What Would You Choose? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Anon because based on a true story.

Option 1: Associate Midlaw. Low 6 figures + extremely generous benefits. 1900-2000 hours.

Option 2: Associate Smallaw (5-50 people). 85-105k Depending on personal (business generated if any) and firm (gross moneys received) performance. No benefits. No billable requirement but workload would likely be similar to a firm with 1800 expected. Instant management responsibility, decent chance of taking over the firm some day. Firm is quite profitable.

I ask for teh thoughts of teh interwebz in this matter.

[Anonymous User]

Option 1

[dixon02]

Anon because based on a true story.

Option 1: Associate Midlaw. Low 6 figures + extremely generous benefits. 1900-2000 hours.

Option 2: Associate Smallaw (5-50 people). 85-105k Depending on personal (business generated if any) and firm (gross moneys received) performance. No benefits. No billable requirement but workload would likely be similar to a firm with 1800 expected. Instant management responsibility, decent chance of taking over the firm some day. Firm is quite profitable.

I ask for teh thoughts of teh interwebz in this matter.

Bolded would make the decision easy for me.

[bdubs]

Assuming that "low six figures" means something along the lines of 110, you would be risking $25,000 in compensation for an expectation that you would work 100-200 hours more per year (assuming that admin tasks are fixed). This means you would be giving up $125-250 per hour in compensation to go to the small firm with arguably better tasks/responsibilities.

It just doesn't seem very rational to choose Option 2.

[ben4847]

Option 1

[Anonymous User]

Assuming that "low six figures" means something along the lines of 110, you would be risking $25,000 in compensation for an expectation that you would work 100-200 hours more per year (assuming that admin tasks are fixed). This means you would be giving up $125-250 per hour in compensation to go to the small firm with arguably better tasks/responsibilities.

It just doesn't seem very rational to choose Option 2.

Your assumption of income is a good one. The tempting thing is (1) not being anyone's b****. Technically the managing attorney of the firm would have authority over me but he isn't real involved in the day-to-day layering. Also, I'd have a fair amount of say over what my schedule is, how the firm is run etc since most of the individuals that work there aren't attorneys or are coverage attorneys and not associates (2) I wants me my own firm.

[Cupidity]

The fact you are asking this makes me believe that you imagine the work at the second firm to be better, is that so? I mean, sure, its several thousand dollars a year difference, but if the practice is much cooler, and you are working fewer hours, I'd say go for it. I'd take a cool enough job at $80k over a larger firm at $120k any day.

[Cupidity]

Keep in mind, everyone says, "suck it up and take the money for a few years then lateral or exit and do something cooler. . ." by that point you are 30, who cares how much money you have when you are 30, you are old, life sucks regardless.

[Anonymous User]

The fact you are asking this makes me believe that you imagine the work at the second firm to be better, is that so? I mean, sure, its several thousand dollars a year difference, but if the practice is much cooler, and you are working fewer hours, I'd say go for it. I'd take a cool enough job at $80k over a larger firm at $120k any day.

The second firm is way cool. Real law and order shit. I know this because I've worked there. The second firm I am going to be an SA at so I have no objective way of assessing. It seems like a good place and I've heard from everyone that the people are really nice. The work seems to be interesting but more paperwork and than the first firm (I'd rather do other sorts of legal work than paperwork).

Keep in mind, everyone says, "suck it up and take the money for a few years then lateral or exit and do something cooler. . ." by that point you are 30, who cares how much money you have when you are 30, you are old, life sucks regardless.

Lol.

[Anonymous User]

How likely is "hours creep"?

Only take Option 2 if you think that the work (regardless of hours and pay) is really that much better.

The hours will probably creep up, thus you will be earning less money for the same, if not more, hours (right now you're citing 1800 vs. 1900-2000; not that big a difference over the course of a year) - so the work at Option 2 should be something you really like.

[Anonymous User]

How likely is "hours creep"?

Only take Option 2 if you think that the work (regardless of hours and pay) is really that much better.

The hours will probably creep up, thus you will be earning less money for the same, if not more, hours (right now you're citing 1800 vs. 1900-2000; not that big a difference over the course of a year) - so the work at Option 2 should be something you really like.

Its possible but I've never seen anyone at place 1 stay past 5:00. I mean, if I'm gunning for eventually managing or taking over the firm maybe I'll purposefully engage in some hours creep to make myself indispensable.

[keg411]

Keep in mind, everyone says, "suck it up and take the money for a few years then lateral or exit and do something cooler. . ." by that point you are 30, who cares how much money you have when you are 30, you are old, life sucks regardless.

[ben4847]

Keep in mind, everyone says, "suck it up and take the money for a few years then lateral or exit and do something cooler. . ." by that point you are 30, who cares how much money you have when you are 30, you are old, life sucks regardless.

I'll be 30 by the time I graduate. May as well go to the big firm.

[chiwachiwa]

Keep in mind, everyone says, "suck it up and take the money for a few years then lateral or exit and do something cooler. . ." by that point you are 30, who cares how much money you have when you are 30, you are old, life sucks regardless.

I'll be 30 by the time I graduate. May as well go to the big firm glue factory.

[traehekat]

Option 1, absolutely. Why not make this a poll, btw?

