3L OCI/Employment Search Results: Forum

[Anonymous User]

School: CCN
Market(s): Chicago/Secondary
Approximate class rank: 35%ish
Journal: No
Work experience: No
IP background: No
Summer Associate Position? Yes
Offered? No
Anything else that might have an impact? (diversity, etc. or whatever, really): no
Screening Interviews: 2 (1 from OCI, 1 other)
Mass mails: Maybe 20; also applied to DOJ honors (didn't get any interviews) and other gov't honors programs
Callbacks received: none
Offers: 1 clerkship offer
How many firms just didn't get back with you with a rejection/callback?: a bunch
Clerkship Interview: 2, one offer
Other:

[Anonymous User]

School: CCN
Market(s): NYC/upstate
Approximate class rank: top 1/3
Journal: Yes
Work experience: Yes
IP background: No
Summer Associate Position? No
Offered? N/A
Anything else that might have an impact? (diversity, etc. or whatever, really): no
Screening Interviews: 6 (5 from OCI, 1 other)
Mass mails: 30+ (clerkships, nonprofit programs, federal government, networking emails)
Callbacks received: 1 (clerkship)
Offers: 1 clerkship offer
How many firms just didn't get back with you with a rejection/callback?: a few, i've heard back from all OCI interviews
Clerkship Interview: 2, one offer

[Anonymous User]

School: T20
Market(s): NYC/DC/LA
Approximate class rank: top 1/3
Journal: No
Work experience: Yes
IP background: Yes
Summer Associate Position? No
Offered? N/A
Anything else that might have an impact? (diversity, etc. or whatever, really): no
Screening Interviews: 11 (9 from OCI, 1 clerkship, 1 blind emails)
Mass mails: 100+ (clerkships, firms)
Callbacks received: 3 firms, 1 clerkship
Offers: 1 V20 Offer, 2 rejections (clerkship/mid market firm), 1 pending (mid market)
How many firms just didn't get back with you with a rejection/callback?: OCI firms vanished into the night

My only advice is to stay positive. You are not going to be unemployed for the rest of your life unless you choose to be. Something will come up when the fit is right.

[Anonymous User]

I got on here to find some moral support. Looks like I am not alone in this situation.

Only stats I'm willing to share:
School- Decent Between T7-T10
Had fancy 2L summer job in a legit prestigious firm
Did not receive offer because grades went from A's/B+ 1L year to mostly Bs 2L year with one jackass prof. that gave me a C on a paper. (I may be the only one at my firm to not have got an offer which adds to the embarrassment).
I am paying sticker for school.

I have never failed before, especially not financially.

I am in utter despair right now. I am starting to consider suicide as a more serious option. Only thing that's holding me back is knowing that hearing about my suicide would kill my family. But I don't know what else to do.

I don't want to be broke having to rely on my family to take care of me.

Before Law school, I had no debt, a great job, a healthy savings, my own place, and my own car.

Everyone at my school is so competitive that I can't really even to talk to any of them about it. The shame of losing my job due to grades (which everyone will remember as it is supposedly rare) prevents me from being able to be honest with any of my friends at law school. I don't trust any of the kids here. They're all very self-involved and have difficulty showing compassion for others. The only times they ask about how someone is doing is to have a basis to make themselves feel better. (Don't even think I'm kidding. I can give you a list of names.)

So to those of you in the same boat (or those who have survived this situation), how are you handling it?

[Anonymous User]

Just popped in here to tell you that you're not alone as I, and others I know (at a top, great law school), are in the same boat. It is tough; really, really tough. For a lot of us, it's our first major failure, but even though it feels like the end of the world, it is not. Life goes on, and we'll go on with it.

Please, and this goes for everyone on here feeling the same way, go talk to a counselor immediately. I have so many bright, talented friends who are extremely depressed to the point they're considering suicide right now, and it's really sad that things have gotten to that point. I wish you all the best. Hang in there and PLEASE go to see someone ASAP.

[Anonymous User]

I got on here to find some moral support. Looks like I am not alone in this situation.

Only stats I'm willing to share:
School- Decent Between T7-T10
Had fancy 2L summer job in a legit prestigious firm
Did not receive offer because grades went from A's/B+ 1L year to mostly Bs 2L year with one jackass prof. that gave me a C on a paper. (I may be the only one at my firm to not have got an offer which adds to the embarrassment).

Wait wait...I'm sorry, but can you please explain how this occurred?

