Getting chewed out as a summer associate Forum

[Anonymous User]

Not like yelling and spit flying, but has anyone been decently chewed out this summer? How has the work environment been with that person since? I called a midlevel's cell phone at like 9pm regarding, what turned out to be, an unimportant project. Definitely a stupid thing to do, but he was not very happy about it. And rightfully so (though it was a different timezone).

On a sidenote, this same person has been lukewarm at best to me all summer and critiquing the heck out of my projects. The work I do for everyone else gets great reviews but this person never seems pleased and I'm always seeming to come up short. They say you have to have a thick skin in biglaw and I'm wondering whether this is just an example of a time when that is necessary (ie man up) or if I need to think about this affecting my potential for a permanent offer. Thoughts and anecdotes appreciated.

[jawsthegreat]

You seem like an aspie.

[Glock]

Not like yelling and spit flying, but has anyone been decently chewed out this summer? How has the work environment been with that person since? I called a midlevel's cell phone at like 9pm regarding, what turned out to be, an unimportant project. Definitely a stupid thing to do, but he was not very happy about it. And rightfully so (though it was a different timezone).

On a sidenote, this same person has been lukewarm at best to me all summer and critiquing the heck out of my projects. The work I do for everyone else gets great reviews but this person never seems pleased and I'm always seeming to come up short. They say you have to have a thick skin in biglaw and I'm wondering whether this is just an example of a time when that is necessary (ie man up) or if I need to think about this affecting my potential for a permanent offer. Thoughts and anecdotes appreciated.

That person could be a hardass, or they could just hate you. One person can torpedo your offer, and this sounds like a candidate for that job. Handle it by trying to please them in a non-kissass way.

[viking138]

To clarify....you called a midlevel associate on a (I'm assuming) weeknight at 9pm about something that you incorrectly thought was important. Shouldn't they be used to calls/emails between 8-11pm and shouldn't they be happier that you were trying to keep on top of something potentially important? You can't be summering at a NYC firm...

Regardless, try to talk to someone who's mentored you this summer and ask them for their feedback. Don't say "I'm worried about getting an offer," but ask them how to go about handling situations like this. They'll likely have some advice for navigating firm politics.

[Anonymous User]

OP here.

Just to clarify, this person doesn't seem to hate me personally (as we chat at work events and around the office) but it's more like a professional disappointment that I'm always dropping the ball somehow on his assignments. The subjects of which are all completely new and unfamiliar to me.

What irks me is that this is the the only person that has issues with my work--everyone else commends me and keeps referring me work (and ironically so does this person).

[minnbills]

OP here.

Just to clarify, this person doesn't seem to hate me personally (as we chat at work events and around the office) but it's more like a professional disappointment that I'm always dropping the ball somehow on his assignments. The subjects of which are all completely new and unfamiliar to me.

What irks me is that this is the the only person that has issues with my work--everyone else commends me and keeps referring me work (and ironically so does this person).

Maybe he's just overly critical? Not that I'm experienced with firm or office relationships, but I do know that some people focus on negative aspects of another person's work rather than anything positive.

Would it be appropriate to talk with another SA who's had some experience with this guy? If he's giving lots of people a hard time, then it could be no big deal as far as getting an offer is concerned.

[blurbz]

I wouldn't worry about it too much. Just go talk to someone you're comfortable talking with about your overall work product...You'll be alright. It sounds like he's just a hardass. If he really thought your work was bad, he wouldn't keep giving stuff to you and recommending you to others.

Out of curiosity: What level firm and what market?

[sunynp]

OP here.

Just to clarify, this person doesn't seem to hate me personally (as we chat at work events and around the office) but it's more like a professional disappointment that I'm always dropping the ball somehow on his assignments. The subjects of which are all completely new and unfamiliar to me.

What irks me is that this is the the only person that has issues with my work--everyone else commends me and keeps referring me work (and ironically so does this person).

If he is giving you work you aren't screwed. Why not talk to him about it directly? He is probably really stressed and wants you to figure out more stuff on your own. Also, calling him at home at 9pm is not smart. He probably doesn't have too much free time, maybe he gets shit from his wife, gf, so because of his work. Just be very very careful about calling people at home unless it is an emergency. You have to show that you can handle work and that you have good judgement.

