V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions... Forum

[delusional]

A quick perspective on the pro bono question. I had 4 call backs last week, asked about pro bono in all of them and got an offer at each firm. I think for litigation folks it may be a bit different because pro bono is an easy way for you to get experience the firm wants you to have but can't give you through paying client work. Obviously this is different firm to firm, but if you're litigation and you're interested in doing some pro bono work to boost your skills early on, you don't really want to work somewhere that's going to ding you because you asked about pro bono (especially if they promote it heavily on their website and other marketing materials geared towards recruits).

I think everyone has been talking past each other on this topic. For a while, I learned everything I knew about law from TLS, and everything had a black-and-white answer. Then I started working at a firm and you realize the world doesn't work that way.

Asking about pro bono will not on its own result in a no offer. Ibtdvorm never said it would, although a couple of his knights implied it. On balance, it is likely a negative. If you interview as a 3L with a thoroughly public-interest resume and you worked 2L at the Gay Alliance to Build Huts for Underprivileged Cancer-Afflicted Immigrants to Haiti, and then you spend the interview asking about pro bono, you will not get an offer. If you graduated Wharton, worked at Goldman Sachs for three years, and did your 1L summer at a hedge fund, asking a quick question about pro bono will not be a big deal. Most people fall somewhere in between. If you are thinking of asking the question, be aware of the implications. That's all one should glean from this sideshow.

[Anonymous User]

What does it mean if you had a CB with a firm over two weeks ago and you haven't received an offer or a rejection.

Is there anything you can do to reaffirm your interest? Should I mention an offer deadline I have a week from now or give it a few more days?

Thanks in advance, for your time.

[itbdvorm]

Thoughts on Shearman v. Willkie for someone fairly dead set on litigation? I feel like Shearman has more general prestige, but Willkie's litigation practices seem to be ranked higher.

Thanks for doing this by the way, this thread is amazing.

I have that the exact same question! Can you also add Hogan to that list? (also interested in litigation)

Unfortunately this is where I reach the limits of my knowledge. Friends at both, but non in lit (think the person I was close with at Hogan is now gone). All solid shops from what I know but your research is going to be as good as mine.

[itbdvorm]

Can you give me your thoughts on Skadden (Chi) v. Kirkland (Chi)? I want to do transactional work but I've only really done M&A and some capital markets in my first summer, so I can't say I want to do public deals vs. PE deals and from what I understand that could be a deciding factor. Also, how do lateral/exit options compare here? Any insight would be appreciated!

Honestly don't know enough about the breakdown in practices between the two. Both have good reputations as deal shops. The Kirkland NY office has a really bad reputation re: culture - not sure if it extends to Kirkland Chicago. If you feel a better fit in Skadden Chicago I don't think you'll be held back going there.

[itbdvorm]

A quick perspective on the pro bono question. I had 4 call backs last week, asked about pro bono in all of them and got an offer at each firm. I think for litigation folks it may be a bit different because pro bono is an easy way for you to get experience the firm wants you to have but can't give you through paying client work. Obviously this is different firm to firm, but if you're litigation and you're interested in doing some pro bono work to boost your skills early on, you don't really want to work somewhere that's going to ding you because you asked about pro bono (especially if they promote it heavily on their website and other marketing materials geared towards recruits).

I think everyone has been talking past each other on this topic. For a while, I learned everything I knew about law from TLS, and everything had a black-and-white answer. Then I started working at a firm and you realize the world doesn't work that way.

Asking about pro bono will not on its own result in a no offer. Ibtdvorm never said it would, although a couple of his knights implied it. On balance, it is likely a negative. If you interview as a 3L with a thoroughly public-interest resume and you worked 2L at the Gay Alliance to Build Huts for Underprivileged Cancer-Afflicted Immigrants to Haiti, and then you spend the interview asking about pro bono, you will not get an offer. If you graduated Wharton, worked at Goldman Sachs for three years, and did your 1L summer at a hedge fund, asking a quick question about pro bono will not be a big deal. Most people fall somewhere in between. If you are thinking of asking the question, be aware of the implications. That's all one should glean from this sideshow.

