Will c/o 2013 experience significant #s of no-offers? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Discuss.

[Anonymous User]

Doubt it. My guess is that the economy looked worse in the summer of 2011 then it will actually be in the summer of 2012, which means law firms hired on the conservative side and knew what their needs were. Plus, most firms were burned/traumatized by the 2008 crash and are instinctively much more cautious and conservative then they have been in the past.

This assumes that the euro zone doesn't collapse, which might very well happen. If it does, everyone is fucked.

[Anonymous User]

I'm sure there will be no-offers if the economy/economic outlook significantly worsens between now and next August. If not, most Vault rated firms should have offer rates from 90-100%, or similar to whatever they were for this past summer. Not sure there is much else to discuss.

[Anonymous User]

I don't think so. Struggling firms seem to cut back on the number of SA's they bring in instead of cutting back on offer rates, so barring a sudden change in multiple firms' needs, you shouldn't see significant numbers of no-offers at the aggregate level. I'm sure some individual firms here and there will have issues as is the case in any given year.

[romothesavior]

I think it would require an incredible drop in the economy for it to happen across the board. Firms are hiring pretty conservatively right now, although some (*cough cough* A&B in Atlanta *cough*) still managed to get bit in the ass this past summer.

Also, why so freakin anon? Unless you are sharing specific info about your firm, there is really no need for anon.

[Sup Kid]

Firms are hiring pretty conservatively right now, although some (*cough cough* A&B in Atlanta *cough*) still managed to get bit in the ass this past summer.

Story?

[romothesavior]

Firms are hiring pretty conservatively right now, although some (*cough cough* A&B in Atlanta *cough*) still managed to get bit in the ass this past summer.

Story?

Heard they no-offered half their summer class.

[mrloblaw]

Firms are hiring pretty conservatively right now, although some (*cough cough* A&B in Atlanta *cough*) still managed to get bit in the ass this past summer.

Story?

Heard they no-offered half their summer class.

I really hope that's not true, if only for the sake of my UGA homies.

[romothesavior]

Firms are hiring pretty conservatively right now, although some (*cough cough* A&B in Atlanta *cough*) still managed to get bit in the ass this past summer.

Story?

Heard they no-offered half their summer class.

I really hope that's not true, if only for the sake of my UGA homies.

I have heard it from multiple (pretty reliable) sources. So I wouldn't bet my house on it, but I'm about 90% sure it is true.

In any case, most firms this summer offered just about everyone.

[Anonymous User]

Hedging by going into restructuring.

[Anonymous User]

I have heard it from multiple (pretty reliable) sources. So I wouldn't bet my house on it, but I'm about 90% sure it is true.

That's absolutely not true. They no-offered 3 people in all of their offices combined, 2 in Atlanta. The no-offers at least in Atlanta were because of serious work product issues, not because of a lack of space.

See here for confirmation:http://amlawdaily.typepad.com/amlawdail ... ffers.html

[cattleprod]

If Obama wins re-election, the economy is phucked and expect there to be plenty of no-offers.
If the Republican wins, the economy will improve dramatically for the class of 2013 everyone will get the job of their dreams.

[crazyblink653]

If Obama wins re-election, the economy is phucked and expect there to be plenty of no-offers.
If the Republican wins, the economy will improve dramatically for the class of 2013 everyone will get the job of their dreams.

there's no need for idiotic hyperbole in this thread.

EDIT: grammar

[mths]

If Obama wins re-election, the economy is phucked and expect there to be plenty of no-offers.
If the Republican wins, the economy will improve dramatically for the class of 2013 everyone will get the job of their dreams.

Rick perry is trolling tls now?

[Anonymous User]

I imagine 2013 will have some pressure, but not an excessive amount. One firm I screened with bluntly told me that they were targeting 5-12 summers. Last year they had 7 and they were budgeted as the time of my interview in August for 10-12 summers in 2011. But they said if the economy stayed at the level it had shifted to that week in August, they would be reducing to 5. I don't know what level they settled on as I didn't get an offer, but I imagine in years past, they might have gone for the straight 10 and then no-offered 5, instead of planning better in advance.

[romothesavior]

I have heard it from multiple (pretty reliable) sources. So I wouldn't bet my house on it, but I'm about 90% sure it is true.

That's absolutely not true. They no-offered 3 people in all of their offices combined, 2 in Atlanta. The no-offers at least in Atlanta were because of serious work product issues, not because of a lack of space.

See here for confirmation:http://amlawdaily.typepad.com/amlawdail ... ffers.html

Welp, I got this info from two very solid, independent sources, so I'm still skeptical of this article. Are they counting "cold offers" as offers? Because that is what allegedly happened to a good number of people there. Law firms are pretty good at playing games as well, so just because it is in their "official" data doesn't mean that's how it went down.

If anyone has some personal knowledge of what happened, I'd love to hear it.

[Anonymous User]

I have heard it from multiple (pretty reliable) sources. So I wouldn't bet my house on it, but I'm about 90% sure it is true.

That's absolutely not true. They no-offered 3 people in all of their offices combined, 2 in Atlanta. The no-offers at least in Atlanta were because of serious work product issues, not because of a lack of space.

See here for confirmation:http://amlawdaily.typepad.com/amlawdail ... ffers.html

Welp, I got this info from two very solid, independent sources, so I'm still skeptical of this article. Are they counting "cold offers" as offers? Because that is what allegedly happened to a good number of people there. Law firms are pretty good at playing games as well, so just because it is in their "official" data doesn't mean that's how it went down.

