V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions... Forum

[Mozart Lacrimosa]

Is there any meaningful difference between a 15-20 ranked school and the best regional school in an office's area? For comparison's sake top 1/3 at each.

[itbdvorm]

What happens to new associates who fail the bar? Do they have an opportunity to try again or are they asked to leave? Is there a stigma that follows a bar failure? If so, how long does it last?

Fail once and you're OK. Fail twice and you're done.

Slight stigma, but it can either be easily overcome or will stay w/you forever. Your actions will make that a reality.

[itbdvorm]

A pretty good article on law firm economics

http://abovethelaw.com/2015/04/want-to- ... the-rules/

[Anonymous User]

itbdvorm,

should I even bother mass mailing big law firms in a local market that's hard to break into? likely to strike out at OCI.

barely above median GPA at a T2. strong writing skills - I have a chance of writing on to the main journal.

currently employed at a small firm (the only 1L law clerk, the others are 2Ls) with the possibility of getting an offer - they seem to like me and I like my current firm. getting plenty of practical experience (and developing my soft skills with clients, etc)

[itbdvorm]

itbdvorm,

should I even bother mass mailing big law firms in a local market that's hard to break into? likely to strike out at OCI.

barely above median GPA at a T2. strong writing skills - I have a chance of writing on to the main journal.

currently employed at a small firm (the only 1L law clerk, the others are 2Ls) with the possibility of getting an offer - they seem to like me and I like my current firm. getting plenty of practical experience (and developing my soft skills with clients, etc)

I mean, why not? What do you have to lose? A few hours of your time in exchange for a possible big law gig? Definitely do it.

[Anonymous User]

I mean, why not? What do you have to lose? A few hours of your time in exchange for a possible big law gig? Definitely do it.

Thank you. I will give it a shot and PM you if I do well. Your thread has been very helpful so far.

[Sotomajoritarian]

Hi itbdvorm -- thanks for doing this.

I'm top 10% at a small T30 law school. Haven't received word back about LR... hoping for the best. I also went to an ivy league UG, but I don't have stellar UG grades (which explains why I'm going to a T30 school).

I love my school, but our OCS is terrifically bad. Few resources, very little guidance. There are a handful of biglaw firms doing OCI with us, but not too many. Given my grades and some other resume-boosters that I can boast, however, I'm hoping I have a shot at the big leagues. Then again, there's no way for me to know, because OCS hasn't given us any info about which firms recruit here, and which generally don't.

Before I waste time applying to a firm, what's the best way of finding out if that firm will even look at me? I've thought about calling up their recruiter and simply asking them, but won't they just give me an answer like "We consider applicants from all schools! " or "Send over your application, and we'll take a look! "?

TL;DR -- I'm at the top of my class at a not-great law school, and I have no context for what that will mean for my job aspirations.

[trebekismyhero]

Hi itbdvorm -- thanks for doing this.

I'm top 10% at a small T30 law school. Haven't received word back about LR... hoping for the best. I also went to an ivy league UG, but I don't have stellar UG grades (which explains why I'm going to a T30 school).

I love my school, but our OCS is terrifically bad. Few resources, very little guidance. There are a handful of biglaw firms doing OCI with us, but not too many. Given my grades and some other resume-boosters that I can boast, however, I'm hoping I have a shot at the big leagues. Then again, there's no way for me to know, because OCS hasn't given us any info about which firms recruit here, and which generally don't.

Before I waste time applying to a firm, what's the best way of finding out if that firm will even look at me? I've thought about calling up their recruiter and simply asking them, but won't they just give me an answer like "We consider applicants from all schools! " or "Send over your application, and we'll take a look! "?

TL;DR -- I'm at the top of my class at a not-great law school, and I have no context for what that will mean for my job aspirations.

I realize I am not OP, but why wouldn't you apply anyways? Just apply everywhere, what's the harm besides wasting a bit of time. It could lead to a job. Also, there should still be a public list of firms that regularly hire from your school. If not, just talk to 3Ls and recent grads.

[Sotomajoritarian]

Hi itbdvorm -- thanks for doing this.

I'm top 10% at a small T30 law school. Haven't received word back about LR... hoping for the best. I also went to an ivy league UG, but I don't have stellar UG grades (which explains why I'm going to a T30 school).

I love my school, but our OCS is terrifically bad. Few resources, very little guidance. There are a handful of biglaw firms doing OCI with us, but not too many. Given my grades and some other resume-boosters that I can boast, however, I'm hoping I have a shot at the big leagues. Then again, there's no way for me to know, because OCS hasn't given us any info about which firms recruit here, and which generally don't.

