Are ur parents jealous of ur BigLaw job? Forum

[dailygrind]

Honest question, is there anyone in this thread, student loans aside, that would RATHER make 160k-250k than work 70 hour, inconsistent weeks and put in work time on vacation than work 40 hour weeks, never work on weekends or vacation, and make 60k-100k?

Genuinely curious. Probably depends a bit on if you're living with ridiculous COL like in NYC or SF as opposed to near anywhere else. But I'm actually curious.

For how long, and what kind of exit options/job security do I get out of the latter?

[Lawl Shcool]

My mom thinks 160K a year means I'll be a baller with cash to blow. Trying to explain how 250K in debt means that isn't true, but she doesn't get it.

I get this problem with my friends more than my parents. No matter how I try to explain that, after I make my student loan payments, I am making less than them at non-law jobs, they expect me to buy a boat and fund drinking activities.

I'm not sure why people's friends know what they will be making? One of my friends was like "so what do those big NY firms pay 1st years? 70-80K a year?", and I just said "yeah, about that". Why would I want them to know what I make? My dad won't even tell me what he makes, since thats what my grandfather taught him. And my grandfather was so extreme about this that he wouldn't even tell my grandmother what he made. She would ask, and he would be like "you live comfortably, right? so don't worry". Sure, we don't live in the 50's and 60's anymore when that will fly, but its sort of weird that people discuss it so much more openly now.

You do know that law firm first year salaries are all over the internet right? Also, in my market there is a yearly article in the newspaper going over what all the biggest firms pay, etc. It's not like it is a constant discussion of each other salaries but its very much public info, and the firms make it that way.

[Anonymous User]

My parents are more concerned about me getting divorced and being miserable....

[dailygrind]

Sorry, I'm asian with immigrant parents...I swear there is an appropriate meme for this that I am just too lazy to find this morning lol.

the thing with asian parents is that they're greedy and will only be happy with their children's success if the success can be attributed back to the parents. otherwise, they tend to resent their children.

I'm so glad my asian parents aren't asian

Just like how some of my jewish friends have parents that so aren't jewish. My jewish parents are definitely jewish though

Could be wrong here, but I think the point is that it's just a shitty generalization.

[Kronk]

Honest question, is there anyone in this thread, student loans aside, that would RATHER make 160k-250k than work 70 hour, inconsistent weeks and put in work time on vacation than work 40 hour weeks, never work on weekends or vacation, and make 60k-100k?

Genuinely curious. Probably depends a bit on if you're living with ridiculous COL like in NYC or SF as opposed to near anywhere else. But I'm actually curious.

For how long, and what kind of exit options/job security do I get out of the latter?

For your first five years (e.g., about when you'd go from 160-250k in a firm). I would assume that after ten years in either path you'd be making various amounts (government level probably 120k or if federal 150k, firm either you've gone in house or you're making bank as a partner). The range I quoted is from the lower range of government and upper range of PI jobs to the upper range of entry-level government jobs. For example, the place I clerked at last summer is a local government and starts at about 90k in the Denver / Boulder area.

So your exit options are pretty varied both from a government job (depending, because like a PD office won't have the same exit options a local government lawyer doing real estate and land use would), but the job security is good in the government job and obviously benefits are off the charts.

[dailygrind]

If I could get a gov. job whose subject matter interested me, I'd probably take that path. That 10 year loan forgiveness + QoL is pretty attractive. I also figure some of the more interesting gov. practices could lateral into big lawl as a partner (e.g. antitrust, international trade). But it's not exactly like these jobs are growing on trees.

[Kronk]

If I could get a gov. job whose subject matter interested me, I'd probably take that path. That 10 year loan forgiveness + QoL is pretty attractive. I also figure some of the more interesting gov. practices could lateral into big lawl as a partner (e.g. antitrust, international trade). But it's not exactly like these jobs are growing on trees.

Certainly not growing on trees. Kind of depends on where you are too. I was just thinking that BigLaw is so difficult to get at this point that it wouldn't be much harder to get a government job (or at least, it was far easier for me to land a government job than to squeak out the several offers I got).

[shoeshine]

Honest question, is there anyone in this thread, student loans aside, that would RATHER make 160k-250k than work 70 hour, inconsistent weeks and put in work time on vacation than work 40 hour weeks, never work on weekends or vacation, and make 60k-100k?

