DPW vs. Cleary Forum

[Anonymous User]

Both NYC.

Want to do either securities lit or financial institutions regulatory (Dodd Frank).

Can't decide whether the free market (Cleary) or structured (DPW) is better-- thoughts here?

Both cultures seem great.

End goal is lateral to secondary market to a V100 firm after 3-5 years.

[Anonymous User]

Bump?

[Anonymous User]

davis polk is a better choice for both dodd-frank related fig work and securities lit.

i can't believe cleary is winning this poll, frankly.

[Anonymous User]

I'd definitely give DPW the nod over Cleary for Financial Institutions Regulatory work, and I don't think it's that close. DPW FIG is a cut above the rest (but on par with S&C).

[Anonymous User]

OP here.

For Securities Reg, Cleary is Band 1, DPW at Band 3.

Both are Band 2 for Sec Lit.

http://www.chambersandpartners.com/USA/Editorial/42711

Is SecReg that much different than FIG?

Just to be clear- DPW is that much better than Cleary at FIG? I am not trying to be contentious- I'm truly pretty ignorant.

More poll votes? Confused as to why its tied.

Finally, any thoughts about free market vs. structured?

[Anonymous User]

OP here.

For Securities Reg, Cleary is Band 1, DPW at Band 3.

Both are Band 2 for Sec Lit.

http://www.chambersandpartners.com/USA/Editorial/42711

Is SecReg that much different than FIG?

Just to be clear- DPW is that much better than Cleary at FIG? I am not trying to be contentious- I'm truly pretty ignorant.

More poll votes? Confused as to why its tied.

Finally, any thoughts about free market vs. structured?

DPW isn't even really structured. The 6-month rotation is optional. If you doubt your ability to work within informal channels for good work and rather be passive, structured is better; otherwise, free market.

[Anonymous User]

OP here.

For Securities Reg, Cleary is Band 1, DPW at Band 3.

Both are Band 2 for Sec Lit.

http://www.chambersandpartners.com/USA/Editorial/42711

Is SecReg that much different than FIG?

Just to be clear- DPW is that much better than Cleary at FIG? I am not trying to be contentious- I'm truly pretty ignorant.

More poll votes? Confused as to why its tied.

Finally, any thoughts about free market vs. structured?

chambers has a "financial services regulation" ranking that is more relevant to your stated interests. dpw is considered tops in that area, although cleary also does well.

now if youve got some interest in transactional work related to financial institutions (fig m&a for example), then the clear choice is DPW. http://www.chambersandpartners.com/USA/ ... 8#org_3833

[Anonymous User]

OP here.

For Securities Reg, Cleary is Band 1, DPW at Band 3.

Both are Band 2 for Sec Lit.

http://www.chambersandpartners.com/USA/Editorial/42711

Is SecReg that much different than FIG?

Just to be clear- DPW is that much better than Cleary at FIG? I am not trying to be contentious- I'm truly pretty ignorant.

More poll votes? Confused as to why its tied.

Finally, any thoughts about free market vs. structured?

chambers has a "financial services regulation" ranking that is more relevant to your stated interests. dpw is considered tops in that area, although cleary also does well.

now if youve got some interest in transactional work related to financial institutions (fig m&a for example), then the clear choice is DPW. http://www.chambersandpartners.com/USA/ ... 8#org_3833

This is correct--the Securities Regulation link the OP posted earlier is not what you are thinking about (if you are talking about Financial Institutions Regulation w/r/t Dodd Frank and regulatory agencies).

For financial institutions regulatory work there aren't many firms that can top DPW, although Sullcrom and Cleary are certainly peers. However, since you also mentioned securities litigation--DPW's overall Litigation department certainly has the edge over Cleary (at least in NY), and their securities lit practice is comparable.

Also, the free-market system sounds great but oftentimes it's not what you think. There is a lot more pressure on you as a junior associate to find the work, and when you are thrown into a new environment like that sometimes having some structure is actually very desirable.

[Renzo]

For the areas you are interested in, the firms are basically fungible. I like the Cleary people I know better than the DPW people I know, so that's how I voted.

[Anonymous User]

OP. Is DPW lit >>> than Cleary or is it closer?

And both of their securities lit practices are comparable?

[Anonymous User]

For the areas you are interested in, the firms are basically fungible. I like the Cleary people I know better than the DPW people I know, so that's how I voted.

+1

[Anonymous User]

I think the DPW/Cleary debate is the same as the Columbia/NYU debate. One is "ranked" slighter higher than the other, but for all intents and purposes they provide the same exit opps/training (i.e. access to same firms, etc). The differences are so minimal, that it SHOULD come down to feel. How do you feel at both places? Cleary and DPW are culturally different. I know people who chose Columbia over NYU and vice versa based on feel b/c the on paper comparisons were a wash.

You should make your decision based on how you will feel coming into work every day at 10AM and leaving the following morning at 1-2AM, and repeating for 2-3 years.

