What to use as a OCI writing sample? Forum

[sheD]

What do rising 2Ls generally use for writing samples? Will OCI interviewers expect me to use something from my 1L summer job, or would my class brief be appropriate? I'm sure I could come up with something usable this summer, but my brief is probably more polished.

[Myself]

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[flcath]

Call me crazy, but I find the rigid CREAC (a.k.a. TREAT) format that the LRW profs force you to use to be cramped and cumbersome, and I'd never submit a LRW paper to an employer.

Before some 1L tells me that "that's how real lawyers do it," no, it isn't. The typical task will be something like "sum this up in 2 pages," and I cannot imagine jamming a CREAC into 2 pages.

[Myself]

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[flcath]

IRAC?

IRAC is the exam-writing one. This one is like Conclusion/Thesis --> Rule --> Explanation --> Application --> Conclusion/Thesis.

It's a fine model, but at least my LRW prof (an HLS grad who admittedly had a real BL career) would not tolerate even the slightest deviation.

[lukertin]

Call me crazy, but I find the rigid CREAC (a.k.a. TREAT) format that the LRW profs force you to use to be cramped and cumbersome, and I'd never submit a LRW paper to an employer.

Before some 1L tells me that "that's how real lawyers do it," no, it isn't. The typical task will be something like "sum this up in 2 pages," and I cannot imagine jamming a CREAC into 2 pages.

???????

CREAC is basically the streamline of how you should present anything in a business / professional setting, whether legal or not. The fuck?

[094320]

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[ilovesf]

CREAC? What's the E? I'm working with a judge and the clerks told me to IRAC in the opinions. I'll probably use my order granting judgment if I can get permission, otherwise I'll use my LWR memo.

[queenlizzie13]

CREAC? What's the E? I'm working with a judge and the clerks told me to IRAC in the opinions. I'll probably use my order granting judgment if I can get permission, otherwise I'll use my LWR memo.

E = explanation of rule. RE can get jumbled together sometimes, but it's fleshing out the rule, essentially.

[flcath]

Call me crazy, but I find the rigid CREAC (a.k.a. TREAT) format that the LRW profs force you to use to be cramped and cumbersome, and I'd never submit a LRW paper to an employer.

Before some 1L tells me that "that's how real lawyers do it," no, it isn't. The typical task will be something like "sum this up in 2 pages," and I cannot imagine jamming a CREAC into 2 pages.

???????

CREAC is basically the streamline of how you should present anything in a business / professional setting, whether legal or not. The fuck?

Well no shit. And IRAC is the way you should write exams, but I've never consciously used IRAC and still get mostly A's and A-'s, probably because the way I actually do write is pretty close to IRAC anyway. Still, the little deviations and shorthands save time and words, and can be just as clear.

Specifically, the "E" section being a factually-intensive survey of the various landmark cases is a huge waste of time in most memos, and can be dispensed with. You could never produce a 2-page memo (a regular BL request) writing the way your LRW profs make you write.

[notedgarfigaro]

so I wrote a fact based memo with little real analysis at work, and apparently people liked it b/c one of the senior attorneys said I should use it as a writing sample. However, it was simply a summary of a situation with no real legal arguments whatsoever. I don't think I'll have anything else substantial enough from my job before I have to have my writing sample up for OCI (deadline's next week). Can I use that memo, or should I just use my LRW open brief?

[bigredforlaw]

I am wondering this as well. My LWR memo is around 8 pages (single-spaced, unabridged) and concerns THE most boring tort issue ever. I haven't formatted my LWR brief yet but it was 30 pages double-spaced. The brief is way more interesting and related to my interest in IP...but definitely needs some polishing. Is it worth it to dive back into my brief? And which sections are most important to keep in? Alternatively, I have two fact-intensive ~3-page memos from my current internship. They are roughly in CREA format but my supervisor wanted only 2 sections..."Issue" and "Answer." I'd appreciate any advice! Sorry if my questions are dumb haha I come from a science background so any kind of writing sample requirement was new to me.

[LeDique]

I had a question more related to yours, with respect to appropriate length. I have some 3 page single spaced ones from this summer, and my longer brief and memo from LRW and am unsure what to use. Planning to ask next week if there's a general memo they'd like me to do that can be longer, but assuming that there isn't, I'm not sure what's best to use.

[Anonymous User]

Now, when using something from work, should you get permission first or can you just redact any information that needs to be taken off?

The other thing is, should you generally use motions that you wrote or can you use letters, mediation statements, etc.?

[Myself]

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[sundance95]

I'd never submit a LRW paper to an employer.

I feel the same way. However, my chambers has us drafting actual opinions and orders rather than doing bench memos. Which is great and all, but also means that I can't use anything I've written as a writing sample because the judge hasn't issued the opinions in any of the cases I've worked on yet. So it looks like I'm stuck with my final 1L brief.

In my writing sample introductory cover letter, I'm thinking of including this line:

I would have preferred to submit a sample of my work product completed during my summer externship with Judge [Name] of the [Court], but unfortunately the orders and opinions I have drafted have not yet been issued and are still confidential.

Weird or not weird? Douchey?

[dixiecupdrinking]

I'd never submit a LRW paper to an employer.

I feel the same way. However, my chambers has us drafting actual opinions and orders rather than doing bench memos. Which is great and all, but also means that I can't use anything I've written as a writing sample because the judge hasn't issued the opinions in any of the cases I've worked on yet. So it looks like I'm stuck with my final 1L brief.

In my writing sample introductory cover letter, I'm thinking of including this line:

I would have preferred to submit a sample of my work product completed during my summer externship with Judge [Name] of the [Court], but unfortunately the orders and opinions I have drafted have not yet been issued and are still confidential.

Weird or not weird? Douchey?

Weird. Sounds like you're blaming the judge for making you submit your LRW memo. Just use the memo, don't call attention to it by trying to explain why. Lots of other people will do the same thing.

[Anonymous User]

I really don't think it matters. Our OCS at UChicago said about 60% of people will use something from LRW. We also had a panel of attorneys of varying ages from one of the big Chicago firms and not one had looked at a writing sample, which isn't to say that no one ever will, but as long as you're submitting good, error-free writing, I can't imagine the source of it (LRW v. job) will ever be a big deal.

Just a 1L opinion though, so perhaps talk to 2Ls/3Ls you're friends with and see if any firms ever brought up their writing sample or where it came from.

In my writing sample introductory cover letter, I'm thinking of including this line:

I would have preferred to submit a sample of my work product completed during my summer externship with Judge [Name] of the [Court], but unfortunately the orders and opinions I have drafted have not yet been issued and are still confidential.

Weird or not weird? Douchey?

Weird.

[sundance95]

Yeah, my gut told me it was weird, thx for confirming.

[094320]

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