Stanford Law %iles Forum

[Anonymous User]

1Ls are still getting grades back. Anyone know what the breakdown is after first 5 courses? (i.e. 5 Hs = ___%; 4 Hs = ___%, and so on down to 0 Hs)

Since these are all big (60 student) doctrinal classes with a hard curve (30% = H) and no self-selection advantages, my intuition is that after 1 quarter, 1 H = top 40%; 2 H = top 25%; 3 H = top 10%; 4 H = top 5%; 5 H = Top 1%, but I don't know...

[Anonymous User]

1Ls are still getting grades back. Anyone know what the breakdown is after first 5 courses? (i.e. 5 Hs = ___%; 4 Hs = ___%, and so on down to 0 Hs)

Since these are all big (60 student) doctrinal classes with a hard curve (30% = H) and no self-selection advantages, my intuition is that after 1 quarter, 1 H = top 40%; 2 H = top 25%; 3 H = top 10%; 4 H = top 5%; 5 H = Top 1%, but I don't know...

It's likely a broader group with 1 H (maybe top 60% or so), then top 1/4 has 2, top 15% 3 Hs, then top 5% is 4+. I would be surprised if more than 1-2 people had 5 Hs; it requires a whole lot of luck and an immense amount of skill on 4 exams, plus then to have put the work into LRW and figured out what the professor wanted.

[Anonymous User]

Grades tend to cluster. I'd guess more than 1-2 people have 5 Hs (I think you might be closer to correct in terms of the number of people who finish the whole year with all Hs) and in fact probably 7-10 percent of the class (two-three people per section?) gets 4 or 5 Hs.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know this information for HLS students?

[Anonymous User]

It's too early to stress--or even think--about grades yet. Wait, at the very least, until you have all of your 1L grades. If you have mostly Hs right now, keep on doing what you've done. If you have mostly Ps, go and talk to your professors to see how you can improve.

But, for the sake of pleasing our 1Ls, if I had to guess, I'd guess the following:

1H: median
2H: top 40%
3H: top 25%
4H: top 10%
5H: top 5%.

And, here's how that all approximately plays into the end of 1L year (e.g., what you're shooting for going into OCI):

10+H: top seven or so people (this varies by class--the current 3L class has a wider spread of Hs than the class that graduated last year, so there are fewer people with just about all Hs)
9H: top 5%
8H: top 10%
6-7H: top 33%.

My sense about post-1L grades at Stanford is that there are <5 people in every class with <5 Ps by the end of 3L. A 2:1 H:P ratio puts you high in the top 10%. The top 10% cutoff is probably at about 60% Hs, and top third is probably about half Hs. I have no guesses about median, although I imagine it's substantially lower.*

*there are no actual class standings, so how you calculate approximate class standings will depend on how much weight you want to put on Hs versus Ps (e.g., is someone who has 24Hs and 12Ps "higher" in the class than someone who has 18Hs and 9Ps? Some judges count the Hs, some judges count the Ps, and other judges look at the ratio.) and how much weight you want to give book prizes. My experience is that generally the more Hs people have, the more book prizes they have in a roughly linear correlation, so for most people you can ignore book prizes and end up with the same results (e.g., most people in the top 10% have at least one book prize, most people in the top 5% have at least two book prizes, etc). Outside of the couple uber-feeders, most people don't really look at book prizes, which is fair because a lot of classes at Stanford don't give them out (surprise, right?)--you can be the top performer in several classes and yet receive no book prizes, just b/c the classes you happened to ace were not book prize eligible. Also, a fair number of students take classes outside of the law school and therefore have Hs, Ps, MPs (mandatory pass--e.g., H was not an option), and As, Bs, Cs, etc. My sense is that most judges and employers treat As like Hs, and anything lower like Ps, but obviously some weight "real" grades more heavily, while others only use them as tiebreakers.

[Anonymous User]

Gunners gonna gun. grades don't matter

[Anonymous User]

For those of us wanting to go straight into practice at a large firm in LA/SF, any idea what kinds of grades (i.e. how many H's after 1L) are needed for a 2L summer associateship at any of the top few NorCal/SoCal firms (like O'Melveny in LA, MoFo in SF, etc.).

[Anonymous User]

My sense is that if you have a handful of Hs by the end of 1L you should be fine for the CA firms out of Stanford. You have some long shot for CA biglaw even with no Hs, although your best bet in that case would probably be NYC.

Any other current Stanford students want to weigh in?

[Anonymous User]

My sense is that if you have a handful of Hs by the end of 1L you should be fine for the CA firms out of Stanford. You have some long shot for CA biglaw even with no Hs, although your best bet in that case would probably be NYC.

Any other current Stanford students want to weigh in?

This is probably right, but also important to note that especially in the Bay Area, other factors, including regional ties, are just as important as grades.

[abacus]

My sense is that if you have a handful of Hs by the end of 1L you should be fine for the CA firms out of Stanford. You have some long shot for CA biglaw even with no Hs, although your best bet in that case would probably be NYC.

Any other current Stanford students want to weigh in?

This is probably right, but also important to note that especially in the Bay Area, other factors, including regional ties, are just as important as grades.

Is it hard for a Stanford student originally from the East Coast to convince a firm that they want to work in SF? I would have thought that choosing to go to law school in the area is enough of an indicator...

[Anonymous User]

abacus--it's enough of an indicator if you're an average candidate (or even somewhat below average), but if you have basically all Ps, extra ties to the Bay Area can push you over the edge for a firm that your grades might otherwise be a stretch for.

[Anonymous User]

Check this out from the Fall:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=163408

[Anonymous User]

2 Hs here. Top 1/3 feels about right.

Given that I didn't gun like many of my sectionmates and actually tried to pursue my interests out of class/enjoy life, I'll take it.