Birmingham Big Law From Non-Southern T-14 Forum

[Real Madrid]

So, I posed a similar but different question several months ago, and I wanted to just make this a new topic. Is Birmingham a viable back-up option for Big Law from non-southern (read: Duke and UVA) T-14s if you have ties to the area? Specifically, I'd be referring to Berkeley or Michigan.

I understand some of the Birmingham firms have a tendency to question people's interest if they didn't go to Bama or Cumberland, but would attending a T-14 be a legitimate answer?

[Anonymous User]

Birmingham firms hire a lot of people from T14 schools, but you absolutely need VERY strong ties to get a job here.

A large portion of Bradley Arant's/Balch & Bingham's SA classes are from T14 schools, fwiw.

[Real Madrid]

Ok, so without completely outing myself, would having grown up in Montgomery for my firat 18 years and done UG at one of the two big state schools be considered very strong ties? Also, all of my immediate family lives in the state.

And I knew they hired at UVA and Duke, but wasn't sure about other T14s like Boalt and Mich.

[Anonymous User]

For most firms, yes. Are you set on Birmingham? Most of the bigger firms also have offices in Montgomery.

There was at least one Mich SA in Birmingham last summer.

[sunynp]

I asked this question a couple of times and am having trouble getting an answer. Soi apologize, but may e someone in thus thread knows the answer- the question is: how many biglaw SAs are there in Birmingham that are open to 2ls that lead to permanent offers? The only number I can come up with is somewhere between 60 to 30? But that is based on old data.

[2LLLL]

http://www.nalpdirectory.com

Balch & Bingham - 8 expected for 2011
Bradley Arant - 22 expected for 2011 (maybe firm-wide?)
Burr & Forman - 10 expected for 2011
Cabaniss Johson - 2 in 2010
Haskell Slaughter - unknown
Johnson Barton - 3 expected for 2011


Just based on NALP's data, it looks like 40-50, though Bradley Arant's numbers seem to be firm-wide because 22 SAs seems like a lot for one office of a 125 attorney firm. So maybe 30-40

[Anonymous User]

http://www.nalpdirectory.com

Balch & Bingham - 8 expected for 2011
Bradley Arant - 22 expected for 2011 (maybe firm-wide?)
Burr & Forman - 10 expected for 2011
Cabaniss Johson - 2 in 2010
Haskell Slaughter - unknown
Johnson Barton - 3 expected for 2011


Just based on NALP's data, it looks like 40-50, though Bradley Arant's numbers seem to be firm-wide because 22 SAs seems like a lot for one office of a 125 attorney firm. So maybe 30-40

There are 194 attorneys in Bradley's Birmingham office and the firm has about 370 attorneys total. Last summer there were 46 SAs in the Birmingham office (1Ls & 2Ls). You also forgot to include Maynard, which isn't on NALP, but traditionally hires a similar number of SAs as Bradley.

That being said, it's probably easier to get a 1L SA than it is to get a 2L SA because the 2L spots are mostly filled by returning 1Ls.

[Grizz]

There are no backups ITE.

Also, you need to get a 1L SA. They're probably not gonna OCI at your school, so do your stuff now.

HTH.

[Anonymous User]

Didn't read that you were using Birmingham as a back-up until now. Grizz is right, that isn't going to work. Going to a school out of the South and applying to firms not in Alabama are going to make recruiters suspicious.

We hire plenty of people from T14s that want to be here, plus grads from Alabama and other southern schools.

[2LLLL]

There are 194 attorneys in Bradley's Birmingham office and the firm has about 370 attorneys total. Last summer there were 46 SAs in the Birmingham office (1Ls & 2Ls). You also forgot to include Maynard, which isn't on NALP, but traditionally hires a similar number of SAs as Bradley.

That being said, it's probably easier to get a 1L SA than it is to get a 2L SA because the 2L spots are mostly filled by returning 1Ls.

I stand corrected- TBF though I just copied the numbers straight off of NALP, since the closest I've ever been to Alabama is Orlando, FL.

46 SAs?!? Really? Is the economy in Alabama booming or something? A lot of really big firms only bring in 120ish IIRC.... This makes me really jealous. Similar sized firms in my area hired like 3-4 people for SAs last year when I was a 2L....

