Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results Forum

[Anonymous User]

Illinois - Anyone hear from Berger Schatz or Hodges, Loizzi?

I still haven't heard anything. Any updates?

[Anonymous User]

Berger already finalized hirings.

[Anonymous User]

Just saw this linked from another thread. I highly doubt Spivey was fired because he started his new job the week after he left us. I know this for a fact because I called him there. Also, I think he and Syverud were tight. But who knows and who cares, I need a job like NOW.

[Anonymous User]

Just saw this linked from another thread. I highly doubt Spivey was fired because he started his new job the week after he left us. I know this for a fact because I called him there. Also, I think he and Syverud were tight. But who knows and who cares, I need a job like NOW.

He could have been asked to resign which would explain the lack of resume gap. When you get fired from professional gigs, you often get some time to look for the next thing.

[DaftAndDirect]

This thread is as depressing as it is informative.

[Anonymous User]

what percentage of wustl has a job for this summer?

[Anonymous User]

what percentage of wustl has a job for this summer?

I asked somebody going to WUSTL this question the other day. She guesstimated it at around 20 percent, mentioned that other people might guess higher and some might guess lower, but admitted that was a very rough estimation. I doubt that a student could provide an accurate number and feel relatively certain they are within 5 percent. Oh, and for clarification's sake, my question to her was, "How many people there do you think have a summer job at a firm that is actually paying them a decent amount?". So she might not have been including people who have work with small firms paying <$1000/wk or $15/hr or whatever (then again, not sure how much of that exists).

[romothesavior]

what percentage of wustl has a job for this summer?

I asked somebody going to WUSTL this question the other day. She guesstimated it at around 20 percent, mentioned that other people might guess higher and some might guess lower, but admitted that was a very rough estimation.

I have a hard time thinking this is correct. Even if no one outside of the top 1/4 had a job, this probably would still be incorrect. I'd estimate that there are at least 20% of people with big/mid-sized firm jobs alone (I'd guess 25-30%), as well as people doing other summer gigs (things like government and PI, a couple with the SEC, I know one person going to JAG, a couple going to in-house places). Not all of them are guarantees of employment so they might not fit within the question you asked, but I still think 20% seems low. Just thinking about my group of friends, I'll bet 80%+ are employed doing something this summer. This isn't a representative sample, but they are spread throughout the class (from top 5% down to people who were just above median at the start of OCI).

I don't want to make it sound like things are rainbows and butterflies here, because they certainly aren't. If you are below median, you are probably in dire shape, and there are plenty of folks above median scrambling right now. I don't know many transfers and they apparently struggle at OCI, so that may skew my perception. But only 20% with a summer gig that could lead to good paying stuff? I don't think that's right. Almost our entire top quarter is employed right now in a good job, and there are a decent number of people outside the top quarter with good jobs lined up.

[Anonymous User]

what percentage of wustl has a job for this summer?

I asked somebody going to WUSTL this question the other day. She guesstimated it at around 20 percent, mentioned that other people might guess higher and some might guess lower, but admitted that was a very rough estimation.

I have a hard time thinking this is correct. Even if no one outside of the top 1/4 had a job, this probably would still be incorrect. I'd estimate that there are at least 20% of people with big/mid-sized firm jobs alone (I'd guess 25-30%), as well as people doing other summer gigs (things like government and PI, a couple with the SEC, I know one person going to JAG, a couple going to in-house places). Not all of them are guarantees of employment so they might not fit within the question you asked, but I still think 20% seems low. Just thinking about my group of friends, I'll bet 80%+ are employed doing something this summer. This isn't a representative sample, but they are spread throughout the class (from top 5% down to people who were just above median at the start of OCI).

I don't want to make it sound like things are rainbows and butterflies here, because they certainly aren't. If you are below median, you are probably in dire shape, and there are plenty of folks above median scrambling right now. I don't know many transfers and they apparently struggle at OCI, so that may skew my perception. But only 20% with a summer gig that could lead to good paying stuff? I don't think that's right. Almost our entire top quarter is employed right now in a good job, and there are a decent number of people outside the top quarter with good jobs lined up.

What are you defining as a "good job"? NLJ250? Something that pays more than, say, $80k/yr? Because the last NLJ250 numbers have WUSTL at less than 20 percent, and the latest Art III clerkship numbers have them at 3 percent. Maybe this does just turn on the distinction between what people consider a good job.

[Undergradut]

I'm 40% without a job offer. On the bright side, when I interview with organizations now, the interviewers are actually interested in what I have to say. Gone are the hopeless interviews of Fall OCI. I'm somewhat optimistic I'll get some kind of meaningful legal experience over the summer.

[LawMan20]

I'm 40% at IA without a job offer. On the bright side, when I interview with organizations now, the interviewers are actually interested in what I have to say. Gone are the hopeless interviews of Fall OCI. I'm somewhat optimistic I'll get some kind of meaningful legal experience over the summer.

