What should a transferring 4th->2nd/3rd tier student do now? Forum

[Anonymous User]

I am a t4 student, in the top 20%, still waiting on hearing about transferring. I am wondering what should I be doing right now. Should I mail firms in the city I am targeting for 2L summer or just ride the time until OCI comes? I don't know what school I will be at during OCI and it's a T4 where I did my first year. Very few, if any, firms will know of my school probably in the market I will be emerging in.

What would you do?

[flexityflex86]

stay at columbia.

[Heartford]

stay at columbia.

+1. Don't feel bad- They've heard of Columbia in California.

[jawsthegreat]

Invent a time machine. Go back 1 year. Tell past self not to go to law school.

[sunynp]

When will you find out if you are transferring? You might as well not wait around, at least get everything together to send out. At least get your lists together, letter, all the stuff you need.

Maybe some people who have transferred and faced this issue can give you good advice? I know A'nold transferred to a new school at literally the last minute. Maybe PM him and ask for advice.

I know cross-posting is not allowed, but maybe edit the title of this thread to show that you are talking about transferring. You need to get the attention of people who have transferred. They may not notice this thread with the current title.

[Anonymous User]

op here. That's a good idea. I will change the title. I am just unsure. I have a couple internships right now, but didn't do anything to secure them until 1 month into the summer. I want to get an early start for 2L as I know this is important, but wasn't really taught what we should be doing in the summer. I hope to know by the end of next week where I will be going (and it's not Columbia, not even close).

[sunynp]

Maybe a search of the forums will help you find some other threads on point? This topic has had to come up before. There are good people here who will help you figure this out. But try to see what you can find in other threads too.

[sharklasers]

you, and everyone else that came after c/o 2011, brought this on your fucking self -- you're fucked, there's no point mincing words, although if you're willing to do a nationwide job search you might scrape up something -- and as penance you should remember to come back here and discourage the bright eyed suckers of tomorrow

[IrwinM.Fletcher]

You talk about OCI as if it matters- as a tier 4 -> tier 2 transfer, you won't be getting jack at OCI. You're new school's gonna be preselect and every single interview will go to kids in the top 10% and/or law review. You do realize this, right?

[thesealocust]

you, and everyone else that came after c/o 2011, brought this on your fucking self -- you're fucked, there's no point mincing words, although if you're willing to do a nationwide job search you might scrape up something -- and as penance you should remember to come back here and discourage the bright eyed suckers of tomorrow

This is a beautiful mixture of honesty and cruelty. I shall call int cronesty.

[flexityflex86]

i feel bad for the snobbery i partook in so allow me to say i know nothing about this particular issue.

[zanda]

I'm curious what edits OP made, because while I agree with the message, the tone is harsh even for TLS. Anyone want to get us up to speed?

[sunynp]

All he did was edit the title to reflect that he is a transfer from T4. It used to say something like "what should a T4 student do now?"
The OP just wants some basic advice about how to go about finding a job. He didn't say or do anything to provoke the harsh response.

[Heartford]

For the record, the Columbia comments were just lame (and not harsh) jokes about the difference between t4 (top four) and TTTT (fourth tier).

[IrwinM.Fletcher]

All he did was edit the title to reflect that he is a transfer from T4. It used to say something like "what should a T4 student do now?"
The OP just wants some basic advice about how to go about finding a job. He didn't say or do anything to provoke the harsh response.

OP is also easy to identify and has been ignoring sage advice on these forums for over a month during his transfer process.

[Anonymous User]

OP here, you may have me mistaken with someone else. To be honest, I wish I had took advice from this forum before, so that's why I posted here. I waited a long time to secure summer employment, and lucky for me I got 2 internships. I was worried I would have nothing, as I waited so long. Anyway, I don't want to make the same mistake again. I have read a lot through this forum, and will continue to search, but figured that the clock is ticking and I should do something now.

[Anonymous User]

I would not take too seriously the 'doom and gloom' messages that many on this forum spread. It will be tougher from a T4 to get a job but it's not impossible nor should you drop out. There are way too many people on this forum that are overly scared or are freaking out too much thinking that only a top school student can find work. This is unsubstantiated however. While the economy sucks, there is way too much overreacting going on in posts, especially when it comes to jobs.

You are far from doomed.

[ndirish2010]

I would not take too seriously the 'doom and gloom' messages that many on this forum spread. It will be tougher from a T4 to get a job but it's not impossible nor should you drop out. There are way too many people on this forum that are overly scared or are freaking out too much thinking that only a top school student can find work. This is unsubstantiated however. While the economy sucks, there is way too much overreacting going on in posts, especially when it comes to jobs.

You are far from doomed.

LOL.