You would have likely interviewed with this firm at OCI prior to the start of your 2L year, but you would've conceivably updated them on your transcript as the year progressed, and prior to the summer after 2L (i.e. the summer associate period). Regardless, even if you hadn't updated them, or received all of your Spring 2L grades by the time your internship ended (unlikely it would take that long), I've never heard of an instance where a firm has actually asked to see a transcript at the end of a summer position, much less an instance where said firm asked and then chose not to extend an offer to the student. That would mean they would've had to have requested your updated transcript during the summer, and then chose to deny you in the last week or so of the position. I mean, I suppose it's plausible, but I've simply never heard of that ever happening.

Generally what occurs is that a firm will extend an offer following the 2L summer, and have it be contingent on a few factors (i.e. Bar passage); very few firms explicitly make it known that they'll withdraw the offer if a student's grade's drop, and even then, the drop would have to be notable. Your situation however, is even more draconian: according to you, you were denied an offer mid/end-summer based on grades alone.

For you to have been denied an offer, during your summer associateship, on the basis of a single non-failing letter grade and several average ones, seems implausible.

I don't want to be "that guy," but your situation just seems completely unlikely. At the very least, it seems far more understandable if you weren't extended an offer based on summer performance.

Regardless, if this is true, there's no reason to over-react. Yes, it's an incredibly unfortunate occurrence, and yes, you're probably feeling terrible right now. But merely that this avenue has been closed to you doesn't mean there aren't still opportunities out there. There's no harm in keeping at the job search and mass mailing, even if it may seem unlikely that anyone is still hiring. Moreover, you can always try public interest or federal work (and aim for loan forgiveness), seeking potential clerkships (yes, I'm aware the grades will be an issue), or simply leaving the field of law entirely.

From your own story, it sounds as though you were successful prior to entering law, so there's no reason you wouldn't potentially be able to return if you merely go back to that particular path. You were independent, had a home, car, etc...there's nothing really stopping you from attempting a return. Besides, it's not like the legal profession is a particularly fun one at this point in time.

[Anonymous User]

Edit: Props for the edit above poster

Everyone should remember that there are people on here, and in your law schools, that are really struggling right now. Whether you think its warranted or not, try to show some compassion. It can be a tough funk to break out from.

[Anonymous User]

Wow, this kid comes on here contemplating suicide, and you want a better explanation? Yes, you're being "that guy".

Not trying to be callous in the least; it's just in the past those sorts of comments generally end up being from trolls/xoxo/etc, and I hate the idea of someone using such a cry for help as a means to troll people.

Regardless, that sort of discussion is better left to actual friends/family/trusted people....not some random internet message board.

The best we can say (unfortunately) is simply "don't do it" or "I've been there as well." That may be (hopefully) helpful, but there are better sources to go to for aid. I imagine he'd get far more personal, valuable advice from people he personally knows and cares about, and I'd hope he goes to them as soon as possible.

[Anonymous User]

I agree. Unfortunately sometimes people are too ashamed to go to their loved ones and admit failure, though.

Anyway, I'll stop derailing this thread. In sum, if you're feeling bad to the point of suicide, go get help.

[headandshoulderos]

Not trying to be callous in the least; it's just in the past those sorts of comments generally end up being from trolls/xoxo/etc

anon no offered due to grades... right after a bunch of disputes re: whether no-offer due to grades actually happens or whether it's a myth... sorry i'm not buying it.

[charliep]

this is the most terrifying thing i've ever seen

[Anonymous User]

Moral supporter here from 2:43 am.

Thanks for the support, especially 2:48 am poster (one right below mine).

To the 3:06 am poster questioning my story: Yes, it is exactly as I stated.
I had a very good grades 1L year which is how I got my 2L summer job. We were not asked to update them with a 2L transcript until we started our summer program where we had to sign a form basically giving them power to request our transcript. I worked hard during the summer. At the exit review session which happened during my last week, they mentioned that my grades slipping to what they considered an unacceptable level was a "concern" (as in wink, wink- you likely will not get an offer). No summers were explicitly told before we left the premises as summers whether we had offers or not, but everyone (but me) was under the impression we were all getting jobs. The Monday after we all left the summer program, we all received phone calls. They called me to tell me they could not extend me an offer because of the grades. (I almost wish they had just sent an awkward e-mail so I didn't have to sit there and listen to it.) I'm assuming everyone else got a phone call with an offer.

The rarity of this situation, 2:48 poster, is exactly why I cannot share this story with my friends here at my law school. If I do, I'd forever be known as the kid that got no-offered due to grades. I'm not going out like that. Keeping this secret has probably made the despair and isolation worse.

[headandshoulderos]

Moral supporter here from 2:43 am.

Thanks for the support, especially 2:48 am poster (one right below mine).

