Federal Judicial Externship Forum

[Anonymous User]

I realize that internship and externship are interchangeable. My school calls it an externship.

I am a 1L , top 5%, at T 30 who was just offered a summer externship with a federal judge.

Career Services says I shouldn't even think twice about it. I want to accept. I just wanna do my research.

Goal is biglaw (probably).

Do I accept?

Other options are RA position helping revise a casebook with one of the leading Business Law professors in the country.

Or a paid position at a nonprofit.

I applied late to large firms and doubt my chances of landing a summer associate position.

It's still very early in the hiring cycle.

[traydeuce]

I'd actually turn it down. The externship won't increase your chances of biglaw in the slightest. Paid position at the nonprofit might even be more helpful, more experience lawyering as opposed to quasi-clerking. If you're interested in clerking, however, good experience, not that it'll be more than a tiny boost to your clerkship app.

[kalvano]

Paid position. Why? Because it's paid, and what you do doesn't matter.

[legalese_retard]

I vote externship. If you don't know if you want to do a clerkship after graduation, this will be the best opportunity for you to pursue to find out. Plus it looks good on your resume and biglaw firm employers do take notice. Obviously if your grades aren't high enough, the externship won't matter, but it is something interviewers like to talk about. Finally, the judge you extern for will have great connections within the legal community. I know several former externs who got jobs as a result of their judges' recommendations.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for the suggestions thus far.

Just got an official offer for the RA position... hmmm...

[ilovesf]

When the judge offered you the externship what did he/she say? Unless your judge left it in your field to decide, you're not usually supposed to turn down a judge.

[traydeuce]

When the judge offered you the externship what did he/she say? Unless your judge left it in your field to decide, you're not usually supposed to turn down a judge.

OP, go read some Duncan Kennedy or something, disabuse yourself of any judge worship you may have, and turn down the judge. Nothing happens to people who turn down judges' internship offers. Or clerkship offers for that matter. I mean, so long as you don't practice in that part of the world.

[Anonymous User]

I'm just curious why the summer research assistant position for the prominent Business Law professor doesnt seem to be a winner. Career services AND a family friend in biglaw both say it should be a last resort, even behind a DA or PD internship. I understand I wouldn't get much writing/lawyering experience, but wouldn't it be a great contact?

[wiseowl]

I'm just curious why the summer research assistant position for the prominent Business Law professor doesnt seem to be a winner. Career services AND a family friend in biglaw both say it should be a last resort, even behind a DA or PD internship. I understand I wouldn't get much writing/lawyering experience, but wouldn't it be a great contact?

Probably because the way the poll option is phrased it looks like "business" professor, as in at a business school.

The prof can only do so much for you.

The "don't turn down a judge" argument has been hashed on here a million times. I'll just say I'm in the camp that you don't reject a judge's offer, and you shouldn't have applied unless you were ready to accept. The time to "do your research" was prior to applying. People laugh at that, but hey, your call. You also need to check with your career services. It was suggested to me there would be OCI repercussions if I turned the judge down.

[yale2011]

.

[Anonymous User]

The judge I accepted a summer internship with said that if something better came along to just let him know as soon as I could. I thought that was very considerate. It certainly takes the drama out of interviewing with law firms, knowing that I have permission to opt out should I receive a 1L SA. You have to wonder why all judges aren’t that thoughtful.

[Judge Philip Banks]

The judge I accepted a summer internship with said that if something better came along to just let him know as soon as I could. I thought that was very considerate. It certainly takes the drama out of interviewing with law firms, knowing that I have permission to opt out should I receive a 1L SA. You have to wonder why all judges aren’t that thoughtful.

It's a trap.

[Geetar Man]

The judge I accepted a summer internship with said that if something better came along to just let him know as soon as I could. I thought that was very considerate. It certainly takes the drama out of interviewing with law firms, knowing that I have permission to opt out should I receive a 1L SA. You have to wonder why all judges aren’t that thoughtful.

It's a trap.

lol, possibly. I have no evidence for doing either (and I'm an 0L), but anecdotally people always say not to turn down a judge (not just any judge, but federal judges in specific)

[theavrock]

[ilovesf]

The judge I accepted a summer internship with said that if something better came along to just let him know as soon as I could. I thought that was very considerate. It certainly takes the drama out of interviewing with law firms, knowing that I have permission to opt out should I receive a 1L SA. You have to wonder why all judges aren’t that thoughtful.

The judge I'll be with this summer also told me I could interview with another judge and let her know if I wanted the spot or not, she was really nice. Some judges won't care, but I think to be safe people should assume they will care unless they say otherwise.

[dood]

I'd actually turn it down. The externship won't increase your chances of biglaw in the slightest. Paid position at the nonprofit might even be more helpful, more experience lawyering as opposed to quasi-clerking. If you're interested in clerking, however, good experience, not that it'll be more than a tiny boost to your clerkship app.

naw man.

1. phone calls to hiring partners from a judge certainly helps. my fed judge prolly got me 5+ interviews i didnt qualify for due to my GPA.

2. i come to opposite conclusion on non-profit. at a non-profit u are writing memos, usually based largely on policy and usually arguing positions with zero practical application (i.e. a last ditch attempt to grant habeas). on other hand, judge provides u with real insight on how courtroom works, experience writing bench memos and proposed orders that deal with a variety of concrete legal issues - practical substantive experience. dont forget judges' motivation to have interns is almost purely to teach and mentor a younger generation of lawyers.

[traydeuce]

^^ I mean, I've had two judicial internships, and judges making calls for interns, even if they're thrilled with your work, isn't the norm. Nor is it the case, in my experience, that judges hire interns in order to mentor a new generation of lawyers. They hire them to work on stuff the clerks don't have time to work on.

[cantaboot]

agree with tray this time.

[Lincoln]

^^ I mean, I've had two judicial internships, and judges making calls for interns, even if they're thrilled with your work, isn't the norm. Nor is it the case, in my experience, that judges hire interns in order to mentor a new generation of lawyers. They hire them to work on stuff the clerks don't have time to work on.

It may not be the norm, but it does happen, and interning for a judge in a major market can be a big help at OCI. Also, some judges allow interns to write judicial opinions, which is a whole lot more useful than non-profit memo-writing experience (at least if you want to go into biglaw litigation).