White Collar Criminal Defense Forum

[Anonymous User]

1L here trying to figure out how to get into this field - I've looked at some of the law firms I'm interested in and they are either really hard to get a job with, or just don't have a big white collar defense department. (Covington, WilliamsConnolly, WilmerHale) - so, what other law firms, not as prestigious as those, have good white collar defense practices ? and how do I go about to get into this field? Thanks for the advice.

[spleenworship]

Isn't the answer to this "Biglaw" ?

[20130312]

White Collare Criminal Defense

Dude, collar*

[EvelynS]

Start with getting litigation experience first. I think you probably noticed that most W/C defense attorneys are former prosecutors. It is good to start with government agencies like DA offices, SEC, FINRA, but these are also hard to get into. Good luck!

[Detrox]

Sullivan & Cromwell, Debevoise & Plimpton...nvm, just go read chambers...

[The Duck]

You need the grades and school for BigLaw in DC. That's is where virtually all firms have their WC practice...for obvious reasons.

[EvelynS]

I think NYC has even more W/C criminal defense firms due to Wall Street

[The Duck]

I think NYC has even more W/C criminal defense firms due to Wall Street

As far as I know, those are run from DC as that's where the DOJ is and they are routinely negotiating with main justice for these kinds of cases. I'm sure there are some WC people there but at all of the firms I interviewed with that group was HQ'd in DC.

[Cinderella]

School/grades for biglaw --> Biglaw --> AUSA --> private practice (solo --> firm; or just to the firm). I doubt you'd need DC biglaw, but it would probably be really beneficial. I also can't imagine a biglaw firm would let you touch a criminal case as an associate.

Or, you can just be a regular private criminal defense attorney, get a good rep, and let the politicians come to you when they get bribed.

[Anonymous User]

So do you have to go to Big Law before doing AUSA, or do people go straight to AUSA?

[kalvano]

So do you have to go to Big Law before doing AUSA, or do people go straight to AUSA?

AUSA doesn't hire straight out of law school save through DOJ Honors, which can be harder to get than prestigious Biglaw.

[NoleinNY]

So do you have to go to Big Law before doing AUSA, or do people go straight to AUSA?

AUSA doesn't hire straight out of law school save through DOJ Honors, which can be harder to get than prestigious Biglaw.

This, although biglaw -> ausa isn't necessarily the only way. I met an ausa who work usao his 2L, ADA as a new lawyer, and back to usao

[kalvano]

So do you have to go to Big Law before doing AUSA, or do people go straight to AUSA?

AUSA doesn't hire straight out of law school save through DOJ Honors, which can be harder to get than prestigious Biglaw.

This, although biglaw -> ausa isn't necessarily the only way. I met an ausa who work usao his 2L, ADA as a new lawyer, and back to usao

I'm interning at the USAO right now, and it seems split about 60/40 between former Biglaw people and former ADA's. Both will get you into the USAO, and both have their strengths and weaknesses. If you want to get looked at quicker, ADA is the best route since they get substantive experience much faster.

[Anonymous User]

What kind of law do most people who went the route of BigLaw do? Just straight up civil litigation?

Also, dumb question, but do you apply to DOJ honors as a 2L or a 3L?

[spleenworship]

This, although biglaw -> ausa isn't necessarily the only way. I met an ausa who work usao his 2L, ADA as a new lawyer, and back to usao

That might be my plan.

[Reprisal]

Please don't defend white collar criminals.

[Tangerine Gleam]

Please don't defend white collar criminals.

How do we know that they're criminals until they've been defended, bro?

[bk1]

.

[Reprisal]

How do we know that they're criminals until they've been defended, bro?

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=145834

My crim pro professor gave us an interesting statistic the other day:

One recent year, there were 76,827 defendants in federal criminal court; of those, 66,103 pled guilty or nolo contendere. Of those that went to trial:
- 2,851 were convicted
□ Within that 2,851, 2,259 were convicted by juries, 592 by bench trial
- 700+ had cases dismissed
- 723 were acquitted

Err on the side of right.

[rad lulz]

.

[bk1]

What kind of law do most people who went the route of BigLaw do? Just straight up civil litigation?

Also, dumb question, but do you apply to DOJ honors as a 2L or a 3L?

2L

3L bro, or after clerkship. See some other eligibility requirements.

http://www.justice.gov/careers/legal/en ... ty.html#a1

My bad, I thought he meant SLIP.

[impressivekowalski]

I believe making your mark as an AUSA is TCR if you want to practice within a big firm, and still you will need to graduate from a top school for them to take you seriously. Keep in mind the majority of "White Collar Criminal Defense" attorneys at those firms don't really spend much of their time doing that kind of work. They have the requisite experience, but really the big firms don't attract white collar criminal defendants who were not previously associated with the firm - so the defense attorneys are only there to protect members of their corporate clients when they mess up. If you really want to do criminal defense work and get paid for it then you need to make a name for yourself and set up your own shop IMO.

[20160810]

Please don't defend white collar criminals.

This should be good.

[The Duck]

I believe making your mark as an AUSA is TCR if you want to practice within a big firm, and still you will need to graduate from a top school for them to take you seriously. Keep in mind the majority of "White Collar Criminal Defense" attorneys at those firms don't really spend much of their time doing that kind of work. They have the requisite experience, but really the big firms don't attract white collar criminal defendants who were not previously associated with the firm - so the defense attorneys are only there to protect members of their corporate clients when they mess up. If you really want to do criminal defense work and get paid for it then you need to make a name for yourself and set up your own shop IMO.

This isn't true. They do a lot of FCPA compliance work, including investigations,establishing peremptory programs, educating client's employees, etc. They also do investigations after major workplace accidents, etc to determine liability. This may not be what you think of as defense work but in the white collar context it's a large part of the industry.

[Tangerine Gleam]

How do we know that they're criminals until they've been defended, bro?

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=145834

My crim pro professor gave us an interesting statistic the other day:

One recent year, there were 76,827 defendants in federal criminal court; of those, 66,103 pled guilty or nolo contendere. Of those that went to trial:
- 2,851 were convicted
□ Within that 2,851, 2,259 were convicted by juries, 592 by bench trial
- 700+ had cases dismissed
- 723 were acquitted

Err on the side of right.

By this logic, one shouldn't work in criminal defense, period, because most criminal defendants are guilty. But if anything, given these statistics, shouldn't we want to make every effort to defend against a state which is very successful in securing convictions? How else do you those 1000+ people mentioned above got acquitted or had their cases dismissed?

OP, if anything, people like this should motivate you to *definitely* work in criminal defense. Lots of black-and-white, right-and-wrong hard chargers out there.