Before I waste time applying to a firm, what's the best way of finding out if that firm will even look at me? I've thought about calling up their recruiter and simply asking them, but won't they just give me an answer like "We consider applicants from all schools! " or "Send over your application, and we'll take a look! "?

TL;DR -- I'm at the top of my class at a not-great law school, and I have no context for what that will mean for my job aspirations.

I realize I am not OP, but why wouldn't you apply anyways? Just apply everywhere, what's the harm besides wasting a bit of time. It could lead to a job. Also, there should still be a public list of firms that regularly hire from your school. If not, just talk to 3Ls and recent grads.

Thanks for the reply, trebek. Putting together cover letters tends to take me a while (even if I'm just copying/pasting from other cover letters), and if I'm writing out cover letters to lots of firms that won't even consider me, then isn't that a non-negligible waste of time?

I know for a fact that some firms won't even consider bottom T14s, let alone non-T14s. Long story short, I want to try to focus my time on firms that won't scoff at my school and toss my cover letter in the trash.

[trebekismyhero]

[/quote]

I realize I am not OP, but why wouldn't you apply anyways? Just apply everywhere, what's the harm besides wasting a bit of time. It could lead to a job. Also, there should still be a public list of firms that regularly hire from your school. If not, just talk to 3Ls and recent grads.[/quote]

Thanks for the reply, trebek. Putting together cover letters tends to take me a while (even if I'm just copying/pasting from other cover letters), and if I'm writing out cover letters to lots of firms that won't even consider me, then isn't that a non-negligible waste of time?

I know for a fact that some firms won't even consider bottom T14s, let alone non-T14s. Long story short, I want to try to focus my time on firms that won't scoff at my school and toss my cover letter in the trash.[/quote]

The only firm I have ever heard of not really considering bottom t14s is Wachtell. Even then I know there are some.

It really depends on where you want to go and where your school is from. Since you are at a t30, yes you can probably rule out v5 in NYC, DC, or SF. But if you are top 10% at a t30 you should be in play at every firm that comes to your school's OCI. If your school has a shitty OCI, then mass mail all the firms you are interested in

[chuckbass]

Is it easy to get involved in recruiting at a firm once you start if you're interested? And would you recommend it?

[Anonymous User]

If a firm is coming to your school's OCI then they are considering students from your school...it would be a waste of their time otherwise. Also, most OCI submissions don't require a cover letter. Does your school specifically require a cover letter for all OCI bids or something? It is usually as simple as submitting your resume.

[Anonymous User]

What do you think when you get a resume from someone who worked in finance their 1L summer and wants to do transactional?

[rpupkin]

I know for a fact that some firms won't even consider bottom T14s, let alone non-T14s.

I'm interested in how you know this for a fact. Even WLRK does OCI at some (but not all) "bottom T14" schools, and as far as I know all the other Vault firms hire from all the T14. There might be a couple of boutiques with small summer programs that don't hire from the lower T14, but we're talking about literally three or four firms here.

[Sotomajoritarian]

If a firm is coming to your school's OCI then they are considering students from your school...it would be a waste of their time otherwise. Also, most OCI submissions don't require a cover letter. Does your school specifically require a cover letter for all OCI bids or something? It is usually as simple as submitting your resume.

Sorry, I don't think I was very clear. Yes, I'm definitely applying to most of my school's OCI firms -- that I'm not worried about. I'm wondering about top v50 firms, and how to tell if they even look at applicants from my particular school.

[Sotomajoritarian]

I know for a fact that some firms won't even consider bottom T14s, let alone non-T14s.

I'm interested in how you know this for a fact. Even WLRK does OCI at some (but not all) "bottom T14" schools, and as far as I know all the other Vault firms hire from all the T14. There might be a couple of boutiques with small summer programs that don't hire from the lower T14, but we're talking about literally three or four firms here.

Well for one, I spoke with a senior partner at Loeb who told me they only take applicants from Harvard. Not HYS... Harvard. I imagine that other firms have similar school-related parameters, even if they're not quite as stark as that.

[pancakes3]

I know for a fact that some firms won't even consider bottom T14s, let alone non-T14s.

I'm interested in how you know this for a fact. Even WLRK does OCI at some (but not all) "bottom T14" schools, and as far as I know all the other Vault firms hire from all the T14. There might be a couple of boutiques with small summer programs that don't hire from the lower T14, but we're talking about literally three or four firms here.

Well for one, I spoke with a senior partner at Loeb who told me they only take applicants from Harvard. Not HYS... Harvard. I imagine that other firms have similar school-related parameters, even if they're not quite as stark as that.