If anyone has some personal knowledge of what happened, I'd love to hear it.

Anon. Poster from above who said it wasn't true. I do have personal knowledge of what happened... I summered at A&B last summer. AmLaw isn't lying this time. Sorry.

[romothesavior]

Anon. Poster from above who said it wasn't true. I do have personal knowledge of what happened... I summered at A&B last summer. AmLaw isn't lying this time. Sorry.

Well that's good, and no need for the "sorry" (it's not like I was hoping A&B no-offered half the class, quite the opposite actually). But if you're correct (and I'm sure you are if you summered there), then there's some serious misinformation floating around re: your summer class, and the info came to me from people who are supposedly in the know about A&B.

In any case, glad to hear the offer rate was high, and congrats on the offer.

[Anonymous User]

Anon. Poster from above who said it wasn't true. I do have personal knowledge of what happened... I summered at A&B last summer. AmLaw isn't lying this time. Sorry.

Well that's good, and no need for the "sorry" (it's not like I was hoping A&B no-offered half the class, quite the opposite actually). But if you're correct (and I'm sure you are if you summered there), then there's some serious misinformation floating around re: your summer class, and the info came to me from people who are supposedly in the know about A&B.

In any case, glad to hear the offer rate was high, and congrats on the offer.

Anon from before: sorry, my last post came out a little harsh. It's just insanely frustrating to hear these rumors b/c A&B is one of the most transparent firms and tells summers when they start that the offer is theirs to lose. A&B was able to point to very tangible things to warrant the no-offers (at least the 2 in ATL). I'm sure it was a hard choice for them, because those 2 were awesome people whom we all liked.

Not sure how the people who told you these things got their info. But if anyone is considering A&B, don't let these rumors sway you. I can guarantee that A&B hires only as many summers as they have space for. Make your choice on the other valid considerations that have been rehashed on this board many times.

[Anonymous User]

Capital Market deal volume is down 30% from last quarter or even compared with 2010 Q3. M&A isn't doing that well either.

Investment banks are going to go on a firing spree. (As you can tell from Ibanks that filed with NY State re: firing plan pursuant to the NY law).

Law firms generally hired more summers this year than last year. So...?

[Anonymous User]

Capital Market deal volume is down 30% from last quarter or even compared with 2010 Q3. M&A isn't doing that well either.

Investment banks are going to go on a firing spree. (As you can tell from Ibanks that filed with NY State re: firing plan pursuant to the NY law).

Law firms generally hired more summers this year than last year. So...?

they still hired conservatively. of all the firms i interviewed with, only one mentioned that they were increasing their class size, and that was only by 5 students. hardly a return to pre-recession numbers. still, i think the safest bet is to stop worrying so much about things you can't really control (i.e., the economy tanking) and more over those that you can, like doing the best work you can during the SA and not giving them any reasons to no-offer you.

[JusticeHarlan]

Capital Market deal volume is down 30% from last quarter or even compared with 2010 Q3. M&A isn't doing that well either.

Investment banks are going to go on a firing spree. (As you can tell from Ibanks that filed with NY State re: firing plan pursuant to the NY law).

Law firms generally hired more summers this year than last year. So...?

they still hired conservatively. of all the firms i interviewed with, only one mentioned that they were increasing their class size, and that was only by 5 students. hardly a return to pre-recession numbers. still, i think the safest bet is to stop worrying so much about things you can't really control (i.e., the economy tanking) and more over those that you can, like doing the best work you can during the SA and not giving them any reasons to no-offer you.

http://www.law.com/jsp/tal/PubArticleTA ... rclasssize

Sidely went from 50 in 2010 to 120 in 2011. Cravath went from 23 to 52, etc.

Anyone want to guess which firm had the largest summer class in 2011, at 168? I'll give you a hint, they probably have plenty of free offices . . .

[IAFG]

So much could change in the next year, I don't know how anyone could really argue one side or the other with any confidence.

[minnesotamike]

A&B was able to point to very tangible things to warrant the no-offers (at least the 2 in ATL).

0L here. Shooting for biglaw. Could you be a little more specific about what they did to warrant no-offers? Are we talking repeated work product errors? Social faux-paus at a company function? Was it ultimately a product of laziness or sloppiness?

[Anonymous User]

A&B was able to point to very tangible things to warrant the no-offers (at least the 2 in ATL).

0L here. Shooting for biglaw. Could you be a little more specific about what they did to warrant no-offers? Are we talking repeated work product errors? Social faux-paus at a company function? Was it ultimately a product of laziness or sloppiness?

Both had tangible work product errors that could have been avoided. I don't want to say more than that. But moral of the story: if your firm lets you choose what projects you work on, don't bite off more than you can chew. If you do find yourself in a jam, TALK to somebody about it. It's easier to fix the problem on the front end than to explain poor work product on the back end. Your partner mentor (at least at A&B) is there to guide you through the summer and help iron out these kinds of problems in a way that won't be harmful to you. Additionally, ASK for feedback. If it's been 2 weeks since you turned in a project, contact the assigning attorney. At A&B, they are required to give feedback. Many of the summers last year corrected their mistakes and submitted two versions of every memo to recruiting to be added to their file. That way, the hiring committee was able to see their ability to respond to feedback as well.