Cleary Forum

[Anonymous User]

What do people know about Cleary New York /DC?

DC seems to be mainly antitrust whereas New York has various practice areas; but I would also like to know more about reputation / work-life / types of people / anything else that is interesting about Cleary.

Thanks.

[Renzo]

Everyone who works there loves it (in comparison to other biglaw; plenty of people still hate that). The offices are not bad, and in a great part of town. To the extent that work-life balance is not a complete myth in NYC biglaw, it exists at Cleary.

[swc65]

what about grade sensitivity at NYC t6?

[Renzo]

what about grade sensitivity at NYC t6?

Relatively high.

[Bronte]

what about grade sensitivity at NYC t6?

Relatively high.

They're looking for about top 15% from T10s. That's a median figure, not a hard or even soft cutoff.

[seriouslyinformative]

The offices are not bad,

Aren't they still being renovated? Pre-renovation, they were terrible.

and in a great part of town.

Since when was FiDi a "great" part of town???

To the extent that work-life balance is not a complete myth in NYC biglaw, it exists at Cleary.

This isn't true at all.

[Renzo]

The offices are not bad,

Aren't they still being renovated? Pre-renovation, they were terrible.

and in a great part of town.

Since when was FiDi a "great" part of town???

To the extent that work-life balance is not a complete myth in NYC biglaw, it exists at Cleary.

This isn't true at all.

1) Yes, they're being renovated, and it's the new offices I was referring to.

2) For as long as it has not been in midtown

3) Tell that to my good friend, a sixth year on her second (long) maternity leave.

[Anonymous User]

The offices are not bad,

Aren't they still being renovated? Pre-renovation, they were terrible.

and in a great part of town.

Since when was FiDi a "great" part of town???

To the extent that work-life balance is not a complete myth in NYC biglaw, it exists at Cleary.

This isn't true at all.

How do you interpret "work life balance" in this context? I think the best you can really hope for in NYC biglaw re: "work life balance," at least based on what I've seen at my summer firm, is that people will be respectful of the 2 weeks of vacation time that you manage to sneak in each year. Ie: people will cover for you with the expectation that you'll pay it forward. Doesn't actually mean that you'll be able to hang out with your friends on a regular basis, etc.

Does Cleary not even fit that standard, or are you talking about something else? (I know jack-shit about Cleary).

[seriouslyinformative]

2) For as long as it has not been in midtown

I don't think anyone can credibly believe the Financial District is better than midtown.

3) Tell that to my good friend, a sixth year on her second (long) maternity leave.

Umm... OK... tell that to 10 of my friends who work there, who all routinely leave dinner to go back to work on Friday and Saturday nights and who are all billing like crazy right now.

[seriouslyinformative]

is that people will be respectful of the 2 weeks of vacation time that you manage to sneak in each year. Ie: people will cover for you with the expectation that you'll pay it forward. Doesn't actually mean that you'll be able to hang out with your friends on a regular basis, etc.

Depends on what you mean. Two weeks in a single sitting probably won't be tolerated. But firms, even places like Cleary, respect vacation time from what I've seen. But hanging out with friends on a regular basis, if you want to be partner-track, is probably not going to happen.

[Renzo]

[

How do you interpret "work life balance" in this context? I think the best you can really hope for in NYC biglaw re: "work life balance," at least based on what I've seen at my summer firm, is that people will be respectful of the 2 weeks of vacation time that you manage to sneak in each year. Ie: people will cover for you with the expectation that you'll pay it forward. Doesn't actually mean that you'll be able to hang out with your friends on a regular basis, etc.

Does Cleary not even fit that standard, or are you talking about something else? (I know jack-shit about Cleary).

People can take family leave without fear of reprisal, and from those I've heard from vacations are generally respected. As with all NYC biglaw, the hours are long, and you're expected to be available.

[Renzo]

2) For as long as it has not been in midtown

I don't think anyone can credibly believe the Financial District is better than midtown.

3) Tell that to my good friend, a sixth year on her second (long) maternity leave.

Umm... OK... tell that to 10 of my friends who work there, who all routinely leave dinner to go back to work on Friday and Saturday nights and who are all billing like crazy right now.

I guess if you really like crowds, long, painful commutes, and crowded boring bars, midtown is great. And you show me an NYC firm where the associates aren't out-of-control busy right now, I'll show you one that's about to collapse.

[seriouslyinformative]

And you show me an NYC firm where the associates aren't out-of-control busy right now, I'll show you one that's about to collapse.

...thanks for the non-sequitur.

I guess if you really like crowds, long, painful commutes, and crowded boring bars, midtown is great.

I'll let the rental/buyer market speak for itself. There's a reason why prices are higher in midtown. If you prefer the Financial District, which is dead at night save for Stone Street (populated by Wall Street douches), the long commute to Financial District unless you... well... actually live there, and the fact that the streets are even more narrow than midtown (meaning that it's technically more crowded), then go right ahead.