[20121109]

OP here.

Just to clarify, this person doesn't seem to hate me personally (as we chat at work events and around the office) but it's more like a professional disappointment that I'm always dropping the ball somehow on his assignments. The subjects of which are all completely new and unfamiliar to me.

What irks me is that this is the the only person that has issues with my work--everyone else commends me and keeps referring me work (and ironically so does this person).

If he is giving you work you aren't screwed. Why not talk to him about it directly? He is probably really stressed and wants you to figure out more stuff on your own. Also, calling him at home at 9pm is not smart. He probably doesn't have too much free time, maybe he gets shit from his wife, gf, so because of his work. Just be very very careful about calling people at home unless it is an emergency. You have to show that you can handle work and that you have good judgement.

Good advice but OP called his cell phone.

[thesealocust]

It's impossible to answer without the real details. If you're fucking up assignments, you should stop doing that. If he's just a hard ass, then just don't let it get to you and nut up.

Either way, I'd say as a summer there's a rebutable presumption against ever need to call anybody at home ever. But again, we don't know the specifics, so...

Stop fucking up, unless you aren't, in which case don't start.

* nods confidently *

Yeah, that's it.

[sunynp]

OP here.

Just to clarify, this person doesn't seem to hate me personally (as we chat at work events and around the office) but it's more like a professional disappointment that I'm always dropping the ball somehow on his assignments. The subjects of which are all completely new and unfamiliar to me.

What irks me is that this is the the only person that has issues with my work--everyone else commends me and keeps referring me work (and ironically so does this person).

If he is giving you work you aren't screwed. Why not talk to him about it directly? He is probably really stressed and wants you to figure out more stuff on your own. Also, calling him at home at 9pm is not smart. He probably doesn't have too much free time, maybe he gets shit from his wife, gf, so because of his work. Just be very very careful about calling people at home unless it is an emergency. You have to show that you can handle work and that you have good judgement.

Good advice but OP called his cell phone.

I forget most that people still have a landline with a home number different from their work cell phone! I only use my cell. Sorry for the error OP!

OP - If this interaction is bothering you, I think you should directly ask if he has any comments about your work or if there is something you need to work on. I wouldn't sweat it. He may be just treating you like one of the gang.

[chipchip]

The real question is why are you working until 9PM as a summer?

[smokyroom26]

The real question is why are you working until 9PM as a summer?

[Anonymous User]

On a sidenote, this same person has been lukewarm at best to me all summer and critiquing the heck out of my projects. The work I do for everyone else gets great reviews but this person never seems pleased and I'm always seeming to come up short. They say you have to have a thick skin in biglaw and I'm wondering whether this is just an example of a time when that is necessary (ie man up) or if I need to think about this affecting my potential for a permanent offer. Thoughts and anecdotes appreciated.

Trust me; your work, as a summer associate, does not deserve rave reviews. The only person doing anything to help you get better is the critical associate. You should be taking every little criticism to heart. In all likelihood, the attorneys that are picky about your work are the only ones who give two shits about advancing your skills. It takes time and effort to really look at something and say how it could be better. It takes no effort to say something is really good and leave it at that.

[Sup Kid]

A little late for OP, but for all the 0Ls and 1Ls reading this post, you should not call an associate's home/cell phone as a summer associate unless a) its an emergency and b) they didn't respond to an urgent email within 20 minutes or so that you should send first. For ALL non-emergency times, just send a regular email. They'll receive it on their blackberry, and respond when they can/depending on how important the question is in their opinion.

[PDaddy]

Tell "Harvey Specter" (or one of the other people who likes your work) to go chew "Lewis" out and threaten to banish him to an island full of hungry pigmies. That ought to do it.

In all seriousness...ignore the bastard. He probably really likes you and wants to see how tough your skin is.

[maf70]

...

[TheFriendlyBarber]

A little late for OP, but for all the 0Ls and 1Ls reading this post, you should not call an associate's home/cell phone as a summer associate unless a) its an emergency and b) they didn't respond to an urgent email within 20 minutes or so that you should send first. For ALL non-emergency times, just send a regular email. They'll receive it on their blackberry, and respond when they can/depending on how important the question is in their opinion.