[Anonymous User]

I think the DPW/Cleary debate is the same as the Columbia/NYU debate. One is "ranked" slighter higher than the other, but for all intents and purposes they provide the same exit opps/training (i.e. access to same firms, etc). The differences are so minimal, that it SHOULD come down to feel. How do you feel at both places? Cleary and DPW are culturally different. I know people who chose Columbia over NYU and vice versa based on feel b/c the on paper comparisons were a wash.

You should make your decision based on how you will feel coming into work every day at 10AM and leaving the following morning at 1-2AM, and repeating for 2-3 years.

Dunno...the "training" could be substantially different given the nature of the work distribution (two 6-mo rotations vs. free-market).
Also, there are some areas (M&A and FIG, for example) where DPW has an edge. Tough choice, yeah--but there are certainly differences (not based on culture) to be found.

[Anonymous User]

I think the DPW/Cleary debate is the same as the Columbia/NYU debate. One is "ranked" slighter higher than the other, but for all intents and purposes they provide the same exit opps/training (i.e. access to same firms, etc). The differences are so minimal, that it SHOULD come down to feel. How do you feel at both places? Cleary and DPW are culturally different. I know people who chose Columbia over NYU and vice versa based on feel b/c the on paper comparisons were a wash.

You should make your decision based on how you will feel coming into work every day at 10AM and leaving the following morning at 1-2AM, and repeating for 2-3 years.

Dunno...the "training" could be substantially different given the nature of the work distribution (two 6-mo rotations vs. free-market).

You don't have to take the two rotations, or you can do only one. I had a partner tell me that it might be best just to go into a group right off the bat so you get some extra seniority.

[Anonymous User]

I think the DPW/Cleary debate is the same as the Columbia/NYU debate. One is "ranked" slighter higher than the other, but for all intents and purposes they provide the same exit opps/training (i.e. access to same firms, etc). The differences are so minimal, that it SHOULD come down to feel. How do you feel at both places? Cleary and DPW are culturally different. I know people who chose Columbia over NYU and vice versa based on feel b/c the on paper comparisons were a wash.

You should make your decision based on how you will feel coming into work every day at 10AM and leaving the following morning at 1-2AM, and repeating for 2-3 years.

Dunno...the "training" could be substantially different given the nature of the work distribution (two 6-mo rotations vs. free-market).
Also, there are some areas (M&A and FIG, for example) where DPW has an edge. Tough choice, yeah--but there are certainly differences (not based on culture) to be found.

I didn't say that there weren't extra-cultural differences. What I did say, or meant to say, was that the differences IMO don't make that much of a difference in the long run as far as exit opportunities, post-firm life. If it, does, I would love for you to list the (specific) differences in opportunities.

[irie]

I think the DPW/Cleary debate is the same as the Columbia/NYU debate. One is "ranked" slighter higher than the other, but for all intents and purposes they provide the same exit opps/training (i.e. access to same firms, etc). The differences are so minimal, that it SHOULD come down to feel. How do you feel at both places? Cleary and DPW are culturally different. I know people who chose Columbia over NYU and vice versa based on feel b/c the on paper comparisons were a wash.

You should make your decision based on how you will feel coming into work every day at 10AM and leaving the following morning at 1-2AM, and repeating for 2-3 years.

Dunno...the "training" could be substantially different given the nature of the work distribution (two 6-mo rotations vs. free-market).
Also, there are some areas (M&A and FIG, for example) where DPW has an edge. Tough choice, yeah--but there are certainly differences (not based on culture) to be found.

I didn't say that there weren't extra-cultural differences. What I did say, or meant to say, was that the differences IMO don't make that much of a difference in the long run as far as exit opportunities, post-firm life. If it, does, I would love for you to list the (specific) differences in opportunities.

Also, here is where the other misc. "soft factors" sorta come into play:

Financial District or Midtown East?
Proximity to gyms, subways, trains, nice restaurants/bars, significant other's workplace?
LotusNotes (Cleary) or Microsoft Outlook (DPW)? <--this was actually a HUGE deciding factor for me
Office space, building, and dining room/cafeteria?
Are your close friends in your class or the class(es) above you going to or working at one of the firms?
Does it matter that the firm has a European presence? California presence? Asia presence? and if so, strength in Korea (Cleary) or HK/China (DPW)?
Do you have connections to partners at either firm? i.e. perhaps you are taking a seminar or writing a note and will become close with a DPW or Cleary partner, or maybe you have family/friend connections?
How many years you have to share an office before getting your own?

I can probably think of some more, but this should be a good start as a sorta "tiebreaker" if everything else is evenly matched.

[Anonymous User]

I think the DPW/Cleary debate is the same as the Columbia/NYU debate. One is "ranked" slighter higher than the other, but for all intents and purposes they provide the same exit opps/training (i.e. access to same firms, etc). The differences are so minimal, that it SHOULD come down to feel. How do you feel at both places? Cleary and DPW are culturally different. I know people who chose Columbia over NYU and vice versa based on feel b/c the on paper comparisons were a wash.

You should make your decision based on how you will feel coming into work every day at 10AM and leaving the following morning at 1-2AM, and repeating for 2-3 years.

