Quinn NY v Kaye Scholer NY Forum

[Anonymous User]

Interested in doing general commercial litigation, antitrust lit, IP lit. Want to get good early experience, would love to be a decent trial lawyer in the future. Concerned about Quinn's reputation as being a sweatshop vs. Kaye's low morale due to management issues. Quinn also has a 2100 hour market level bonus vs Kaye's 1950 hour requirement. Like the fact that Quinn allows for more flexibility in terms of practice areas, and generally think it has more personable, interesting, exciting people. Just concerned about being destroyed by the work requirement. Also concerned about Kaye's exit options as opposed to Quinn's.

[dixiecupdrinking]

I think that your concerns about Quinn are valid and I think that there are firms that you would be justified in choosing over them for those reasons. I do not think that Kaye Scholer is one of those firms if you want to be a litigator.

[rayiner]

People... the bonus requirement hours are completely fictional everywhere.

[Anonymous User]

Also making a similar decision with respect to Kaye litigation. Anyone care to share thoughts on Kaye?

[Anonymous User]

i feel like quinn will give you much better exit opportunities and the training will be much better. Although you may work longer, you will also be paid more in compensation.

[Anonymous User]

In my own search, I found a bunch of litigation shops to be superior to Kaye including Quinn and Kirkland.

[Anonymous User]

People... the bonus requirement hours are completely fictional everywhere.

What do you mean? That management doesn't really match up to their tables?

How MUCH worse is Kaye than Quinn in terms of experience and exit options? They seem to be fairly well regarded for general litigation in NY. They both also staff light and Quinn has less formal training but more ownership.

[Anonymous User]

People... the bonus requirement hours are completely fictional everywhere.

What do you mean? That management doesn't really match up to their tables?

How MUCH worse is Kaye than Quinn in terms of experience and exit options? They seem to be fairly well regarded for general litigation in NY. They both also staff light and Quinn has less formal training but more ownership.

Reaction to Quinn: "Oh, wow, you were a litigator at Quinn!"
Reaction to Kaye Scholer: "Oh, you worked in biglaw before, that was a prerequisite to us even bothering to interview you, ho-hum."

I mean, Kaye isn't looked down on. It's just pretty vanilla and not going to impress anyone looking to hire a biglaw litigator. Quinn, however, is a huge name, impresses people and opens doors.

[dixiecupdrinking]

People... the bonus requirement hours are completely fictional everywhere.

What do you mean? That management doesn't really match up to their tables?

How MUCH worse is Kaye than Quinn in terms of experience and exit options? They seem to be fairly well regarded for general litigation in NY. They both also staff light and Quinn has less formal training but more ownership.

Reaction to Quinn: "Oh, wow, you were a litigator at Quinn!"
Reaction to Kaye Scholer: "Oh, you worked in biglaw before, that was a prerequisite to us even bothering to interview you, ho-hum."

I mean, Kaye isn't looked down on. It's just pretty vanilla and not going to impress anyone looking to hire a biglaw litigator. Quinn, however, is a huge name, impresses people and opens doors.

Each of these firms also seems to be on a definite trajectory. If things keep up, it's quite possible that in ten years Quinn will be a V10 firm and universally known as one of the 5 or so best litigation shops in the country. Kaye seems stagnant or declining. Something to think about even if it doesn't impact you directly during your time there; like your school, the firm you start at will be part of your biography throughout your career.

[Anonymous User]

Each of these firms also seems to be on a definite trajectory. If things keep up, it's quite possible that in ten years Quinn will be a V10 firm and universally known as one of the 5 or so best litigation shops in the country. Kaye seems stagnant or declining. Something to think about even if it doesn't impact you directly during your time there; like your school, the firm you start at will be part of your biography throughout your career.

In the context of litigation whether a firm is a V10 or not is borderline meaningless. What matters is the firm's general reputation for litigation. Williams and Connolly is not a V10, but is more respected than any V10 firm when it comes to litigation. Everyone who knows lit will respect Quinn.

[Anonymous User]

Each of these firms also seems to be on a definite trajectory. If things keep up, it's quite possible that in ten years Quinn will be a V10 firm and universally known as one of the 5 or so best litigation shops in the country. Kaye seems stagnant or declining. Something to think about even if it doesn't impact you directly during your time there; like your school, the firm you start at will be part of your biography throughout your career.