[IrwinM.Fletcher]

I would not take too seriously the 'doom and gloom' messages that many on this forum spread. It will be tougher from a T4 to get a job but it's not impossible nor should you drop out. There are way too many people on this forum that are overly scared or are freaking out too much thinking that only a top school student can find work. This is unsubstantiated however. While the economy sucks, there is way too much overreacting going on in posts, especially when it comes to jobs.

You are far from doomed.

Great use of the anonymous feature. You scared bro?

[Anonymous User]

A lil scared yes but I still don't believe that doom and gloom crap that is so prevalent. I understand some, but there's way too much of it.

[Anonymous User]

This story is relevant here, I think.

Law School v. Dental School

Larry Sanchez always wanted to be a lawyer. But after listening to the talk on the internet he wondered if law was right for him. He thought back to his childhood days of watching Perry Mason with his dad and telling his family he was going to be a lawyer one day. His parents were so excited that they would have a lawyer in the family.

Larry went to undergraduate at a fine institution. He majored in Biochemistry because he wanted to be a patent attorney. But when he was getting ready to go to law school he started looking at the online forums. Some of the students were excited even though they were going to lower ranked law schools. However, some of the kids toting the big names on their profiles said that all law schools except for the top 3, maybe the top 10, were a fools game.

"You can't bank on being anything but median. You only have a 10% chance of being in the top 10%." They said law school was like a lottery. Other websites toted medical and dental school as the golden ticket. Larry wanted so badly to be a patent attorney but was wondering if he should maybe try dentistry instead. But first he would take the LSAT.

So Larry sat in that room with the young, mostly social science graduates, anxiously awaiting the test to be administered. The young gal up front read out the rules and began to pass the test. Larry didn't really study much for this. He was always good at tests. His college GPA was around 3.65. Not bad for a Biochemistry major. Not bad at all. However, his hands sweated like crazy while he took that LSAT. On the Logic Games section his mind raced. He had no idea what he was doing. Perry Mason and those forums flashed in his head. Before he knew it he was at home, a few weeks later staring at a score of 153. His choice of law schools was hindered. He would not get into a top 10 school. Not even a top 14. Heck, not even a tier 1 school. In fact, he had a chance at only a few schools outside of the third and fourth tiers.

Larry asked the people of the forum if he should go to his cities fourth tier school, or maybe a fourth tier school in New York City. New York was a haven for lawyers Larry was told. But they said he would never ever get a job going to a school like that unless he made law review and was on the top 10% of his class. Some internet sites stated even if he had those things going for him he would also need to have a connection. Nobody in Larry's family was a lawyer. How would he break this to his dad that watched Perry Mason with him so much while he was young?

He didn't want to quit school. He dreamed of being a professional with a professional degree. He sadly gave up on the idea of law school. Everyone had talked him out of it. There was no way he could have even an 11% chance of getting into the top 10% of his class. So he logged out of his LSAC account, never to log back in again.

A year later, to Larry's delight, he was admitted to a handful of medical/dental schools. One that stood out was Harvard Medical. Another was University of California San Francisco. The other was Toothy Grin School of Dentistry. Larry remembered reading that unlike law schools, dental schools were not ranked. Toothy Grin was over $17,000 a year cheaper than the next cheapest, and it was in his home town. He wasn't keen on moving to a huge city like San Francisco or Boston. Not this early in the game. So Larry decided to enroll at Toothy Grin, even though he almost was swayed by the prestige of Harvard.

Larry was told that his dental school would not rank by the law school bloggers. He was surprised to find that grades would actually be ranked, and some graduates would receive honors. Larry was good at Biochemistry though, so just had to be good at dentistry. And after all, he was told that dental school, unlike law school, was truly a golden ticket to success.

A couple years passed and Larry didn't do so well in dental school. He continued to dream of law school and wished that he would have been a lawyer. He was deep in debt from his dental school. Although he got a scholarship and his school wasn't very expensive, he took out extra private loans to afford a nice car and other things such as an Apple iPhone which was deemed to be the 'cool thing'. Larry liked to eat out between class, and lived in the dorms, even though his parents lived only about half an hour away. He was told it would not matter. After dental school he would be making an easy $100,000 a year. The law school students knew it all.

Larry was taking his final, and all he could think about was how he would have been done with law school by now. Here he was, with his hand deep inside of a volunteer's mouth, with drool up his arm, and he could not help but think that he made the biggest mistake of his life. This may be easy money, he thought, but he knew he didn't like it. It was somehow gross now to him, even though it didn't bother him at first. He thought about the law schools he would have ended up going to, and how he had that 10% chance of getting in the top 10% of his class. That's not horrible odds, he thought. Either way he could have been happy. He didn't need BigLaw. Why did he listen to those people? Oh well, they were probably right. This is better, he told himself. This is so much better. He almost failed that final.

