DC firms post-clerkship Forum

[Anonymous User]

Anybody know about DC? Looking to move markets to the city post-clerkship. Don't know jack about post-clerk hiring. Top 5% at a T14 (not GULC or UVA). Clerkship is COA in a big city but not a 2/9/DC or feeder. Hard IP background and would be interested in patent lit or ITC or general lit too. Dream would be something like Keker but west coast is not an option. Okay with billing for the rest of my life, so partnership prospects are more important than exit options.

[Anonymous User]

Anybody know about DC? Looking to move markets to the city post-clerkship. Don't know jack about post-clerk hiring. Top 5% at a T14 (not GULC or UVA). Clerkship is COA in a big city but not a 2/9/DC or feeder. Hard IP background and would be interested in patent lit or ITC or general lit too. Dream would be something like Keker but west coast is not an option. Okay with billing for the rest of my life, so partnership prospects are more important than exit options.

As long as you can spin a reasonable reason for being in DC, I'm sure you'd be ok. Chambers seems about right for DC patent lit: http://www.chambersandpartners.com/USA/Editorial/70683. Even during the downtown, Cov DC was hiring post-clerkship associates who had not been past SA's.

[Anonymous User]

Anybody know about DC? Looking to move markets to the city post-clerkship. Don't know jack about post-clerk hiring. Top 5% at a T14 (not GULC or UVA). Clerkship is COA in a big city but not a 2/9/DC or feeder. Hard IP background and would be interested in patent lit or ITC or general lit too. Dream would be something like Keker but west coast is not an option. Okay with billing for the rest of my life, so partnership prospects are more important than exit options.

if you're interested in ITC or patent litigation, anything other than a fed. cir. clerkship at the appellate level is a total waste of time imo, district is another story and any district should be good. I have friends who are clerking in random COAs (4/5/8/11), pat lit groups don't place any real premium on that experience, its kinda like law review - just a signaling tool. Appellate clerkships are in general overrated and only some firms (Covington, Keker, etc.) place that undeserved premium on them. I think you should go to Covington, you'd probably be a good fit there, although they have a good contingency of CAFC clerks.

you can't be CAFC or you wouldn't be here asking for D.C. advice.

Keker isn't really that good at patent litigation (yes they had a good copyright win for Google with a less important patent win, but they're not an IP lit firm, their core group of patent litigators took off for durie tangri).

Unless your top 5% t14 is really top 2-3% t6, then Kellogg Huber is probably a reach.

[Anonymous User]

Anybody know about DC? Looking to move markets to the city post-clerkship. Don't know jack about post-clerk hiring. Top 5% at a T14 (not GULC or UVA). Clerkship is COA in a big city but not a 2/9/DC or feeder. Hard IP background and would be interested in patent lit or ITC or general lit too. Dream would be something like Keker but west coast is not an option. Okay with billing for the rest of my life, so partnership prospects are more important than exit options.

if you're interested in ITC or patent litigation, anything other than a fed. cir. clerkship at the appellate level is a total waste of time imo, district is another story and any district should be good. I have friends who are clerking in random COAs (4/5/8/11), pat lit groups don't place any real premium on that experience, its kinda like law review - just a signaling tool. Appellate clerkships are in general overrated and only some firms (Covington, Keker, etc.) place that undeserved premium on them. I think you should go to Covington, you'd probably be a good fit there.

you can't be CAFC or you wouldn't be here asking for D.C. advice.

Keker isn't really that good at patent litigation (yes they had a good copyright win for Google with a less important patent win, but they're not an IP lit firm, their core group of patent litigators took off for Durie Tangri).

What about Covington, Kirkland, and Wilmer? Plus, didn't Quinn just open a DC office to focus on ITC cases?

[Anonymous User]

Anybody know about DC? Looking to move markets to the city post-clerkship. Don't know jack about post-clerk hiring. Top 5% at a T14 (not GULC or UVA). Clerkship is COA in a big city but not a 2/9/DC or feeder. Hard IP background and would be interested in patent lit or ITC or general lit too. Dream would be something like Keker but west coast is not an option. Okay with billing for the rest of my life, so partnership prospects are more important than exit options.

if you're interested in ITC or patent litigation, anything other than a fed. cir. clerkship at the appellate level is a total waste of time imo, district is another story and any district should be good. I have friends who are clerking in random COAs (4/5/8/11), pat lit groups don't place any real premium on that experience, its kinda like law review - just a signaling tool. Appellate clerkships are in general overrated and only some firms (Covington, Keker, etc.) place that undeserved premium on them. I think you should go to Covington, you'd probably be a good fit there.

you can't be CAFC or you wouldn't be here asking for D.C. advice.