[Anonymous User]

There are 194 attorneys in Bradley's Birmingham office and the firm has about 370 attorneys total. Last summer there were 46 SAs in the Birmingham office (1Ls & 2Ls). You also forgot to include Maynard, which isn't on NALP, but traditionally hires a similar number of SAs as Bradley.

That being said, it's probably easier to get a 1L SA than it is to get a 2L SA because the 2L spots are mostly filled by returning 1Ls.

I stand corrected- TBF though I just copied the numbers straight off of NALP, since the closest I've ever been to Alabama is Orlando, FL.

46 SAs?!? Really? Is the economy in Alabama booming or something? A lot of really big firms only bring in 120ish IIRC.... This makes me really jealous. Similar sized firms in my area hired like 3-4 people for SAs last year when I was a 2L....

no its just they pay their SAs around 1/3 of what a SA would make at a TX, CA, or NY firm

[Anonymous User]

And COL is probably less than 1/3 of NYC or CA with a much lower income tax.

[Anonymous User]

There are no backups ITE.

Also, you need to get a 1L SA. They're probably not gonna OCI at your school, so do your stuff now.

HTH.

You do not need a 1L spot; I got one as a 2L with no connections to Alabama. You do want Southern ties of some sort.

To the OP, although you will probably be fine with your incredibly strong Bama ties, I would really lean towards attending UVA or Duke. But again with your ties Michigan or Boalt will be fine. But you need to send out applications to firms as a 1L to prove that you have an interest in Bama firms. I would focus on the big time Bama firms first. They will be the most amiable to an elite out of state school.

[Anonymous User]

There are 194 attorneys in Bradley's Birmingham office and the firm has about 370 attorneys total. Last summer there were 46 SAs in the Birmingham office (1Ls & 2Ls). You also forgot to include Maynard, which isn't on NALP, but traditionally hires a similar number of SAs as Bradley.

That being said, it's probably easier to get a 1L SA than it is to get a 2L SA because the 2L spots are mostly filled by returning 1Ls.

I stand corrected- TBF though I just copied the numbers straight off of NALP, since the closest I've ever been to Alabama is Orlando, FL.

46 SAs?!? Really? Is the economy in Alabama booming or something? A lot of really big firms only bring in 120ish IIRC.... This makes me really jealous. Similar sized firms in my area hired like 3-4 people for SAs last year when I was a 2L....

no its just they pay their SAs around 1/3 of what a SA would make at a TX, CA, or NY firm

Yes they do pay less for the summer salary, but the associate salaries start at 110K. Now that's still not enough to compete with the Texas salaries because of the TX COL combo. But the QOL that you will be living on in Birmingham with 110K STARTING compared to 160K in Cali or NYC is simply incomparable. We're talking not being able to afford a one bedroom apartment in a nice part of town vs. living in a 900 square foot luxury apartment with ease.

[Anonymous User]

You do not need a 1L spot; I got one as a 2L with no connections to Alabama. You do want Southern ties of some sort.

To the OP, although you will probably be fine with your incredibly strong Bama ties, I would really lean towards attending UVA or Duke. But again with your ties Michigan or Boalt will be fine. But you need to send out applications to firms as a 1L to prove that you have an interest in Bama firms. I would focus on the big time Bama firms first. They will be the most amiable to an elite out of state school.

Your experience is not typical and should not be expected for most people.

You are right about big firms though, Bradley Arant especially is arrogant and prestige obsessed. Firms are likely going to less impressed with Michigan/Berkeley than UVA/Duke, though.

[Grizz]

You do not need a 1L spot; I got one as a 2L with no connections to Alabama. You do want Southern ties of some sort.

Agree w previous anon. This is VERY atypical

[sunynp]

So if they really have 46 SAs in one office in Birmingham, how many are 1Ls and how many are 2Ls? Do most people split the summer as it seems common. And, finally, the most important question - how many 2Ls get permanent offers. I think that if there are 46 total and half are 1Ls and half of the 2Ls get hired, we are down to 12 permanent offers from the firm?

It seems confusing to compare Birmingham to other places because getting a SA does not mean you will get a permanent offer by any means. Most other cities (though maybe not the other secondary markets in the South) the firms try to go for 100% offers or as close as they can get.

Birmingham firms are at 50%, if that.

PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong about this, I am really trying to get a handle on the actual number of 2Ls that get permanent offers in Birmingham firms. I think the number is very small, but I can't find data other than NALP.