On graduation day he sat out there, with his parents in the audience. They were near the front, both with their shining smiles. Larry helped clean their teeth and got them Invisalign. Dental school had its perks. But it wasn't the same as law school, he thought. His sister was kicked out of her apartment a few weeks before the final and all Larry could think about was how he could have helped her if he was a lawyer. Even his father said, "too bad you didn't go to law school. You could have helped Cassandra out. She really is hurting." That stung. That stung bad.

Larry hated those halls and was glad to be getting out. Now he would have to find a job. At the graduation the dean walked out and everyone was sitting there, ready to grab their diploma. The dean mentioned the top students and how they were "Golden Tooth Scholars" as they went up for their diploma. Then the dean came up and before everyone else grabbed their diploma he said something that Larry would never forget.

"Congratulations scholars. Today you all embark on a voyage of a lifetime. Some of you have achieved great academic success, and again, we are immensely proud. However, in the end it doesn't matter. What do you call the student at the bottom of his or her class in dental school?"

The crowd murmured.

"Doctor! Doctor Larry Sanchez!"
Larry then was in realization of his low class rank. Rock bottom. They would have never done this in law school, he realized. They could joke about a low class rank in dental school because everyone was guaranteed $100,000 a year. Right? Larry sure hoped so.

Larry's parents were proud of him as he moved back in to their house. He would be job hunting now. It would be easy though. A handful of his classmates already had jobs lined up. Many more were moving to cities across the country without a care in the world. Larry had an interview at a small dentistry office in his hometown that hired many Toothy Grin grads.

"So, how did you do in dental school?" the interviewer asked. Larry did not really understand. "Pretty good. I liked it."
"What was your class rank, if you don't mind me asking."
Class rank! Larry thought. Class rank?! The law school blogs all said that there was no such thing in dental school! Class rank?! What the heck.
"I was um..." Larry paused. He still had the job, he thought. He had to. Every dentist is guaranteed a good $100,000 a year job, even though this place started out at $65,600 a year. That was still good money!
"I was actually in the bottom of my class, but..."
"Oh," the interviewer interrupted. "I see..."
"I..." Larry said, trying to regain control of the interview.
"Well, we offer positions generally to those in the top 65% of their class and rarely below the median, actually."
"But, I was told you offered a position to a guy who was 2nd to last in his class. Um.. His name was Paul Sykes."
"Oh yes, Paul. He was a different case though. He went to Harvard."
But all dental schools are the same?! US News doesn't rank them! They are all equal! Larry's mind raced. He was told on the internet that all dental schools were the same! He felt like crying. He knew that he would not have been the lowest ranked student at law school. He loved law! That was his real calling.
"Is there any advice you can give me?" Larry said, trying not to cry.
"Western Dental might be hiring. They generally are."
"Thank you."

Larry set up an interview at Western Dental. They were paying a measly $35,000 a year. It was much lower than Larry anticipated. But he realized that everyone was wrong.
"How are you?" the Western Dental recruiter asked.
"Fine..."
"So, Toothy Grins. We have hired many grads from there here."
"Yeah?" Larry said. He figured he had this job for sure.
"Yes."
The interview went pretty well. Larry seemed really confident. They didn't even ask his class rank! Maybe this is the kind of place the law school sites were talking about. But then again, it only paid $35,000. Larry could live on that for a while. Income based repayment and all. But law school, too, had that.
"Well, Larry. It was great talking to you. We have two openings right now, and probably a couple more will come up this year. If you are still interested, we have a few more interviews to do then we will call you."
"Yes, I am," Larry said, but it didn't sound authentic. It couldn't. It wasn't his dream.
"How many more people are you interviewing?"
"Well, we have about 30 recent grads already lined up. And probably a few more from our internal hiring system. Usually we have about 60 total."
Larry realized he had even less than a 10% chance of getting hired. He walked out of that office and cried.

The interviewer came out and noticed Larry was visibly upset. He walked over to Larry and said, "it's hard now, you know. The economy is rough for doctors, dentists, and those in the medical profession. Nurses are doing alright. But not in the major hospitals. It's still hard to get a good job as a nurse. You know, my brother went into Law. He had tons of offers. You want a good chance at a good job, you need to go to law school. He went to a school called Cooley, and makes $160,000 a year. Man, if I could do it again."

[Heartford]

This story is relevant here, I think.

I could actually feel that making me stupider.

[sunynp]

I feel bad for not being able to give OP advice on the question asked in the OP. Does anyone have suggestions for him?

[dailygrind]

Every single anonymous post in this thread has been the same poster. I'm not going to out him, but I am going to ban him for a while.

[bk1]

Every single anonymous post in this thread has been the same poster. I'm not going to out him, but I am going to ban him for a while.

I love when people make alts or use anon to talk to themselves.