Genuinely curious. Probably depends a bit on if you're living with ridiculous COL like in NYC or SF as opposed to near anywhere else. But I'm actually curious.

Yeah I rather make the money.

60 hour weeks aren't for everyone but I did them in my last job and I sort of enjoy long hours. Plus I want to pay off loans and save as much as possible while I am still young. Big law is temporary for 90% of us. It is just a 4-7 year intermediate job that will lead to hours more near what you are describing. But I think most of us need the money now for various reasons and could not or would not give it up.

[kaiser]

Could be wrong here, but I think the point is that it's just a shitty generalization.

Saying "my family doesn't fit that generalization" (i.e. noting an exception to a generalization) doesn't make it a shitty generalization. In Brooklyn, the best bagels tend to come from the Jewish delis. I know of a Jewish deli that sells subpar bagels. Doesn't change the fact that the best bagels tend to come from the jewish delis. Its a tendency, not a categorical rule. Of course there are asian parents who aren't like that.

[Kronk]

Honest question, is there anyone in this thread, student loans aside, that would RATHER make 160k-250k than work 70 hour, inconsistent weeks and put in work time on vacation than work 40 hour weeks, never work on weekends or vacation, and make 60k-100k?

Genuinely curious. Probably depends a bit on if you're living with ridiculous COL like in NYC or SF as opposed to near anywhere else. But I'm actually curious.

Yeah I rather make the money.

60 hour weeks aren't for everyone but I did them in my last job and I sort of enjoy long hours. Plus I want to pay off loans and save as much as possible while I am still young. Big law is temporary for 90% of us. It is just a 4-7 year intermediate job that will lead to hours more near what you are describing. But I think most of us need the money now for various reasons and could not or would not give it up.

Fair enough. When I did the cost-benefit analysis for this summer + the future I was thinking that given PSLF and IBR, you have a 10 year repayment period capped at your 10% of income, so the difference in take-home during that period between the market-paying firm minus loan payments on a ten-year payment plan and the other job I was considering which is like 70k starting ended up being like 5k-10k a year depending on bonuses, etc. 5k-10k is a lot, don't get me wrong. Was just curious.

[09042014]

My mom thinks 160K a year means I'll be a baller with cash to blow. Trying to explain how 250K in debt means that isn't true, but she doesn't get it.

I get this problem with my friends more than my parents. No matter how I try to explain that, after I make my student loan payments, I am making less than them at non-law jobs, they expect me to buy a boat and fund drinking activities.

Maybe there's an expectation that the money will keep flowing forever. I mean, if we could legitimately expect the big lawl income stream for the rest of our careers (especially considering raises), even the sizeable student debt we have would not stop us from being complete baller status. Except that's not exactly a reasonable expectation.

I hear 150K is a reasonable starting in house salary. Of course by the time you can lateral into that you'll be making 200K+. So there is still a salary drop.

[09042014]

I would take 40 hours at 90-100K for life (corrected for inflation) and be VERY fucking happy.

[dailygrind]

Could be wrong here, but I think the point is that it's just a shitty generalization.

Saying "my family doesn't fit that generalization" (i.e. noting an exception to a generalization) doesn't make it a shitty generalization. In Brooklyn, the best bagels tend to come from the Jewish delis. I know of a Jewish deli that sells subpar bagels. Doesn't change the fact that the best bagels tend to come from the jewish delis. Its a tendency, not a categorical rule. Of course there are asian parents who aren't like that.

Yeah, Asian families are not exactly a good comparison to Brooklyn's Jewish bagel stores. Gathering enough data about the shittiness of Asian parenting is significantly harder, given 1) how broad the group is; and 2) how few Asian families one will typically know well, given their low prevalence in the US. Some guy saying Asian parents are jealous, without more, has shit for probative value and is rebuttable by two anecdotes to the contrary.

[dailygrind]

My mom thinks 160K a year means I'll be a baller with cash to blow. Trying to explain how 250K in debt means that isn't true, but she doesn't get it.

I get this problem with my friends more than my parents. No matter how I try to explain that, after I make my student loan payments, I am making less than them at non-law jobs, they expect me to buy a boat and fund drinking activities.