To the 3:06 am poster questioning my story: Yes, it is exactly as I stated.
I had a very good grades 1L year which is how I got my 2L summer job. We were not asked to update them with a 2L transcript until we started our summer program where we had to sign a form basically giving them power to request our transcript. I worked hard during the summer. At the exit review session which happened during my last week, they mentioned that my grades slipping to what they considered an unacceptable level was a "concern" (as in wink, wink- you likely will not get an offer). No summers were explicitly told before we left the premises as summers whether we had offers or not, but everyone (but me) was under the impression we were all getting jobs. The Monday after we all left the summer program, we all received phone calls. They called me to tell me they could not extend me an offer because of the grades. (I almost wish they had just sent an awkward e-mail so I didn't have to sit there and listen to it.) I'm assuming everyone else got a phone call with an offer.

The rarity of this situation, 2:48 poster, is exactly why I cannot share this story with my friends here at my law school. If I do, I'd forever be known as the kid that got no-offered due to grades. I'm not going out like that. Keeping this secret has probably made the despair and isolation worse.

You gotta out the firm if this actually happened

[Anonymous User]

I'm sorry but I refuse to out the firm as there's no way I can do it without outing myself. As I'm so depressed/nearly suicidal because I don't want to out myself, please bear with me for not outing the firm and thereby myself.

All I will say is that it's not Gibson Dunn so the conventional wisdom that this "could only happen at Gibson" is tossed out the window.

[Anonymous User]

Also, I'll add this so current 2Ls aren't reading this and freaking out.

My GPA truly did drop significantly from good grades (combo of As and B+ which had me around median/slightly above at school) to very very bad grades (straight Bs for 2 semester with a C thrown in there). My current GPA is below median.

I'm sure I'm a rare case, so 2Ls stop freaking out.

But ironically, it is this same damn rarity that is fucking up my life. Staying awake on here instead of studying for exams probably will mean that my grades will continue to plummet.

[headandshoulderos]

Also, I'll add this so current 2Ls aren't reading this and freaking out.

My GPA truly did drop significantly from good grades (combo of As and B+ which had me around median/slightly above at school) to very very bad grades (straight Bs for 2 semester with a C thrown in there). My current GPA is below median.

I'm sure I'm a rare case, so 2Ls stop freaking out.

But ironically, it is this same damn rarity that is fucking up my life. Staying awake on here instead of studying for exams probably will mean that my grades will continue to plummet.

OK, well think about it this way...at the end of the day you aren't in a different spot from the many other people who get no-offered. It's not that uncommon, regardless of the reason. Unlike a lot of people, you have a good SA job on your resume. Also, my understanding is that for midlaw/smallaw jobs or the type of jobs you can get outside of biglaw through OCI, it's all about networking and grades don't matter as much / at all. Most of the TLS advice is to punt your grades after striking out of OCI. So, in essence, you aren't really in a different place than the countless people who struck out at OCI (the vast majority of law school students). You're actually doing a little better because you had a good job on your resume 2L summer.

[Anonymous User]

H&S,
Here's hoping you are right about grades don't matter.
I haven't heard 'grades won't matter for midlaw,' but perhaps it is true. I haven't been on TLS since I was a 1L so I haven't kept up.
Thanks for the nod of encouragement though. A glimmer of hope is better than nothing.

If anyone can tell me more about how to successfully get a midlaw job given my situation, I'd love to hear about it.
Ok finally going to bed. Night all.

[Anonymous User]

Wake up kids. This story isn't absurd (rare, yes, but not unheard of). You can think you're made of gold, but we're all disposable--for any reason at any time. The people at your firm don't really care about you. Knowing that and behaving accordingly will serve you well. Or you can choose to go on refusing to admit things don't work out as you think they should all the time...

[Anonymous User]

I really lucked out....
got an offer this morning from a "regional biglaw firm."
Top 20% UIUC/WUSTL/ND Secondary journal. Had 3 2nd round interviews all at regional biglaw firms. I didn't get these interviews through OCI. It was from my relentless networking my 1L summer/ and 3L year.

My advice: Network and hope for the best.....