Keker isn't really that good at IP (yes they had a good copyright win for Google with a patent element to the case, but they're not an IP lit firm, their core group of patent litigators took off for Durie Tangri).

Not at CAFC.

Would it be worthwhile to do a patent-heavy district clerkship post-COA? Say D. Del or E.D. Va? Or CAFC for that matter? I thought a double COA was usually consider a bit strange, but CAFC is a very different type of work so maybe that wouldn't matter.

[Anonymous User]

What about Covington, Kirkland, and Wilmer? Plus, didn't Quinn just open a DC office to focus on ITC cases?

I covered Covington.

Kirkland, Wilmer are OK. Nothing special.

Quinn DC ITC is very new. Not established. I would never work at Quinn - everyone I know who works there hates life.

Don't do ITC work. It's not a good way to learn patent litigation. The work is too fast to be meaningful as a training experience. Focus on litigating in Delaware/EDVa once you're up in D.C., slower pace, you can actually learn somtehing.

[Anonymous User]

Anybody know about DC? Looking to move markets to the city post-clerkship. Don't know jack about post-clerk hiring. Top 5% at a T14 (not GULC or UVA). Clerkship is COA in a big city but not a 2/9/DC or feeder. Hard IP background and would be interested in patent lit or ITC or general lit too. Dream would be something like Keker but west coast is not an option. Okay with billing for the rest of my life, so partnership prospects are more important than exit options.

if you're interested in ITC or patent litigation, anything other than a fed. cir. clerkship at the appellate level is a total waste of time imo, district is another story and any district should be good. I have friends who are clerking in random COAs (4/5/8/11), pat lit groups don't place any real premium on that experience, its kinda like law review - just a signaling tool. Appellate clerkships are in general overrated and only some firms (Covington, Keker, etc.) place that undeserved premium on them. I think you should go to Covington, you'd probably be a good fit there.

you can't be CAFC or you wouldn't be here asking for D.C. advice.

Keker isn't really that good at IP (yes they had a good copyright win for Google with a patent element to the case, but they're not an IP lit firm, their core group of patent litigators took off for Durie Tangri).

Not at CAFC.

Would it be worthwhile to do a patent-heavy district clerkship post-COA? Say D. Del or E.D. Va? Or CAFC for that matter? I thought a double COA was usually consider a bit strange, but CAFC is a very different type of work so maybe that wouldn't matter.

Stop saving up sex for old age. Just go work.

But i'll play your game. Worthwhile for what? To get a job? No. To get patent litigation experience? No. To see how a judge actually construes claims and moves a patent dispute through his docket? Maybe. But what's that worth? I don't think it's worth the money you leave on the table for a SECOND clerkship. You've basically paid $60K for a glorified legal writing class with your non-CAFC clerkship. That's fine, and you will keep other gains from your experience and will forever be known as someone who was good enough to get an appellate clerkship.

But - I think a clerkship for ONE OR TWO of those judges in EDVa or D.Del. would be worth your time if you're committed to pat lit, and if you get one of those - you should do it. But I revisit my original point - a "second" clerkship is just too much money to blow for prestige. You can learn whatever you need to learn at a firm.

[Anonymous User]

Getting a job obviously. First clerkship location was for logistical reasons, not preftige.

If patent litigation is something you are seriously considering are very likely to go down with a hard-IP background, then I don't see too many logistical reasons to clerk in a non-CAFC appellate court first unless you were no-offered or couldn't get a gig - which is odd with top 5% at any t14. I guess I don't quite understand - if location is the logistical reason, then how could you not have secured higher-paying employment in whatever city you're in? Obviously, you may be changing your mind and are only now considering IP lit, in which case it's unfortunate that your first clerkship didn't have jursidiction to hear patent matters.

I think you should apply to CAFC. That will unlock doors for DC IP lit. You might have a shot if judge #1 calls a CAFC judge. The CAFC is fully stacked now and they would give strong consideration to t14 top 5% with a hard-IP bg - or so I guess anyway. I saw some postings on OSCAR for CAFC jobs only two weeks ago (Judge Reyna I believe).

My friend who is a clerk on CAFC at present told me they get very aggressively recruited.

[Anonymous User]

I guess I don't quite understand - if location is the logistical reason, then how could you not have secured higher-paying employment in whatever city you're in?

Law firms hire two years out. Lot's of life events can happen in that time.

Thanks for the advice, though, it's greatly appreciated. As I said, I don't know jack about this.

[Anonymous User]

What about Covington, Kirkland, and Wilmer? Plus, didn't Quinn just open a DC office to focus on ITC cases?

I covered Covington.

Kirkland, Wilmer are OK. Nothing special.