Maybe there's an expectation that the money will keep flowing forever. I mean, if we could legitimately expect the big lawl income stream for the rest of our careers (especially considering raises), even the sizeable student debt we have would not stop us from being complete baller status. Except that's not exactly a reasonable expectation.

I hear 150K is a reasonable starting in house salary. Of course by the time you can lateral into that you'll be making 200K+. So there is still a salary drop.

Inhouse is not exactly the be all end all, either. If you go inhouse and get fired/the company fails, you've just spent a good while developing contacts that you might not be able to use, and your skills have become rusty because you've been farming the interesting work to outside counsel.

ETA: And this assumes we're good enough at our jobs that we can get decent inhouse gigs. Maybe we'll suck and have to do something else. I met a chick during a callback who was working in HR and had begun her career as an associate. Don't think any less of her for it, but if she hasn't paid down her loans yet, that cannot be comfortable.

[Anonymous User]

My parents are very happy for me in general (though I can tell they are confused as to why some kid with zero experience should be making so much right out of school). But they are happy for me nonetheless. We are Jews, so parents need to be able to brag about their kids to their friends. So in general, and externally, they are very supportive and happy for me, know how important it is to start at one of these big firms since it will hopefully set me up for a successful career, etc.

Where they get "jealous" is when I focus too much on the material shit. We are and always have been a middle-class family who was smart with money and I was taught the value of things. My parents get "resentful" a bit when I go against those lessons. For example, I will say how I'm thinking about buying a Brooks Brothers suit during my summer SA as a treat, and my parents will think I'm a misguided and lost fool, totally going against what they taught me. My dad will go on about how he never spent more than $200 for a suit in his life, and that its about the quality of the work you do, not the brand of suit or shoe you wear. So they now think of me as this soft, materialistic, and deluded kid, yet they can turn around to their friends and brag about the same shit they criticize me for.

Though I told my parents they are going on a European cruise in 2 years (30th anniversary) on me, so that sort of placated them

I don't get this mentality at all. Some of my friends have a condescending attitude about their thriftiness. They act like buying a nice suit-- and really, Brooks Brothers suits aren't crazy expensive, they're just "nice"-- is motivated by pure vanity. Apparently they don't understand that it's completely inappropriate to wear a $200 suit to your six-figure salary job (especially in a conservative profession like law).

[Anonymous User]

My parents are very happy for me in general (though I can tell they are confused as to why some kid with zero experience should be making so much right out of school). But they are happy for me nonetheless. We are Jews, so parents need to be able to brag about their kids to their friends. So in general, and externally, they are very supportive and happy for me, know how important it is to start at one of these big firms since it will hopefully set me up for a successful career, etc.

Where they get "jealous" is when I focus too much on the material shit. We are and always have been a middle-class family who was smart with money and I was taught the value of things. My parents get "resentful" a bit when I go against those lessons. For example, I will say how I'm thinking about buying a Brooks Brothers suit during my summer SA as a treat, and my parents will think I'm a misguided and lost fool, totally going against what they taught me. My dad will go on about how he never spent more than $200 for a suit in his life, and that its about the quality of the work you do, not the brand of suit or shoe you wear. So they now think of me as this soft, materialistic, and deluded kid, yet they can turn around to their friends and brag about the same shit they criticize me for.

Though I told my parents they are going on a European cruise in 2 years (30th anniversary) on me, so that sort of placated them

I don't get this mentality at all. Some of my friends have a condescending attitude about their thriftiness. They act like buying a nice suit-- and really, Brooks Brothers suits aren't crazy expensive, they're just "nice"-- is motivated by pure vanity. Apparently they don't understand that it's completely inappropriate to wear a $200 suit to your six-figure salary job (especially in a conservative profession like law).

My dad is old school about this stuff. He still uses the same $50 buck briefcase he got for his college graduation in 1980, gets his suits at Syms, shoes wherever there is a sale, etc. He doesn't have to do this of course. He makes more than enough money to treat himself, but he just sees absolutely no need, and just goes purely functional. He is the extreme end of the spectrum when it comes to the "so long as you are clean, and your clothes are well tailored" opinion. He gets his suits impeccably tailored, and shines his shoes all the freaking time, so he always looks good. But he sees anything above functional as needless vanity. He has been with the same company for 30 years, and is essentially the top person in his department now, so he of course has no need to impress anyone, and I think he just superimposes that attitude on me.