This is absolutely dreadful advice. Calling attorneys at home shows great initiative and attention to detail. Hell, I would advise all you summers out there to call associates after 9pm at least once daily, whether it's an emergency or not. It'll get you noticed and keep you fresh on everyone's mind when the time comes to hand out the offers.

Point being: I'd have his ass on speed dial if I were you.

[glewz]

A little late for OP, but for all the 0Ls and 1Ls reading this post, you should not call an associate's home/cell phone as a summer associate unless a) its an emergency and b) they didn't respond to an urgent email within 20 minutes or so that you should send first. For ALL non-emergency times, just send a regular email. They'll receive it on their blackberry, and respond when they can/depending on how important the question is in their opinion.

This is absolutely dreadful advice. Calling attorneys at home shows great initiative and attention to detail. Hell, I would advise all you summers out there to call associates after 9pm at least once daily, whether it's an emergency or not. It'll get you noticed and keep you fresh on everyone's mind when the time comes to hand out the offers.

Point being: I'd have his ass on speed dial if I were you.

Can someone else comment on this? I dunno if he's being serious; if I were an associate, I would prefer an uninterrupted evening.

[UCLAtransfer]

Good advice but OP called his cell phone.

Home phone or cell phone, this makes no difference whatsoever. Calling at 9pm is just a terrible idea unless it is truly some sort of emergency in which you can't cover your ass by simply sending an email.

[Tanicius]

You seem like an aspie.

Let's assume he is. How is that helpful? What's the take away? Choose not to have aspergers next time?

You seem like a jerk.

[Sup Kid]

A little late for OP, but for all the 0Ls and 1Ls reading this post, you should not call an associate's home/cell phone as a summer associate unless a) its an emergency and b) they didn't respond to an urgent email within 20 minutes or so that you should send first. For ALL non-emergency times, just send a regular email. They'll receive it on their blackberry, and respond when they can/depending on how important the question is in their opinion.

This is absolutely dreadful advice. Calling attorneys at home shows great initiative and attention to detail. Hell, I would advise all you summers out there to call associates after 9pm at least once daily, whether it's an emergency or not. It'll get you noticed and keep you fresh on everyone's mind when the time comes to hand out the offers.

Point being: I'd have his ass on speed dial if I were you.

Can someone else comment on this? I dunno if he's being serious; if I were an associate, I would prefer an uninterrupted evening.

Lol, really? You couldn't tell that this was sarcasm: "I would advise all you summers out there to call associates after 9pm at least once daily, whether it's an emergency or not."

[Cavalier]

Once would think that "at least once daily" would be a dead giveaway, but we must not forgot that many of the posters here are in fact law students.

[glewz]

A little late for OP, but for all the 0Ls and 1Ls reading this post, you should not call an associate's home/cell phone as a summer associate unless a) its an emergency and b) they didn't respond to an urgent email within 20 minutes or so that you should send first. For ALL non-emergency times, just send a regular email. They'll receive it on their blackberry, and respond when they can/depending on how important the question is in their opinion.

This is absolutely dreadful advice. Calling attorneys at home shows great initiative and attention to detail. Hell, I would advise all you summers out there to call associates after 9pm at least once daily, whether it's an emergency or not. It'll get you noticed and keep you fresh on everyone's mind when the time comes to hand out the offers.

Point being: I'd have his ass on speed dial if I were you.

Can someone else comment on this? I dunno if he's being serious; if I were an associate, I would prefer an uninterrupted evening.

Lol, really? You couldn't tell that this was sarcasm: "I would advise all you summers out there to call associates after 9pm at least once daily, whether it's an emergency or not."

LOL derp moment. glossed over the "at least once daily"

[seatown12]

everyone else commends me and keeps referring me work (and ironically so does this person).

The only person doing anything to help you get better is the critical associate. You should be taking every little criticism to heart. In all likelihood, the attorneys that are picky about your work are the only ones who give two shits about advancing your skills. It takes time and effort to really look at something and say how it could be better. It takes no effort to say something is really good and leave it at that.

+1