Dunno...the "training" could be substantially different given the nature of the work distribution (two 6-mo rotations vs. free-market).
Also, there are some areas (M&A and FIG, for example) where DPW has an edge. Tough choice, yeah--but there are certainly differences (not based on culture) to be found.

I didn't say that there weren't extra-cultural differences. What I did say, or meant to say, was that the differences IMO don't make that much of a difference in the long run as far as exit opportunities, post-firm life. If it, does, I would love for you to list the (specific) differences in opportunities.

Ok, here's one that's probably directly relevant to the OP.
Within the realm of Financial Services Regulation, he should probably choose DPW if he aspires to lateral into the Federal Reserve (Board of Governors or New York). If he's more interested in, say, SIFMA or the SEC, then I'd imagine Cleary would give him a better shot.

These extra-cultural differences, however scant, become pretty relevant to OP, who agrees with the cultures of both firms.

[Anonymous User]

I think the DPW/Cleary debate is the same as the Columbia/NYU debate. One is "ranked" slighter higher than the other, but for all intents and purposes they provide the same exit opps/training (i.e. access to same firms, etc). The differences are so minimal, that it SHOULD come down to feel. How do you feel at both places? Cleary and DPW are culturally different. I know people who chose Columbia over NYU and vice versa based on feel b/c the on paper comparisons were a wash.

You should make your decision based on how you will feel coming into work every day at 10AM and leaving the following morning at 1-2AM, and repeating for 2-3 years.

Dunno...the "training" could be substantially different given the nature of the work distribution (two 6-mo rotations vs. free-market).
Also, there are some areas (M&A and FIG, for example) where DPW has an edge. Tough choice, yeah--but there are certainly differences (not based on culture) to be found.

I didn't say that there weren't extra-cultural differences. What I did say, or meant to say, was that the differences IMO don't make that much of a difference in the long run as far as exit opportunities, post-firm life. If it, does, I would love for you to list the (specific) differences in opportunities.

Also, here is where the other misc. "soft factors" sorta come into play:

Financial District or Midtown East?
Proximity to gyms, subways, trains, nice restaurants/bars, significant other's workplace?
LotusNotes (Cleary) or Microsoft Outlook (DPW)? <--this was actually a HUGE deciding factor for me
Office space, building, and dining room/cafeteria?
Are your close friends in your class or the class(es) above you going to or working at one of the firms?
Does it matter that the firm has a European presence? California presence? Asia presence? and if so, strength in Korea (Cleary) or HK/China (DPW)?
Do you have connections to partners at either firm? i.e. perhaps you are taking a seminar or writing a note and will become close with a DPW or Cleary partner, or maybe you have family/friend connections?
How many years you have to share an office before getting your own?

I can probably think of some more, but this should be a good start as a sorta "tiebreaker" if everything else is evenly matched.

One of my DPW interviewers who was something like a 4th year associate was still sharing an office. Is that common??? I thought you share for like 2 years, at most. (On the contrary, a first year associate that I met at Cleary had his own office although he could be an exception)

[Anonymous User]

One of my DPW interviewers who was something like a 4th year associate was still sharing an office. Is that common??? I thought you share for like 2 years, at most. (On the contrary, a first year associate that I met at Cleary had his own office although he could be an exception)

I did notice DPW's office arrangements for young associates were not so fab. Four years? Really?

[Anonymous User]

4th years sharing an office at DPW is unusual. 3rd years sharing is not. Most people get their own offices as first years at Cleary.

[Anonymous User]

hmmmmmmm.

wow. definitely something to think about.

[Old Gregg]

Yeah man, Lotus Notes vs. Outlook... really huge problem there man

[Anonymous User]

4th years sharing an office at DPW is unusual. 3rd years sharing is not. Most people get their own offices as first years at Cleary.

no longer true, I worked here for a while before law school. however, I'm pretty sure that 2nd years at Cleary usually have their own space, whereas 2nd years at DPW may still be sharing.

I'm almost positive 4th years at DPW do not share, and if they do it is an outlier situation. 3rd years... maybe

[Renzo]

4th years sharing an office at DPW is unusual. 3rd years sharing is not. Most people get their own offices as first years at Cleary.

no longer true, I worked here for a while before law school. however, I'm pretty sure that 2nd years at Cleary usually have their own space, whereas 2nd years at DPW may still be sharing.

I'm almost positive 4th years at DPW do not share, and if they do it is an outlier situation. 3rd years... maybe

I think the Cleary folks were doubled up for a while as they were remodeling their offices floor-by-floor, but I think that's done (or close to it).

[Anonymous User]

4th years sharing an office at DPW is unusual. 3rd years sharing is not. Most people get their own offices as first years at Cleary.

no longer true, I worked here for a while before law school. however, I'm pretty sure that 2nd years at Cleary usually have their own space, whereas 2nd years at DPW may still be sharing.

I'm almost positive 4th years at DPW do not share, and if they do it is an outlier situation. 3rd years... maybe

I think the Cleary folks were doubled up for a while as they were remodeling their offices floor-by-floor, but I think that's done (or close to it).

when they remodeled they actually had more office space, a few friends of mine who summered there had their own offices as summer associates during the remodeling.