FWIW Loeb NYC has 0 Harvard JD associates and the DC office has only 1. Lotta Hofstras/Fordham/Cardozos as well as NYU/CLS in NYC, and a smattering of local schools like WM, MD, and GW to go with UVa/Duke/GULC in DC.

[Anonymous User]

If your looking for v50 I'm not really sure where this concern that they won't consider top 10% at a T1 school is coming from. Chances with a v10 are maybe not there but anything is in play if you interview well. Are you talking about direct mailing these companies? Are you that unsatisfied with the list at your school coming to OCI? Also, Loeb is not v50 so you're kind of all over the place here.

[Sotomajoritarian]

If your looking for v50 I'm not really sure where this concern that they won't consider top 10% at a T1 school is coming from. Chances with a v10 are maybe not there but anything is in play if you interview well. Are you talking about direct mailing these companies? Are you that unsatisfied with the list at your school coming to OCI? Also, Loeb is not v50 so you're kind of all over the place here.

Ok, forget about Loeb, bad example. So from these responses, I'm getting the feeling that top 10% at a T1 is generally pretty marketable. Some people say "not v5 firms," some say "not v10 firms" -- I'm sure those guesses have merit to them, but they're still just guesses. Again, my question is how to find out if a firm will recruit someone from my school.

[Elston Gunn]

If your looking for v50 I'm not really sure where this concern that they won't consider top 10% at a T1 school is coming from. Chances with a v10 are maybe not there but anything is in play if you interview well. Are you talking about direct mailing these companies? Are you that unsatisfied with the list at your school coming to OCI? Also, Loeb is not v50 so you're kind of all over the place here.

Ok, forget about Loeb, bad example. So from these responses, I'm getting the feeling that top 10% at a T1 is generally pretty marketable. Some people say "not v5 firms," some say "not v10 firms" -- I'm sure those guesses have merit to them, but they're still just guesses. Again, my question is how to find out if a firm will recruit someone from my school.

Have you tried going on their website and seeing if they have any young associates from your school?

[Sotomajoritarian]

If your looking for v50 I'm not really sure where this concern that they won't consider top 10% at a T1 school is coming from. Chances with a v10 are maybe not there but anything is in play if you interview well. Are you talking about direct mailing these companies? Are you that unsatisfied with the list at your school coming to OCI? Also, Loeb is not v50 so you're kind of all over the place here.

Ok, forget about Loeb, bad example. So from these responses, I'm getting the feeling that top 10% at a T1 is generally pretty marketable. Some people say "not v5 firms," some say "not v10 firms" -- I'm sure those guesses have merit to them, but they're still just guesses. Again, my question is how to find out if a firm will recruit someone from my school.

Have you tried going on their website and seeing if they have any young associates from your school?

Yes, but that's kinda unreliable. Just because they have an '06 grad working there, doesn't necessarily mean they'll hire people from my school now, in 2015. Similarly, just because a firm doesn't have anyone from my (small regional) law school, doesn't necessarily mean they would rule me out, off the bat...

[Elston Gunn]

You are just so, so overthinking this. I'm sorry it takes 15 minutes or whatever to edit your cover letter, but you just have to suck it up. You are top 10% at a T1. You can find something, but you can't afford to guard your free time this jealously.

[pancakes3]

If your looking for v50 I'm not really sure where this concern that they won't consider top 10% at a T1 school is coming from. Chances with a v10 are maybe not there but anything is in play if you interview well. Are you talking about direct mailing these companies? Are you that unsatisfied with the list at your school coming to OCI? Also, Loeb is not v50 so you're kind of all over the place here.

Ok, forget about Loeb, bad example. So from these responses, I'm getting the feeling that top 10% at a T1 is generally pretty marketable. Some people say "not v5 firms," some say "not v10 firms" -- I'm sure those guesses have merit to them, but they're still just guesses. Again, my question is how to find out if a firm will recruit someone from my school.

Have you tried going on their website and seeing if they have any young associates from your school?

Yes, but that's kinda unreliable. Just because they have an '06 grad working there, doesn't necessarily mean they'll hire people from my school now, in 2015. Similarly, just because a firm doesn't have anyone from my (small regional) law school, doesn't necessarily mean they would rule me out, off the bat...

And now you've argued yourself back to just mass-mailing and "wasting" your time.

[Anonymous User]

If there is any firm not coming to your OCI that you are looking to apply to, the only way to find out is to apply. There's no way around it.

[Sotomajoritarian]

If there is any firm not coming to your OCI that you are looking to apply to, the only way to find out is to apply. There's no way around it.

Ok thanks for your help, people. Off to the mass mail-a-tron.