This is correct.

[itbdvorm]

What does it mean if you had a CB with a firm over two weeks ago and you haven't received an offer or a rejection.

Is there anything you can do to reaffirm your interest? Should I mention an offer deadline I have a week from now or give it a few more days?

Thanks in advance, for your time.

Fine to write a polite note to recruiting, re-affirming your interest and noting that you have a pending offer deadline at another firm. If you can say something like you would accept an offer at Firm X were you going to receive one, but if not you anticipate accepting at Firm Y, probably fair.

[Anonymous User]

For goodness sakes, could we please stop wasting space/time talking about pro bono during callbacks/screeners.
A V-15 partner said he does not like it, so lets just move on.

[Anonymous User]

When turning down an SA offer, should I just email the recruiting department, or do you think it is polite/the right thing to also email some of the associates/partners that messaged you after the CB?

[Anonymous User]

When turning down an SA offer, should I just email the recruiting department, or do you think it is polite/the right thing to also email some of the associates/partners that messaged you after the CB?

Just email recruiting. I've had candidates call me directly to let me know that they are turning down our offer, and its always an awkward, pointless conversation.

[Anonymous User]

What is your general experience regarding biglaw vs midsized boutiques that pay at or above market? I've already made a decision and honestly I guess I'm just here asking for validation of my decision... How do boutique -> biglaw lateral applicants fare? If I realized I made a terrible mistake and want big firms instead, and get an offer after the 2L SA, how good are my odds at 3L OCI/massmail? Would your firm hire someone with a Hueston offer? Does it depend on need in your X department (if you have one), or would a X lit boutique summer qualify for your general lit practice group?

If I turned down an offer for my 2L summer, will I be viewed poorly or positively if I apply during 3L (with an offer from the 2L summer firm)?

[Anonymous User]

Three questions:

Assuming someone bombs grades during 1L well below the general cutoff but begins to turn it around from a strong regional t30 2L and 3L - will a firm generally even care? i.e. bottom 10th percentile grades~ and pulled yourself to 30th-35th percentile in the class cumulatively.

I've never really heard of someone pulling this off w/o some exceptional circumstance. i.e. 5-6 years work exp. working in employment law as a paralegal prior to law school, babysitting the partner's daughter for 2-3 years during undergrad, etc.

Your answer won't deter me from applying but I'm obviously not holding my breath, just looking for some insight. Also are there different cutoffs based on practice areas at all? i.e. project finance vs M&A vs litigation?

Lastly, how do firms view spending a summer in a foreign large firm office (that doesn't have a US office)?

Thanks for your time!

[StMarysStV]

Assuming someone bombs grades during 1L well below the general cutoff but begins to turn it around from a strong regional t30 2L and 3L - will a firm generally even care? i.e. bottom 10th percentile grades~ and pulled yourself to 30th-35th percentile in the class cumulatively.

This is exactly my story, I'm a year out of school and finally landed a great job. PM me if you'd like.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for sharing your insight with all of us.

Had a CB with a large firm (northeast) recently and was told enthusiastically at the end of the day they would make me an offer. Haven't heard from them in a week. How long does it typically take?

[itbdvorm]

When turning down an SA offer, should I just email the recruiting department, or do you think it is polite/the right thing to also email some of the associates/partners that messaged you after the CB?

Just email recruiting. I've had candidates call me directly to let me know that they are turning down our offer, and its always an awkward, pointless conversation.

Yes. If you connected w/someone, OK to send him/her a nice email

[itbdvorm]

What is your general experience regarding biglaw vs midsized boutiques that pay at or above market? I've already made a decision and honestly I guess I'm just here asking for validation of my decision... How do boutique -> biglaw lateral applicants fare? If I realized I made a terrible mistake and want big firms instead, and get an offer after the 2L SA, how good are my odds at 3L OCI/massmail? Would your firm hire someone with a Hueston offer? Does it depend on need in your X department (if you have one), or would a X lit boutique summer qualify for your general lit practice group?