In the context of litigation whether a firm is a V10 or not is borderline meaningless. What matters is the firm's general reputation for litigation. Williams and Connolly is not a V10, but is more respected than any V10 firm when it comes to litigation. Everyone who knows lit will respect Quinn.

I think that a solely litigation firm, like Quinn Emanuel, being ranked V10 is a big deal since the Vault ranking is very transactional-focused.

[rayiner]

People... the bonus requirement hours are completely fictional everywhere.

What do you mean? That management doesn't really match up to their tables?

How MUCH worse is Kaye than Quinn in terms of experience and exit options? They seem to be fairly well regarded for general litigation in NY. They both also staff light and Quinn has less formal training but more ownership.

The "hours for bonus" and "hours worked/billed" information in NALP is meaningless. Cravath doesn't even have a minimum hours requirement for getting a bonus, but you'll work tons of hours there if you want to keep your job.

Regardless of what the bonus requirement is, you might be working similar hours at both firms. Kaye's reputation certainly leans more towards being hours-heavy than not.

[Anonymous User]

Interested in doing general commercial litigation, antitrust lit, IP lit. Want to get good early experience, would love to be a decent trial lawyer in the future. Concerned about Quinn's reputation as being a sweatshop vs. Kaye's low morale due to management issues. Quinn also has a 2100 hour market level bonus vs Kaye's 1950 hour requirement. Like the fact that Quinn allows for more flexibility in terms of practice areas, and generally think it has more personable, interesting, exciting people. Just concerned about being destroyed by the work requirement. Also concerned about Kaye's exit options as opposed to Quinn's.

Question for the OP: what was your CB at Kaye like? Curious because I have one coming up this week, and I really don't know that much about the firm or the types of people or their reputation (except the "kind of vanilla BigLaw"). Anything especially to take note of? (I know they're big on products liability work, but unlike you, I don't really have a huge preference for lit vs. transactional at this point).

[Anonymous User]

Not OP but had a CB at Kaye. I would say they fancy themselves to be a particularly "nice" place. If I recall correctly, they seem to slot people into very specific practice areas – you won't just be a litigation associate but will be a products liability litigation associate, an IP litigation associate, etc., from day one, and they don't guarantee you'll get your first choice group. I believe they are moving toward a similar set-up on the transactional side; they spoke quite frankly about it being driven by business necessity, because clients want specialized lawyers working on their matters. Something to keep in mind; personally, this was something I disliked immensely, but you could play it as a positive by focusing on getting expertise early on in a specific practice area.

[Anonymous User]

seriously . . . objectively Quinn is a VERY clear winner. If you want to make your decision otherwise, you probably have some very personal reasons, then no one else here could be of any help anyways . . .

Interested in doing general commercial litigation, antitrust lit, IP lit. Want to get good early experience, would love to be a decent trial lawyer in the future. Concerned about Quinn's reputation as being a sweatshop vs. Kaye's low morale due to management issues. Quinn also has a 2100 hour market level bonus vs Kaye's 1950 hour requirement. Like the fact that Quinn allows for more flexibility in terms of practice areas, and generally think it has more personable, interesting, exciting people. Just concerned about being destroyed by the work requirement. Also concerned about Kaye's exit options as opposed to Quinn's.

[Anonymous User]

Interested in doing general commercial litigation, antitrust lit, IP lit. Want to get good early experience, would love to be a decent trial lawyer in the future. Concerned about Quinn's reputation as being a sweatshop vs. Kaye's low morale due to management issues. Quinn also has a 2100 hour market level bonus vs Kaye's 1950 hour requirement. Like the fact that Quinn allows for more flexibility in terms of practice areas, and generally think it has more personable, interesting, exciting people. Just concerned about being destroyed by the work requirement. Also concerned about Kaye's exit options as opposed to Quinn's.

Question for the OP: what was your CB at Kaye like? Curious because I have one coming up this week, and I really don't know that much about the firm or the types of people or their reputation (except the "kind of vanilla BigLaw"). Anything especially to take note of? (I know they're big on products liability work, but unlike you, I don't really have a huge preference for lit vs. transactional at this point).