Though TBF, of the 3 suits I wore to OCI, one was a hand-me-down, and another was purchased at Kohls, and its not like that stopped me from racking up a bunch of top firm offers. The suits were perfectly tailored, and really did look good, so I can understand where my dad is coming from. But I get what you are saying that, once you actually start working, rocking the cheap stuff like that may not be as appropriate.

[Anonymous User]

When exactly did $160K become A LOT of money?? Granted, you probably can say that you are not one of the great unwashed and you may not feel the need to go stick up the local 7-11, but no, it is not A LOT of money.

[LawIdiot86]

My parents are very happy for me in general (though I can tell they are confused as to why some kid with zero experience should be making so much right out of school). But they are happy for me nonetheless. We are Jews, so parents need to be able to brag about their kids to their friends. So in general, and externally, they are very supportive and happy for me, know how important it is to start at one of these big firms since it will hopefully set me up for a successful career, etc.

Where they get "jealous" is when I focus too much on the material shit. We are and always have been a middle-class family who was smart with money and I was taught the value of things. My parents get "resentful" a bit when I go against those lessons. For example, I will say how I'm thinking about buying a Brooks Brothers suit during my summer SA as a treat, and my parents will think I'm a misguided and lost fool, totally going against what they taught me. My dad will go on about how he never spent more than $200 for a suit in his life, and that its about the quality of the work you do, not the brand of suit or shoe you wear. So they now think of me as this soft, materialistic, and deluded kid, yet they can turn around to their friends and brag about the same shit they criticize me for.

Though I told my parents they are going on a European cruise in 2 years (30th anniversary) on me, so that sort of placated them

I don't get this mentality at all. Some of my friends have a condescending attitude about their thriftiness. They act like buying a nice suit-- and really, Brooks Brothers suits aren't crazy expensive, they're just "nice"-- is motivated by pure vanity. Apparently they don't understand that it's completely inappropriate to wear a $200 suit to your six-figure salary job (especially in a conservative profession like law).

I got hired at my V50 firm in a major market in a $150 suit, $20 shirt, and $15 tie with the same dress shoes I've had for the last 5 years... Are the standards that different for SAs then when you actually are working there?

[Kronk]

When exactly did $160K become A LOT of money?? Granted, you probably can say that you are not one of the great unwashed and you may not feel the need to go stick up the local 7-11, but no, it is not A LOT of money.

Yeah, I think the poverty line is $158,500.

[Anonymous User]

When exactly did $160K become A LOT of money?? Granted, you probably can say that you are not one of the great unwashed and you may not feel the need to go stick up the local 7-11, but no, it is not A LOT of money.

Lol, of the dozens and dozens of people I know (family, friends, family friends, etc.), I can think of just one that makes above 160K, and she is a doctor. When did 160K become a lot of money? When was it ever NOT a lot of money? Not sure where you grew up, but it definitely wasn't in my area.

[turkishswat]

I would take 40 hours at 90-100K for life (corrected for inflation) and be VERY fucking happy.

Very fucking credited response.

[Anonymous User]

Yeah, I think the poverty line is $158,500.

Not saying $158.5 is poverty. At best your parents will think that you are trying to do good. But I doubt if $160K will make you the family icon.

[Anonymous User]

.

[20130312]

HEY MOM, U JELLY OF MY CASH MONS?? TROLLOLOLOL

[Na_Swatch]

the thing with asian parents is that they're greedy and will only be happy with their children's success if the success can be attributed back to the parents. otherwise, they tend to resent their children.

I'm so glad my asian parents aren't asian

Just like how some of my jewish friends have parents that so aren't jewish. My jewish parents are definitely jewish though

Could be wrong here, but I think the point is that it's just a shitty generalization.

Wow terrible generalization and couldn't be further from the truth:

The more accurate generalization (and yes this is a slight stereotype but it tends to be true for more asian families due to whole demographic trend of immigrants/ culture/ etc.) is that Asian parents are more likely to emphasize the importance of education and focus quite a lot on their children's success.

The flip-side of this is that Asian parents are genuinely proud of their children's accomplishments. Why would they resent accomplishments if they wanted their children to succeed in the first place? You could argue that perhaps they place too much value in this, but to argue they feel resentful would be wrong for the vast majority.