[Anonymous User]

School Rank: CCN
Market(s): applied to CA and NY
Approximate class rank: Somewhere between top 1/3 and top 1/4 at CCN (was top 5% at a T50 before transferring at the end of my 1L year)
Law review: Secondary Journal
Work experience: 2 years
IP background: no
Summer Associate Position? No, I struck out at OCI going into my 2L year. I had a great experience working for a state supreme court justice during the summer before my 3L year though.
Offered? N/A
Anything else that might have an impact? (diversity, etc. or whatever, really): I wore a (relatively) light gray suit during 2L OCI and made sure not to do anything like that as a 3L.
Screening Interviews: Maybe 13 or 14 as a 3L (added lots by applying to firms directly before they came to OCI)
Mass mails: Got one screening interview out of mass mailing
Callbacks received: 4 (1 V10, 1 V25, and 2 V100)
Offers: 1. After getting rejected by the V10, I accepted an offer from one of the V100s before hearing back from the other two firms. I got a really good vibe from the V100 that I accepted at, and it actually has a pretty unique/great approach to training associates.
How many firms just didn't get back with you with a rejection/callback?: Probably a quarter.
Clerkship Interview: I applied to 120 federal district court clerkships (mostly in "flyover country"), but I didn't get any interviews.
Other: I haven't been on this site much in a long time, and I debated whether I should even be posting this. I'll be honest and say that, although I think that I'm fully qualified to have received the offer that I received, I attribute landing an offer as a 3L to luck more than anything else. I have friends at school with better stats than me that still haven't lined anything up for after graduation. If you're a 3L and you haven't lined anything up yet, be aggressive, but don't let any assholes at school blame this on you or tell you that if you don't have a job lined up by now you just haven't hustled enough or some other BS.

[Anonymous User]

School Rank: CCN
Market(s): applied to CA and NY
Approximate class rank: Somewhere between top 1/3 and top 1/4 at CCN (was top 5% at a T50 before transferring at the end of my 1L year)
Law review: Secondary Journal
Work experience: 2 years
IP background: no
Summer Associate Position? No, I struck out at OCI going into my 2L year. I had a great experience working for a state supreme court justice during the summer before my 3L year though.
Offered? N/A
Anything else that might have an impact? (diversity, etc. or whatever, really): I wore a (relatively) light gray suit during 2L OCI and made sure not to do anything like that as a 3L.
Screening Interviews: Maybe 13 or 14 as a 3L (added lots by applying to firms directly before they came to OCI)
Mass mails: Got one screening interview out of mass mailing
Callbacks received: 4 (1 V10, 1 V25, and 2 V100)
Offers: 1. After getting rejected by the V10, I accepted an offer from one of the V100s before hearing back from the other two firms. I got a really good vibe from the V100 that I accepted at, and it actually has a pretty unique/great approach to training associates.
How many firms just didn't get back with you with a rejection/callback?: Probably a quarter.
Clerkship Interview: I applied to 120 federal district court clerkships (mostly in "flyover country"), but I didn't get any interviews.
Other: I haven't been on this site much in a long time, and I debated whether I should even be posting this. I'll be honest and say that, although I think that I'm fully qualified to have received the offer that I received, I attribute landing an offer as a 3L to luck more than anything else. I have friends at school with better stats than me that still haven't lined anything up for after graduation. If you're a 3L and you haven't lined anything up yet, be aggressive, but don't let any assholes at school blame this on you or tell you that if you don't have a job lined up by now you just haven't hustled enough or some other BS.

Thanks for this. It's really easy to forget it, so the reminder is refreshing and very welcome.

Congrats!

[MrAnon]

Wow this thread turned into a multi car accident. Anyone regret law school yet?

[Anonymous User]

Wow this thread turned into a multi car accident. Anyone regret law school yet?

People have had success?

[Anonymous User]

School: CCN
Market(s): NYC Tri-State
Approximate class rank: Below Median (not bottom, no terrible grades, mainly Bs and B+s)
Law review: Secondary Journal
Work experience: No.
IP background: No.
Summer Associate Position? No.
Offered? n/a
Anything else that might have an impact? (diversity, etc. or whatever, really): No.
Screening Interviews: 4.
Mass mails: 40-60 "targeted".
Callbacks received: 1.
Offers: 0.
How many firms just didn't get back with you with a rejection/callback?: 95%
Clerkship Interview: 0.
Other: 1 in-office callback interview for gov't position, waiting for response.

[Anonymous User]

School: CCN
Market(s): NYC Tri-State
Approximate class rank: Below Median (not bottom, no terrible grades, mainly Bs and B+s)
Law review: Secondary Journal
Work experience: No.
IP background: No.
Summer Associate Position? No.
Offered? n/a
Anything else that might have an impact? (diversity, etc. or whatever, really): No.
Screening Interviews: 4.
Mass mails: 40-60 "targeted".
Callbacks received: 1.
Offers: 0.
How many firms just didn't get back with you with a rejection/callback?: 95%
Clerkship Interview: 0.
Other: 1 in-office callback interview for gov't position, waiting for response.

Networking?