in SF and LA during regionals. If what you say is true, what would you recommend? I have a friend who got Morgan in SF last year without ties and the same grades I have, so that is giving me hope. If I got an offer in SF from them it would be hard to turn down. SF is probably tied with Philly for me right now as a desirable location. Most of my friends are in Philly and I love the city, but IMO San Francisco is the greatest city in the Western Hemisphere and I'd consider myself very lucky to live and work there.

I also plan on bidding Dechert London, which I guess I'll have to rethink.

Finally, based on how I ranked the Philly firms, do you think I'll get most of them? I bid most of the ones with a lot of slots between 10 and 20 thinking that I should still get them, so I could fit in some more competitive NYC and London bids in my top 10. Any firms you would suggest moving up or down? Maybe move up Blank Rome?

[Anonymous User]

Skadden has been known to take slightly above median people from Penn. They have a huge class. Not sure why you wouldn't bid them. Guy who said not to has no idea what he's talking about.

Any particular office? NYC I'm guessing is my best bet?

[Anonymous User]

And what's the deal with Manko Gold? You'd think they at least be able to fill their slots haha. Do they pay complete crap or something? I haven't actually been able to find anything regarding their starting pay.

[r6_philly]

Well IDK if 120 is "way-below-market" in Philly. What's market, 145? And only a few firms here actually pay that from what I know. I know Saul isn't "ideal" but it's also a great safety. While I would be a little upset if that's what I ended up with in the end, I can still survive and pay off my six figure debt with what they're offering. And if push came to shove, I'll probably have some NYC offer to choose from that I could take over Saul if I wanted more dough (though, after factoring in COA, 160 NYC probably really isn't that much more than 120 Philly). I just feel that since Saul is a safety for seemingly everyone (just taking a look at who they hire from CPP's graphs) I just want to make sure I get it, because it seems that I can bid most of the other Philly firms anywhere in the top 20 or so and count on getting them.

The graph shows who get offers, not who accept offers (hire). So yes they could have offered 10 top 25% students but maybe none took the offer.

Plenty of firms in Philly pay 130-145. Median with strong Philly ties should get many of them. Also there are firms that pay 160 outside of NY.

[r6_philly]

Actually Saul may start at $110. It was in 2010. Can't see the 2011 data.

[Anonymous User]

Well IDK if 120 is "way-below-market" in Philly. What's market, 145? And only a few firms here actually pay that from what I know. I know Saul isn't "ideal" but it's also a great safety. While I would be a little upset if that's what I ended up with in the end, I can still survive and pay off my six figure debt with what they're offering. And if push came to shove, I'll probably have some NYC offer to choose from that I could take over Saul if I wanted more dough (though, after factoring in COA, 160 NYC probably really isn't that much more than 120 Philly). I just feel that since Saul is a safety for seemingly everyone (just taking a look at who they hire from CPP's graphs) I just want to make sure I get it, because it seems that I can bid most of the other Philly firms anywhere in the top 20 or so and count on getting them.

The graph shows who get offers, not who accept offers (hire). So yes they could have offered 10 top 25% students but maybe none took the offer.

Plenty of firms in Philly pay 130-145. Median with strong Philly ties should get many of them. Also there are firms that pay 160 outside of NY.

Yeah, but if TLS wisdom holds true, my only options are going to be Philly and NYC since I don't have ties anywhere else and the consensus on here pretty much seems to be that you need to have ties to get offers anywhere outside of NYC, at least generally.

[Anonymous User]

Well IDK if 120 is "way-below-market" in Philly. What's market, 145? And only a few firms here actually pay that from what I know. I know Saul isn't "ideal" but it's also a great safety. While I would be a little upset if that's what I ended up with in the end, I can still survive and pay off my six figure debt with what they're offering. And if push came to shove, I'll probably have some NYC offer to choose from that I could take over Saul if I wanted more dough (though, after factoring in COA, 160 NYC probably really isn't that much more than 120 Philly). I just feel that since Saul is a safety for seemingly everyone (just taking a look at who they hire from CPP's graphs) I just want to make sure I get it, because it seems that I can bid most of the other Philly firms anywhere in the top 20 or so and count on getting them.

The graph shows who get offers, not who accept offers (hire). So yes they could have offered 10 top 25% students but maybe none took the offer.

Plenty of firms in Philly pay 130-145. Median with strong Philly ties should get many of them. Also there are firms that pay 160 outside of NY.

And where would you suggest I rank the Philly firms? I'm thinking between 10 and 20, and then save my top 10 for NYC and other more competitive/desirable markets?

[r6_philly]

Yeah, but if TLS wisdom holds true, my only options are going to be Philly and NYC since I don't have ties anywhere else and the consensus on here pretty much seems to be that you need to have ties to get offers anywhere outside of NYC, at least generally.

The consensus on TLS is always slightly pessimistic. Mostly because it's hard for KJDs to voice any realistic and believable reasons on why you want to go somewhere. And most people don't do the proper research before going to an interview. I mass mailed many markets for 1L and I can tell you it is entirely doable. TLS has the right idea, only exaggerated.

[r6_philly]

And where would you suggest I rank the Philly firms? I'm thinking between 10 and 20, and then save my top 10 for NYC and other more competitive/desirable markets?

I'd mix NY big class firms and good Philly firms 0 -15. You will get maybe half of your interviews from your top 15 (CPP told me, and I think previous year's literature states so, let me know if I am wrong, 3Ls). So maybe sure you cover both Philly and NYC.

Also, if you knew me who I am, I can give you some advice about Philly firms. PM/Email/FB me... (I can't PM you obviously).