[vamedic03]

Assuming that "low six figures" means something along the lines of 110, you would be risking $25,000 in compensation for an expectation that you would work 100-200 hours more per year (assuming that admin tasks are fixed). This means you would be giving up $125-250 per hour in compensation to go to the small firm with arguably better tasks/responsibilities.

It just doesn't seem very rational to choose Option 2.

Your assumption of income is a good one. The tempting thing is (1) not being anyone's b****. Technically the managing attorney of the firm would have authority over me but he isn't real involved in the day-to-day layering. Also, I'd have a fair amount of say over what my schedule is, how the firm is run etc since most of the individuals that work there aren't attorneys or are coverage attorneys and not associates (2) I wants me my own firm.

Anyone who thinks they are ready as a new grad to do "day-to-day lawyering" without any supervision is either foolhardy or delusional.

[Cupidity]

Keep in mind, everyone says, "suck it up and take the money for a few years then lateral or exit and do something cooler. . ." by that point you are 30, who cares how much money you have when you are 30, you are old, life sucks regardless.

It just bums me out to see how many of my friends are going to live miserable lives from the time they are 25-35, just so they can have a higher standard of living when they hit 40, and have kids.

I worked minimum wage in college and lived on the beach. Life can be awesome without a ton of money.

[Anonymous User]

Assuming that "low six figures" means something along the lines of 110, you would be risking $25,000 in compensation for an expectation that you would work 100-200 hours more per year (assuming that admin tasks are fixed). This means you would be giving up $125-250 per hour in compensation to go to the small firm with arguably better tasks/responsibilities.

It just doesn't seem very rational to choose Option 2.

Your assumption of income is a good one. The tempting thing is (1) not being anyone's b****. Technically the managing attorney of the firm would have authority over me but he isn't real involved in the day-to-day layering. Also, I'd have a fair amount of say over what my schedule is, how the firm is run etc since most of the individuals that work there aren't attorneys or are coverage attorneys and not associates (2) I wants me my own firm.

Anyone who thinks they are ready as a new grad to do "day-to-day lawyering" without any supervision is either foolhardy or delusional.

Well, I'd still have very experienced paralegals supporting me and access to my boss if I needed advice. So basically, support when I want it without people getting up in my business when I don't.

[vamedic03]

Assuming that "low six figures" means something along the lines of 110, you would be risking $25,000 in compensation for an expectation that you would work 100-200 hours more per year (assuming that admin tasks are fixed). This means you would be giving up $125-250 per hour in compensation to go to the small firm with arguably better tasks/responsibilities.

It just doesn't seem very rational to choose Option 2.

Your assumption of income is a good one. The tempting thing is (1) not being anyone's b****. Technically the managing attorney of the firm would have authority over me but he isn't real involved in the day-to-day layering. Also, I'd have a fair amount of say over what my schedule is, how the firm is run etc since most of the individuals that work there aren't attorneys or are coverage attorneys and not associates (2) I wants me my own firm.

Anyone who thinks they are ready as a new grad to do "day-to-day lawyering" without any supervision is either foolhardy or delusional.

Well, I'd still have very experienced paralegals supporting me and access to my boss if I needed advice. So basically, support when I want it without people getting up in my business when I don't.

It's not about adequate support. It's about adequate supervision. A brand new attorney needs support and supervision. A brand new professional (in any profession) needs supervision to learn both the profession and when they need help. The risk of being a brand new attorney without supervision is not being able to recognize when you need help. And a good supervisor who "gets up in your business" keeps you from committing malpractice.

[Anonymous User]

It's not about adequate support. It's about adequate supervision. A brand new attorney needs support and supervision. A brand new professional (in any profession) needs supervision to learn both the profession and when they need help. The risk of being a brand new attorney without supervision is not being able to recognize when you need help. And a good supervisor who "gets up in your business" keeps you from committing malpractice.

A good point, although most attorneys at this level (though obviously not the ones in my office) get by with such crap work that its hard to think what actually might qualify as malpractice.

[TopGun1234]

Keep in mind, everyone says, "suck it up and take the money for a few years then lateral or exit and do something cooler. . ." by that point you are 30, who cares how much money you have when you are 30, you are old, life sucks regardless.

It just bums me out to see how many of my friends are going to live miserable lives from the time they are 25-35, just so they can have a higher standard of living when they hit 40, and have kids.

I worked minimum wage in college and lived on the beach. Life can be awesome without a ton of money.

Hey cupidity - looking at your other posts it seems like you too wanted a big law job. I bet anything you couldn't get one and now you are just being bitter.

[SUCO]

Keep in mind, everyone says, "suck it up and take the money for a few years then lateral or exit and do something cooler. . ." by that point you are 30, who cares how much money you have when you are 30, you are old, life sucks regardless.

It just bums me out to see how many of my friends are going to live miserable lives from the time they are 25-35, just so they can have a higher standard of living when they hit 40, and have kids.

I worked minimum wage in college and lived on the beach. Life can be awesome without a ton of money.

Hey cupidity - looking at your other posts it seems like you too wanted a big law job. I bet anything you couldn't get one and now you are just being bitter.

First post and bringing the heat!