Baker Botts vs. Vinson & Elkins Forum

[Anonymous User]

I am deciding between the two firms. One thing I've read over the past year is that "Baker Botts is in serious financial trouble." I only count 30 layoffs in 2009 (ABA Article). Additionally, there are plenty of sites/people that reported stealth layoffs at V&E (Law Shucks and TLS). Is there a reason for this sentiment, or is it just due to Baker Botts publicly announcing the layoffs?

(Poll Q changed.)

[Anonymous User]

I doubt either of them are in financial trouble

[Anonymous User]

I haven't heard about either of them being in financial trouble. What type of law do you want to practice?

[Anonymous User]

I haven't heard about either of them being in financial trouble. What type of law do you want to practice?

Just trying to see if I was missing something w/r/t stability & financial condition before I choose.

[Anonymous User]

I have not heard any financial trouble but my general impression (could be wrong) is that if you are interested in Transactional work, BB may be slightly better and for Lit it might be V&E. I think both are great firms and I would go with the one you "clicked with" the most.

[Anonymous User]

V&E Dallas lost some of it's major litigation players this past year to GDC's relatively new Dallas office. Take that for whatever you think it's worth.

[Anonymous User]

V&E Dallas lost some of it's major litigation players this past year to GDC's relatively new Dallas office. Take that for whatever you think it's worth.

V&E and BB both lost partners to Latham's Houston office last year too. It could be a testament to the strength of of the firms, or it could foreshadow continued inroads by national firms.

[Anonymous User]

I have not heard any financial trouble but my general impression (could be wrong) is that if you are interested in Transactional work, BB may be slightly better and for Lit it might be V&E. I think both are great firms and I would go with the one you "clicked with" the most.

Really? The impression I've gotten is that V&E is scaling back its litigation practice and using it to support its corporate side. Eyeballing the number of Houston litigation associates on the website indicates so, too. I'm not saying the quality of the department is declining, it's just not what the firm sees as its primary growth area.

[Anonymous User]

I have not heard any financial trouble but my general impression (could be wrong) is that if you are interested in Transactional work, BB may be slightly better and for Lit it might be V&E. I think both are great firms and I would go with the one you "clicked with" the most.

Really? The impression I've gotten is that V&E is scaling back its litigation practice and using it to support its corporate side. Eyeballing the number of Houston litigation associates on the website indicates so, too. I'm not saying the quality of the department is declining, it's just not what the firm sees as its primary growth area.

Where'd you get that impression? From independent sources or people inside the firms. BB associate told me exactly the same thing about VE lit, but I don't know whether to take it seriously.

[Anonymous User]

Both BB and VE have scaled back their litigation practices. Only FJ of the big three have said they won't be following the same line, since lit made them. Litigation just isn't as profitable anymore.

[03121202698008]

I have not heard any financial trouble but my general impression (could be wrong) is that if you are interested in Transactional work, BB may be slightly better and for Lit it might be V&E. I think both are great firms and I would go with the one you "clicked with" the most.

Really? The impression I've gotten is that V&E is scaling back its litigation practice and using it to support its corporate side. Eyeballing the number of Houston litigation associates on the website indicates so, too. I'm not saying the quality of the department is declining, it's just not what the firm sees as its primary growth area.

One thing to keep in mind, V&E has many people who do litigation but are not in the litigation group. Several of their major practice areas...like energy...people do regulatory and litigation but are listed only as energy on the website. Several firms seem to be restructuring into such practice groups that handle the client cradle to grave instead of handing off matters...at least for some kinds of cases.

Not sure if BB is similar but IIRC it is for some practices.

[Anonymous User]

neither seem to be in any financial trouble as both have openly said they are growing -- and have backed that up by having increasingly larger SA classes w/ nearly 100% offer rates. that being said, VE and BB have really noticeably different cultures imo...quality of work, clients, etc. are all really similar, so it comes down to the people and who you clicked with honestly.

or if you know EXACTLY what practice area you want to be in, i would ask more about responsibilities/type of work/hours in those sections as that will be more indicative of your associate-life experience than taken as a whole.

you also never mentioned Houston or Dallas I believe...but I will assume Houston as they are more noticeably part of the 'big 3' there. VE recently lost 10 partners (some of them HUGE moneymakers) to new offices, as others have mentioned...from GDC to LW (which BB lost partners as well) to Simpson Thatcher's new office opening up. maybe shows how great their partners are, but might also hurt the firm.

im facing a similar decision and it really goes back to my first paragraph. best of luck!

[Anonymous User]

I have not heard any financial trouble but my general impression (could be wrong) is that if you are interested in Transactional work, BB may be slightly better and for Lit it might be V&E. I think both are great firms and I would go with the one you "clicked with" the most.

Really? The impression I've gotten is that V&E is scaling back its litigation practice and using it to support its corporate side. Eyeballing the number of Houston litigation associates on the website indicates so, too. I'm not saying the quality of the department is declining, it's just not what the firm sees as its primary growth area.

One thing to keep in mind, V&E has many people who do litigation but are not in the litigation group. Several of their major practice areas...like energy...people do regulatory and litigation but are listed only as energy on the website. Several firms seem to be restructuring into such practice groups that handle the client cradle to grave instead of handing off matters...at least for some kinds of cases.

Not sure if BB is similar but IIRC it is for some practices.

VE's energy regulatory is its own group. you can see the numbers on NALP. it is small. the ERP practice group is transactional work only i believe, though i could be wrong. for BB, the O&G is only transactional im pretty sure.

[Anonymous User]

Had cb w/ BB recently. Really enjoyed it. Are the culture differences really that drastic between V/E & BB? I didn't get a stuffy feeling from BB, but haven't visited V/E...

[Anonymous User]

Had cb w/ BB recently. Really enjoyed it. Are the culture differences really that drastic between V/E & BB? I didn't get a stuffy feeling from BB, but haven't visited V/E...

sorry, i had not meant to imply that BB was stuffy or over-conservative...i didnt get that feel at all when i was there. VE just had a different feel...not better or worse, just a bit different. not super different i guess, but imo, a bit noticeable.

[Anonymous User]

Had cb w/ BB recently. Really enjoyed it. Are the culture differences really that drastic between V/E & BB? I didn't get a stuffy feeling from BB, but haven't visited V/E...

sorry, i had not meant to imply that BB was stuffy or over-conservative...i didnt get that feel at all when i was there. VE just had a different feel...not better or worse, just a bit different. not super different i guess, but imo, a bit noticeable.

I did get a stuffy feel from BB-Dallas when I did a call back.

[Anonymous User]

Had cb w/ BB recently. Really enjoyed it. Are the culture differences really that drastic between V/E & BB? I didn't get a stuffy feeling from BB, but haven't visited V/E...

sorry, i had not meant to imply that BB was stuffy or over-conservative...i didnt get that feel at all when i was there. VE just had a different feel...not better or worse, just a bit different. not super different i guess, but imo, a bit noticeable.

I did get a stuffy feel from BB-Dallas when I did a call back.

sorry again, refer to my initial post (i know, pretty difficult in a slew of anon postings lol); I am only talking about the Houston firms