S&C from Cornell Forum

[Anonymous User]

around top 15-20% grades, K-JD, no news on journal membership but probably a secondary one.

i have heard that s&c is incredibly grade selective and will not dip below top 10% at lower t-14 unless you are URM. would i be wasting a bid by bidding them high?

[Anonymous User]

Maybe yeah, I'd like some answers to this to.

[Anonymous User]

see how their average callback gap was 3.81? and class of 2013 only had a semester's worth of grade inflation

[Arbiter213]

see how their average callback gap was 3.81? and class of 2013 only had a semester's worth of grade inflation

I don't know wtf you're talking about with semester's worth, but 3.81 was top 10% last year, too. So basically, to answer OP's question: probably if you don't get law review. Might happen with law review.

[Anonymous User]

S&C is very grade focused but once you get to the callback stage it's a 90% offer rate. So if the low for S&C is a 3.7, that gives more hope to 3.7's for a S&C job than a low of a 3.5 for Cravath etc.

[Arbiter213]

S&C is very grade focused but once you get to the callback stage it's a 90% offer rate. So if the low for S&C is a 3.7, that gives more hope to 3.7's for a S&C job than a low of a 3.5 for Cravath etc.

I agree with your reasoning, but not your application. If their LOW is a 3.7, you're extremely unlikely to get the callback with a 3.7, not on a journal, not a URM. In fact, I'd say you're certain not to get one with all that against you. With the 3.5 low of Cravath, a 3.7 is substantially more likely to get you to the stage where the grades won't matter as much.

[Anonymous User]

S&C is very grade focused but once you get to the callback stage it's a 90% offer rate. So if the low for S&C is a 3.7, that gives more hope to 3.7's for a S&C job than a low of a 3.5 for Cravath etc.

I agree with your reasoning, but not your application. If their LOW is a 3.7, you're extremely unlikely to get the callback with a 3.7, not on a journal, not a URM. In fact, I'd say you're certain not to get one with all that against you. With the 3.5 low of Cravath, a 3.7 is substantially more likely to get you to the stage where the grades won't matter as much.

True but at the callback stage you are up against a larger pool of applicants as a neutral applicant. Can be totally hit or miss if your grades are all considered equal at the CB stage leaving a larger chance of getting no offered.

[Old Gregg]

Jesus it's just one bid. Go for it. With those grades it's not like you won't have other offers. This discussion is dumb,

[Old Gregg]

And FYI I don't think you have to bid S&C that high to get it. And even I'd you don't get it, you can always just pull an interview out of the hospitality suite,

[Anonymous User]

S&C is grade selective, but more like top 20% at lower T14 rather than top 10%.

[DallasCowboy]

Jesus it's just one bid. Go for it. With those grades it's not like you won't have other offers. This discussion is dumb,

[Anonymous User]

Jesus it's just one bid. Go for it. With those grades it's not like you won't have other offers. This discussion is dumb,

Agreed. However, I think S&C is a huge stretch outside top 10% from a lower T14. But people outperform their GPA all the time; it's worth the shot.

[Anonymous User]

Jesus it's just one bid. Go for it. With those grades it's not like you won't have other offers. This discussion is dumb,

Agreed. However, I think S&C is a huge stretch outside top 10% from a lower T14. But people outperform their GPA all the time; it's worth the shot.

Their median CB was outside the top 10% at my lower T14 last year.

[Anonymous User]

Looking at the lowest GPA for firms is like looking at the lowest GPA of the admitted students at a law school. By that rationale, you'd all be at Yale.

[Anonymous User]

Looking at the lowest GPA for firms is like looking at the lowest GPA of the admitted students at a law school. By that rationale, you'd all be at Yale.

Not really. For firms that have hard cut-offs, the low represents the cut-off. They don't "dip down" for URM. At these firms being a URM is a soft that will get you a CB if you're below the target median but above the cut-off, like having an IP background or banking work experience.

And the low isn't also always a URM. It could easily be someone who had a killer interview.

[Lincoln]

Looking at the lowest GPA for firms is like looking at the lowest GPA of the admitted students at a law school. By that rationale, you'd all be at Yale.

Not really. For firms that have hard cut-offs, the low represents the cut-off. They don't "dip down" for URM. At these firms being a URM is a soft that will get you a CB if you're below the target median but above the cut-off, like having an IP background or banking work experience.

Sorry, didn't mean to be anon. What I mean is this: just because one person with a 3.5 got an offer at CS&M doesn't mean everyone who had a 3.5 or over got an offer from CS&M. Focusing on that number is misleading. Some people obviously outperform their numbers because of their unique background or qualifications.

[Anonymous User]

Looking at the lowest GPA for firms is like looking at the lowest GPA of the admitted students at a law school. By that rationale, you'd all be at Yale.

Not really. For firms that have hard cut-offs, the low represents the cut-off. They don't "dip down" for URM. At these firms being a URM is a soft that will get you a CB if you're below the target median but above the cut-off, like having an IP background or banking work experience.

Sorry, didn't mean to be anon. What I mean is this: just because one person with a 3.5 got an offer at CS&M doesn't mean everyone who had a 3.5 or over got an offer from CS&M. Focusing on that number is misleading. Some people obviously outperform their numbers because of their unique background or qualifications.

I agree. Most people who get CB's will be clustered around the CB median. But looking at the low is important--it shows you how low the firm is willing to go for a killer interview, whether because of background, personality, etc.

The median is also misleading in a way. Amongst the set of indistinguishable people who give an average interview, a firm like S&C will just call back the people with the highest GPA's. But that doesn't mean they aren't going substantially below that for people who have great interviews. And like with law school admissions, their callback median is going to be higher than the median of people who accept offers at the firm. A lot of the latter are people whose GPA's are between the callback median and the callback low, and for whom S&C is a "reach".

It doesn't matter whether most people above a 3.5 get an offer at CSM. What matters is whether you can get an offer from CSM with a 3.5. Interviews are one of the few places in this whole law school game where it's entirely within your control whether you outperform your numbers.