What's IA? Inter alia? LOL

[traehekat]

I'm 40% at IA without a job offer. On the bright side, when I interview with organizations now, the interviewers are actually interested in what I have to say. Gone are the hopeless interviews of Fall OCI. I'm somewhat optimistic I'll get some kind of meaningful legal experience over the summer.

What's IA? Inter alia? LOL

[LawMan20]

I'm 40% at IA without a job offer. On the bright side, when I interview with organizations now, the interviewers are actually interested in what I have to say. Gone are the hopeless interviews of Fall OCI. I'm somewhat optimistic I'll get some kind of meaningful legal experience over the summer.

What's IA? Inter alia? LOL

It was a joke. Inter alia means "among other things" in latin.

[de5igual]

--ImageRemoved--

[Sm Firm Hiring P]

Well I thought I posted this but it is not showing, so I will try again.

What do you all think is a decent amount for summer pay? Curious. We generally hire from SLU and Mizzou since most WUSTL students are looking for bigger firms and in other cities. Though, not always. We have a great associate who was in our summer program a few years ago and now is a permanent hire from WUSTL, though that associate is a St. Louis native. We look for possible permanent hires out of our program. We usually look for 1 to 2 each year. This year we had 152 applications for one position. A word of warning, we had several cover letters, including one from WUSTL addressed to other firms in other cities saying how they wanted to stay in St. Louis after graduation. The dangers of templates and uploading in Simplicity I guess. Easy way to knock yourself out of consideration at the onset. Since we had so many applications, I has some of the associates help me review the letters and resumes and do the screening interviews. I assume the higher volume of applications was due to the market though I would like to think part of it is our history of permanent jobs from our summer associate program. It is probably tough to gauge WUSTL summer employment % since it is not as localized as SLU or Mizzou, but I would guess 20% for for the local schools is not too far off the mark from what I saw in our process.

[romothesavior]

So, are you asking what is a good pay rate for a summer intern? Are you looking to pay hourly or weekly?

In response to some of your other concerns, I can tell you there is a big contingent of WUSTLers who want to stay here. I know this because I'm heavily involved in our St. Louis student organization. I think the general feeling is that St. Louis firms just flat out don't want us, especially small and mid-sized firms. The three highest officers in this student org are all working outside of St. Louis this summer. I have a friend with top 25% grades and LR and a long-term girlfriend working in the city who has struggled to get interviews here. I personally had offers in cities where I had no ties like Indy and even one in KC, but struggled to get them here, and I came to WUSTL for the explicit reason of staying here long term. Now I'm not. The city is just so insular and parochial, even compared with other secondary Midwestern markets.

There is also the concern about loan repayment. If I had no debt, I would very possibly have pursued St. Louis small firms a lot more rigorously, as opposed to gunning for big firms both in and outside the city. One of my favorite firms in town was a mid-sized place that paid about 70k. But with the cost of law school, I had to cross them off once some better opportunities came up.

[Sm Firm Hiring P]

Yes, interested in the students perceptions. I totally understand the student loan issues, and to be honest, we look for part or full scholarship people since we know the draw for big pay is strong. We pay $ 1000 a week for summer associates and starting salary last year for new grads was in the mid 70s. Our research indicates this is competitive with business firms our size. Hours requirement is more reasonable, 1750 with bonuses for going over plus a % of any business you bring in. We have maintained the level of sophistication in work that the founders had in the big firms. A lot of it comes down to lifestyle and practice issues but when you are $ 150,000 in debt, we realize what the choice is going to be when they have a big firm offer as well. We generally have no problem in getting people with good grades but try to look at the whole picture. Most of our associates were in the top 25% though we have two who were single digit. However, as mentioned, since we look to hire from our summer associate program, get comfortable with staying in St. Louis particularly for people whose roots are out of town is sometimes difficult

[romothesavior]

Most big firms pay a prorated associate salary to their summer associates, but I think $1,000 is a reasonable weekly summer salary for a small firm.

[Undergradut]

I have a friend who went to WUSTL. She summered at a small firm (less than twenty five lawyers) a few years ago in the St. Louis Metropolitan area. I know for a fact that her salary was a little under, but close to 1000/week.

[Sm Firm Hiring P]

That sounds right. Smaller firms don't pay the same % of starting salary like the big firms. The starting salary will be proportionately larger in most cases.

[Anonymous User]

bump for this year? or should we start a new one?

[Anonymous User]

Anyone from UIUC or Notre Dame hear from Deloitte OCI yet?

[Anonymous User]

Anyone from UIUC or Notre Dame hear from Deloitte OCI yet?

Or Chapman & Cutler?

[Anonymous User]

Anyone from UIUC or Notre Dame hear from Deloitte OCI yet?

Or Chapman & Cutler?

E-mail ding from Chapman & Cutler.

[adammac17]

UIUC email ding from mcdermott will and emery