Judging a firm/office by its represented law schools Forum

[Anonymous User]

OK - I'm sick of all this emphasis on grades and brand names my whole life; I get to a T10 law school, do fairly well, and then notice a lot of lower-ranked schools represented among the associates and, especially, partners.

Don't get me wrong, not trying to be snobby. I'm sure there are some ass-kicking candidates from lower ranked schools who went there for whatever reason. But I wonder how much the law school make-up says things about the firm/office.

I'm looking mostly in CA, Bay Area. I have yet to find a firm that is all HYSCCN, and I'm looking at good firms. Does this change when going to NYC? Are lawyers outside of NYC any less intelligent? Is there a firm, aside from Wachtell or whatever, that has almost exclusively T10 school grads? Before law school, I assumed they existed all over. Now I'm not so sure. (and again, not saying that's a bad thing!)

[kahechsof]

.

[Helmholtz]

wat is this

[terribleperson]

wat is this

[IrwinM.Fletcher]

OK - I'm sick of all this emphasis on grades and brand names my whole life; I get to a T10 law school, do fairly well, and then notice a lot of lower-ranked schools represented among the associates and, especially, partners.

Don't get me wrong, not trying to be snobby. I'm sure there are some ass-kicking candidates from lower ranked schools who went there for whatever reason. But I wonder how much the law school make-up says things about the firm/office.

I'm looking mostly in CA, Bay Area. I have yet to find a firm that is all HYSCCN, and I'm looking at good firms. Does this change when going to NYC? Are lawyers outside of NYC any less intelligent? Is there a firm, aside from Wachtell or whatever, that has almost exclusively T10 school grads? Before law school, I assumed they existed all over. Now I'm not so sure. (and again, not saying that's a bad thing!)

169/Good-Enough-For-WUSTL flame.

[YourCaptain]

OK - I'm sick of all this emphasis on grades and brand names my whole life; I get to a T10 law school, do fairly well, and then notice a lot of lower-ranked schools represented among the associates and, especially, partners.

Don't get me wrong, not trying to be snobby. I'm sure there are some ass-kicking candidates from lower ranked schools who went there for whatever reason. But I wonder how much the law school make-up says things about the firm/office.

I'm looking mostly in CA, Bay Area. I have yet to find a firm that is all HYSCCN, and I'm looking at good firms. Does this change when going to NYC? Are lawyers outside of NYC any less intelligent? Is there a firm, aside from Wachtell or whatever, that has almost exclusively T10 school grads? Before law school, I assumed they existed all over. Now I'm not so sure. (and again, not saying that's a bad thing!)

LOL

[Anonymous User]

.

[JusticeHarlan]

wat is this

I don't even

[dadamafia]

I hope you find happiness.

[Anonymous User]

Does this change when going to NYC? Are lawyers outside of NYC any less intelligent? Is there a firm, aside from Wachtell or whatever, that has almost exclusively T10 school grads? Before law school, I assumed they existed all over. Now I'm not so sure. (and again, not saying that's a bad thing!)

Even Wachtell has plenty of non-T14 and even a few non-T1 grads. Doesn't make it any less of a powerhouse. I understand what you're saying, but like you said:

there are some ass-kicking candidates from lower ranked schools

I like to think of it this way: the people at those lower ranked schools did well enough to have transferred to a T14, they just didn't. That in no way makes them worse lawyers (setting aside the obvious lack of correlation between law school and quality of lawyer).

Your analysis may be more applicable when you start seeing associates/partners that graduated cum laude from those lower ranked schools, rather than magna or summa as most of them are that work at these firms.

[Anonymous User]

Now that we're on the subject, what exactly are "staff attorneys"? What do they do? Do they have their own office? Are they separated from associates/partners/counsel?

See, e.g.:

http://www.cgsh.com/kmossel/
http://www.whitecase.com/rudy-raul-Mederos/

[kahechsof]

http://www.cgsh.com/kmossel/

Interesting. Looks like you can go from contract attorney to staff attorney.

[Helmholtz]

http://www.cgsh.com/kmossel/

Interesting. Looks like you can go from contract attorney to staff attorney.

From Cooley to Cleary

somebody get on that movie

[Anonymous User]

/hoping OP doesn't go to my school

[leobowski]

The HYS kids on LR probably feel the same way about you bub. No matter how high you climb, there's always someone on the next rung to piss on you.

[traydeuce]

I think it means SOMETHING. But I'd be more interested in how many people clerked, and where, whether people graduated cum laude, or magna, in journal membership, etc. Because there is great talent in sub-t14 schools - less of it, to be sure, but I would give a good firm the benefit of the doubt and assume that it identified that great talent.

[Anonymous User]

[/quote]I like to think of it this way: the people at those lower ranked schools did well enough to have transferred to a T14, they just didn't. That in no way makes them worse lawyers (setting aside the obvious lack of correlation between law school and quality of lawyer).[/quote]

Well I think of it this way: the people at those lower ranked schools also got into T14s (I did and so did some of my friends)--they just didn't go for a variety of personal reasons, not the least of which was graduating with zero or minimal debt and still having offers for biglaw SAs & permanent employment.

[Anonymous User]

Don't get me wrong, not trying to be snobby.

right.

[Adrian_8am]

.

[Pato_09]

Nerd.

[TheSharklord]

Now that we're on the subject, what exactly are "staff attorneys"? What do they do? Do they have their own office? Are they separated from associates/partners/counsel?

See, e.g.:

http://www.cgsh.com/kmossel/
http://www.whitecase.com/rudy-raul-mederos/

I'm pretty sure that...

Contract Attorneys are people who are engaged on a short-term basis and paid at some set hourly rate for hours worked.

Staff Attorneys are people who are full-time salaried attorneys who are not intended to ever be on a partner track. I think they may be relatively less better off than someone at a firm that does "career track" for attorneys opting to take it, since those attorneys could have presumably continued on the partner track if they had wanted (with the expected hours/bus.dev. requirements)

Anyone have a better sense?

[Anonymous User]

Also, things have changed in the law firm world. Look how many non-T14 first year associates these firms have (/ incoming first years when they start in the next month or two)...the number will be virtually nil. Back in the flush mid-2000s, firms took huge summer classes which, given the classes' sizes, inevitably included a substantial number of non-T14s. When firms cut back, they did so primarily at those non-T14 schools. The proportion of non-T14 alums in associate/partner positions at elite law firms is going to drop fairly significantly in the new post-recession world we're living in.

[DallasCowboy]

http://www.cooley.edu/newsevents/2011/0 ... hools.html

[Anonymous User]

.

[johndhi]

I'm not going to say you aren't a d-bag, but one thing I've noticed that is sort of interesting is that, in my experience, name partners are very frequently not from T-14 schools. I imagine it's a combination of the fact that, 40 years ago it didn't matter so much where you went to law school (if you were from Utah, you went to school in Utah), and that ultra-nerds at Yale may be good at legal analysis but tend to lack the business acumen necessary to wheel and deal your way to name partner.