If I turned down an offer for my 2L summer, will I be viewed poorly or positively if I apply during 3L (with an offer from the 2L summer firm)?

Don't know all the different boutiques...but if it's a highly regarded one, seems a fine place to go. 3L OCI is obviously tougher, but that's actually a reasonable story. What I would say is that I would reach out early (i.e., during the latter part of your summer) if there is a particular firm you seriously are reconsidering. Email the right person (head of recruiting or whatever) and ask if you can talk briefly

Good luck

[itbdvorm]

Thanks for sharing your insight with all of us.

Had a CB with a large firm (northeast) recently and was told enthusiastically at the end of the day they would make me an offer. Haven't heard from them in a week. How long does it typically take?

Depends firm to firm

[itbdvorm]

Because I've gotten a few specific questions about two firms that seemed weird - and noting that your mileage may vary...

Debevoise - Obviously a fantastic firm, but I don't get why people seem to love it as much as they do here. It's the only firm where I know two people who quit their summer associate positions because they couldn't stand it (amazing I know). People used to get stuck forever on massive doc reviews in litigation. Corporate seems better, but there seems to be some view that it's a "nicer" firm or something. Perfectly nice but not some secret superfirm

Kirkland NY - Still think it's a stay away. Yes, the person who went to Paul Weiss was the source of a lot of pain there, but I still think what remains is pretty rough. There are those who love the place, so I could be wrong, but seems like an environment that produces toxicity and pain.

[Anonymous User]

Interviewed at a V50 firm, and had a great CB this past week. Sent thank you emails. The (only) partner I met with responded with more than a garden variety email: said it was "such a pleasure to meet me," and "you will be hearing from us very soon." Recruiting responded to my thank you email telling me that everyone really enjoyed meeting me. I've done plenty of CBs, these emails were more than the garden variety response.

Emailed recruiting a day ago to update them on some new offers/deadlines, and was then told they should be getting back to me by then (late September). Recruiting office is in another city. This firm"s office in the market I interviewed in is relatively small, and takes a small (low single digits) class.

Confused about the different responses. Thoughts?

[itbdvorm]

Interviewed at a V50 firm, and had a great CB this past week. Sent thank you emails. The (only) partner I met with responded with more than a garden variety email: said it was "such a pleasure to meet me," and "you will be hearing from us very soon." Recruiting responded to my thank you email telling me that everyone really enjoyed meeting me. I've done plenty of CBs, these emails were more than the garden variety response.

Emailed recruiting a day ago to update them on some new offers/deadlines, and was then told they should be getting back to me by then (late September). Recruiting office is in another city. This firm"s office in the market I interviewed in is relatively small, and takes a small (low single digits) class.

Confused about the different responses. Thoughts?

My guess - they love you, but they've got a bunch of offers outstanding. When a few folks decline, you'll be up, but they are worried about yield

[maroon175]

In your opinion, is there any use or benefit to being on a secondary journal as a 2L if we're not at all interested in going into litigation or having a note published?

[itbdvorm]

In your opinion, is there any use or benefit to being on a secondary journal as a 2L if we're not at all interested in going into litigation or having a note published?

To the extent it helps you write better, or earns you credits, or helps make connections, sure. Once you've got your 2L summer lined up it's about your development really.

[Anonymous User]

I did a summer SA and the hiring partner said their offer for entry-level is pending on their hiring need". I was the only summer and did a great job. Thoughts on what I should do now?

[itbdvorm]

I did a summer SA and the hiring partner said their offer for entry-level is pending on their hiring need". I was the only summer and did a great job. Thoughts on what I should do now?

Talk to everyone you worked with and get some recommendations / referrals. Do on-campus interviews if not too late. Hustle like crazy. Good luck.

[Anonymous User]

When an interviewer asks "what's one thing you want to tell me that's not on the resume," is this more or less "you haven't impressed me yet. Im giving you a last chance"?

[Anonymous User]

I appreciate your firm-specific takes. Would you mind giving us some quick thoughts on DPW and Cleary? Both NY, mostly interested in a transactional focused opinion. Thanks.