I would say they are friendly, genuine people, but they don't particularly pop out at you. Be prepared to level a lot of your own comments, questions, thoughts, etc. because they aren't people who ramble on about things like at some other firms. One thing that was somewhat different was that I got asked behavioral interview questions by a recruiter as one of my interviews. You should probably be ready for the kinds of questions they'd throw at you, but that's just something they did.

[Anonymous User]

Interested in doing general commercial litigation, antitrust lit, IP lit. Want to get good early experience, would love to be a decent trial lawyer in the future. Concerned about Quinn's reputation as being a sweatshop vs. Kaye's low morale due to management issues. Quinn also has a 2100 hour market level bonus vs Kaye's 1950 hour requirement. Like the fact that Quinn allows for more flexibility in terms of practice areas, and generally think it has more personable, interesting, exciting people. Just concerned about being destroyed by the work requirement. Also concerned about Kaye's exit options as opposed to Quinn's.

Question for the OP: what was your CB at Kaye like? Curious because I have one coming up this week, and I really don't know that much about the firm or the types of people or their reputation (except the "kind of vanilla BigLaw"). Anything especially to take note of? (I know they're big on products liability work, but unlike you, I don't really have a huge preference for lit vs. transactional at this point).

I would say they are friendly, genuine people, but they don't particularly pop out at you. Be prepared to level a lot of your own comments, questions, thoughts, etc. because they aren't people who ramble on about things like at some other firms. One thing that was somewhat different was that I got asked behavioral interview questions by a recruiter as one of my interviews. You should probably be ready for the kinds of questions they'd throw at you, but that's just something they did.

Thanks -- I had something like that at another CB, so I'm pretty prepared just in case.

As for the other poster -- I'm not particularly a fan of immediate specialization either (especially because I really don't know what I want to do right now) so it's certainly something I'm going to definitely ask about in more detail in the interview.

[Anonymous User]

Interested in doing general commercial litigation, antitrust lit, IP lit. Want to get good early experience, would love to be a decent trial lawyer in the future. Concerned about Quinn's reputation as being a sweatshop vs. Kaye's low morale due to management issues. Quinn also has a 2100 hour market level bonus vs Kaye's 1950 hour requirement. Like the fact that Quinn allows for more flexibility in terms of practice areas, and generally think it has more personable, interesting, exciting people. Just concerned about being destroyed by the work requirement. Also concerned about Kaye's exit options as opposed to Quinn's.

Question for the OP: what was your CB at Kaye like? Curious because I have one coming up this week, and I really don't know that much about the firm or the types of people or their reputation (except the "kind of vanilla BigLaw"). Anything especially to take note of? (I know they're big on products liability work, but unlike you, I don't really have a huge preference for lit vs. transactional at this point).

I would say they are friendly, genuine people, but they don't particularly pop out at you. Be prepared to level a lot of your own comments, questions, thoughts, etc. because they aren't people who ramble on about things like at some other firms. One thing that was somewhat different was that I got asked behavioral interview questions by a recruiter as one of my interviews. You should probably be ready for the kinds of questions they'd throw at you, but that's just something they did.

Thanks -- I had something like that at another CB, so I'm pretty prepared just in case.

As for the other poster -- I'm not particularly a fan of immediate specialization either (especially because I really don't know what I want to do right now) so it's certainly something I'm going to definitely ask about in more detail in the interview.

I'm not sure how the transactional group is split up, but litigation is IP, products liability, or general commercial.

[Machine Spirit]

Each of these firms also seems to be on a definite trajectory. If things keep up, it's quite possible that in ten years Quinn will be a V10 firm and universally known as one of the 5 or so best litigation shops in the country. Kaye seems stagnant or declining. Something to think about even if it doesn't impact you directly during your time there; like your school, the firm you start at will be part of your biography throughout your career.

Except Kaye rose in the recent rankings.

To OP, if you're interested in IP Lit or commercial lit, then you may prefer Quinn. Now, if you (or anyone else) was interested in products liability work, then Kaye would actually be the better choice.

In terms of differences in "lifestyle," I know people who have summered in both, and who work in both, and Quinn is far and away more of a sweatshop. It isn't even comparable.

Regardless, for your career interests, then Quinn may be preferable to you.