Quinn DC ITC is very new. Not established. I would never work at Quinn - everyone I know who works there hates life.

Don't do ITC work. It's not a good way to learn patent litigation. The work is too fast to be meaningful as a training experience. Focus on litigating in Delaware/EDVa once you're up in D.C., slower pace, you can actually learn somtehing.

why does patent litigation attract psychos like you? regarding quinn, you are quite ignorant, considering the Samsung v. Apple trial that is happening before the ITC AS WE SPEAK, which is basically the biggest thing in patent litigation right now (http://www.fosspatents.com/2012/04/john ... ng-to.html). they took alston and bird's core people (brinkman in particular) and just picked up some other ITC guys. you're right on the hours; I've heard they are pretty rough right now.

wilmer's patent group in DC is prety small at this point but supposedly expanding (not at the pace of quinn, which has like quadrupled over a couple months). covington is definitely the shit in DC and loves clerk as has been mentioned.

gl

[Anonymous User]

What about Covington, Kirkland, and Wilmer? Plus, didn't Quinn just open a DC office to focus on ITC cases?

I covered Covington.

Kirkland, Wilmer are OK. Nothing special.

Quinn DC ITC is very new. Not established. I would never work at Quinn - everyone I know who works there hates life.

Don't do ITC work. It's not a good way to learn patent litigation. The work is too fast to be meaningful as a training experience. Focus on litigating in Delaware/EDVa once you're up in D.C., slower pace, you can actually learn somtehing.

why does patent litigation attract psychos like you? regarding quinn, you are quite ignorant, considering the Samsung v. Apple trial that is happening before the ITC AS WE SPEAK, which is basically the biggest thing in patent litigation right now (http://www.fosspatents.com/2012/04/john ... ng-to.html).

gl

I don't know where I pushed your button friend. Maybe you have some soft spot for Quinn. Quinn has a terrible reputation in terms of associate morale. The three people I know who work there (different offices) are all looking to get out. No jokes. The cited reason isn't even always the hours. Poor mentoring is also a common complaint. While hours/mentoring is a problem everywhere, Quinn seems rather unique in that it enjoys a pretty widespread negative reputation.

And citing cases being handled means nothing. Fish has handled ten times as many high-profile cases as Quinn. Fish also laid off a ton of associates not too long ago and is only now getting back in shape. Citing matters isn't how you evaluate a firm's quality or one's lifestyle in it.

There are random ass firms that have handled big cases, see, e.g. Wiley Rein. Are you going to go tell everyone to join Wiley Rein for their IP lit powerhouse status based on their handling of a big case? Alston handled a ton of the smartphone litigation a year ago. Go to Alston? That's not how this works.

[Anonymous User]

What about Covington, Kirkland, and Wilmer? Plus, didn't Quinn just open a DC office to focus on ITC cases?

I covered Covington.

Kirkland, Wilmer are OK. Nothing special.

Quinn DC ITC is very new. Not established. I would never work at Quinn - everyone I know who works there hates life.

Don't do ITC work. It's not a good way to learn patent litigation. The work is too fast to be meaningful as a training experience. Focus on litigating in Delaware/EDVa once you're up in D.C., slower pace, you can actually learn somtehing.

why does patent litigation attract psychos like you? regarding quinn, you are quite ignorant, considering the Samsung v. Apple trial that is happening before the ITC AS WE SPEAK, which is basically the biggest thing in patent litigation right now (http://www.fosspatents.com/2012/04/john ... ng-to.html).

gl

I don't know where I pushed your button friend. Maybe you have some soft spot for Quinn. Quinn has a terrible reputation in terms of associate morale. The three people I know who work there (different offices) are all looking to get out. No jokes. The cited reason isn't even always the hours. Poor mentoring is also a common complaint. While hours/mentoring is a problem everywhere, Quinn seems rather unique in that it enjoys a pretty widespread negative reputation.

And citing cases being handled means nothing. Fish has handled ten times as many high-profile cases as Quinn. Fish also laid off a ton of associates not too long ago and is only now getting back in shape. Citing matters isn't how you evaluate a firm's quality or one's lifestyle in it.

There are random ass firms that have handled big cases, see, e.g. Wiley Rein. Are you going to go tell everyone to join Wiley Rein for their IP lit powerhouse status based on their handling of a big case? Alston handled a ton of the smartphone litigation a year ago. Go to Alston? That's not how this works.

How important is it to be at a firm that's doing headline work?

[Anonymous User]

Any DC boutiques work looking at that are more approachable than Kellogg? Let's say just general lit.

[Anonymous User]

Any DC boutiques work looking at that are more approachable than Kellogg? Let's say just general lit.

Robbins Russell, Zuckerman Spaeder, Kobre & Kim...