[Anonymous User]

So if they really have 46 SAs in one office in Birmingham, how many are 1Ls and how many are 2Ls? Do most people split the summer as it seems common. And, finally, the most important question - how many 2Ls get permanent offers. I think that if there are 46 total and half are 1Ls and half of the 2Ls get hired, we are down to 12 permanent offers from the firm?

It seems confusing to compare Birmingham to other places because getting a SA does not mean you will get a permanent offer by any means. Most other cities (though maybe not the other secondary markets in the South) the firms try to go for 100% offers or as close as they can get.

Birmingham firms are at 50%, if that.

PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong about this, I am really trying to get a handle on the actual number of 2Ls that get permanent offers in Birmingham firms. I think the number is very small, but I can't find data other than NALP.

Where are you getting this 50 percent offer thing from? My firm gave offers to almost every summer. And I'm seeing the same sort of offer rates when I check nalp for Bradley. The number of people getting permanent offers is not "very small". Honestly the only real difference in terms of getting a job in a Birmingham firm as opposed to other major markets is that you really want to try to get a 1L spot there, and that firms commonly split. But other than that it's not all that different from any other market when it comes to getting an offer.

And honestly, can someone on here explain why people keep mentioning the 1L thing like it's a negative? What exactly is negative about getting paid as a 1L and it assisting you in your full time employment prospects post grad???? Especially since you generally split when you do it anyway.

[Anonymous User]

Where are you getting this 50 percent offer thing from? My firm gave offers to almost every summer. And I'm seeing the same sort of offer rates when I check nalp for Bradley. The number of people getting permanent offers is not "very small". Honestly the only real difference in terms of getting a job in a Birmingham firm as opposed to other major markets is that you really want to try to get a 1L spot there, and that firms commonly split. But other than that it's not all that different from any other market when it comes to getting an offer.

This. Birmingham firms hire 2Ls at really high rates. My firm gave offers to almost every summer as well and I know this is not unusual.

And honestly, can someone on here explain why people keep mentioning the 1L thing like it's a negative? What exactly is negative about getting paid as a 1L and it assisting you in your full time employment prospects post grad???? Especially since you generally split when you do it anyway.

Also this. Almost ALL Birmingham 1L SAs are paid - this is not the case in other markets.

[sunynp]

Thanks for the replies. I remember high no offer rates from the NALP data that I looked at before. I think it is great to have 1L SAs, I just thought it was required to get a 2L SA.

So all of the SAs means what 23 people got offers from at least one firm. It does seem high that a firm of less than 200 people hires 23 1Ls, but that is great news.

Thanks again,

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for the replies. I remember high no offer rates from the NALP data that I looked at before. I think it is great to have 1L SAs, I just thought it was required to get a 2L SA.

So all of the SAs means what 23 people got offers from at least one firm. It does seem high that a firm of less than 200 people hires 23 1Ls, but that is great news.

Thanks again,

The 22 at Bradley Arant is firm wide - they have offices around the South and in DC and >400 attorneys.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for the replies. I remember high no offer rates from the NALP data that I looked at before. I think it is great to have 1L SAs, I just thought it was required to get a 2L SA.

So all of the SAs means what 23 people got offers from at least one firm. It does seem high that a firm of less than 200 people hires 23 1Ls, but that is great news.

Thanks again,

Don't get me wrong you do generally want to land a 1L summer spot to get a firm job in Birmingham. But again I personally don't see this as a negative considering you don't have work there the whole summer. You should be jumping for joy at the thought of actually having a realistic shot at paying 1L summer work. Targeting Birmingham gives you that opportunity.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for the replies. I remember high no offer rates from the NALP data that I looked at before. I think it is great to have 1L SAs, I just thought it was required to get a 2L SA.

So all of the SAs means what 23 people got offers from at least one firm. It does seem high that a firm of less than 200 people hires 23 1Ls, but that is great news.

Thanks again,

The 22 at Bradley Arant is firm wide - they have offices around the South and in DC and >400 attorneys.

If that's true, no one in their right mind would go to Bradley over the other big Birmingham firms. Something's off here.

[Anonymous User]

--LinkRemoved--

33 in 2011 in the Birmingham office alone, 18 offers made.

[Anonymous User]

http://www.nalpdirectory.com/dledir_search_results.asp

33 in 2011 in the Birmingham office alone, 18 offers made.

Yeah I knew something was fishy.