Since when is midtown a long, painful commute? It's easy to get to from uptown and any area between the financial district and midtown. Queens is also pretty easily accessible. The only places that aren't "far" from FiDi are Brooklyn and any area beyond the Village.

Do you live in NYC? This conversation is making it painfully clear that you don't...

[rayiner]

And you show me an NYC firm where the associates aren't out-of-control busy right now, I'll show you one that's about to collapse.

...thanks for the non-sequitur.

I guess if you really like crowds, long, painful commutes, and crowded boring bars, midtown is great.

I'll let the rental/buyer market speak for itself. There's a reason why prices are higher in midtown. If you prefer the Financial District, which is dead at night save for Stone Street (populated by Wall Street douches), the long commute to Financial District unless you... well... actually live there, and the fact that the streets are even more narrow than midtown (meaning that it's technically more crowded), then go right ahead.

Since when is midtown a long, painful commute? It's easy to get to from uptown and any area between the financial district and midtown. Queens is also pretty easily accessible. The only places that aren't "far" from FiDi are Brooklyn and any area beyond the Village.

I think Jersey City has a better commute into FiDi than to Midtown. That said, Midtown opens up Weschester/Connecticut if you work near GCT, and Long Island City and Astoria, not to mention the fact that it's easier to get to from almost anywhere in Manhattan save the Upper West Side.

[Renzo]

And you show me an NYC firm where the associates aren't out-of-control busy right now, I'll show you one that's about to collapse.

...thanks for the non-sequitur.

I guess if you really like crowds, long, painful commutes, and crowded boring bars, midtown is great.

I'll let the rental/buyer market speak for itself. There's a reason why prices are higher in midtown. If you prefer the Financial District, which is dead at night save for Stone Street (populated by Wall Street douches), the long commute to Financial District unless you... well... actually live there, and the fact that the streets are even more narrow than midtown (meaning that it's technically more crowded), then go right ahead.

Since when is midtown a long, painful commute? It's easy to get to from uptown and any area between the financial district and midtown. Queens is also pretty easily accessible. The only places that aren't "far" from FiDi are Brooklyn and any area beyond the Village.

Do you live in NYC? This conversation is making it painfully clear that you don't...

1) Telling you that when I gave the caveat "to the extent work/life balance exists," I meant it is a non-sequiter? Do you know what those words mean?

2) who's talking about living in either midtown or FiDi? We're talking about jobs.

3) Yes I do live, work, and go to school here. If so, I'd love to know what is making it "painfully obvious" that I don't live where I live. Do you live here? Because you talk about downtown like someone who hasn't been downtown in ten years.

I think Jersey City has a better commute into FiDi than to Midtown. That said, Midtown opens up Weschester/Connecticut if you work near GCT, and Long Island City and Astoria, not to mention the fact that it's easier to get to from almost anywhere in Manhattan save the Upper West Side.

You're right about all of this, except for maybe the last line, and that's definitely debatable. As far as commutes, it always seemed to me that the downtown firms are much better for the associates while the GCT-area firms are the best for partners, who are all coming in from the far-away suburbs.

[seriouslyinformative]

As far as commutes, it always seemed to me that the downtown firms are much better for the associates while the GCT-area firms are the best for partners,

I live in Gramercy. If you think it's easier for me to get to Financial District than it is for me to get to my office in midtown, you're stupid as shit.

[seriouslyinformative]

1) Telling you that when I gave the caveat "to the extent work/life balance exists," I meant it is a non-sequiter? Do you know what those words mean?

So you basically concede you made a worthless and non-informative point about work-life balance. Thanks!

2) who's talking about living in either midtown or FiDi? We're talking about jobs.

You were talking about "great" areas. I just refuted every point you made about why the Financial District is "greater." Even commercial real estate there is cheaper for a reason.

Because you talk about downtown like someone who hasn't been downtown in ten years.

Yeah, it's definitely hilarious to read this stuff from you. Between thinking that the difference between an equity partner and non-equity partner is merely semantical and this conversation, you've pretty much lost every ounce of credibility you've had on this forum.

As far as commutes, it always seemed to me that the downtown firms are much better for the associates while the GCT-area firms are the best for partners, who are all coming in from the far-away suburbs.

Just a really ignorant and dumb point that ignores basic physics. The only places that are quicker to reach FiDi from are: some parts of Brooklyn and everything in the Village and below (though even including the Village is debatable). For Midtown East, the commute is quicker from the Upper East Side, Gramercy, Upper West Side, Hell's Kitchen, Chelsea, Queens, Harlem and probably most parts of the East Village. A lot of those areas are plausible areas in which associates would live. So now, a midtown office isn't really just "best for partners."

[TheFriendlyBarber]

Admittedly, I don't know much about Queery, but they're work/life balance can't be all that great.

[seriouslyinformative]

I admit not knowing much about Queery, but they're work/life balance can't be all that great.

You're missing Renzo's point. You forgot his qualifier, "to the extent." That basically includes every firm in NYC but Cravath, S&C, and Wachtell.

[TheFriendlyBarber]

I admit not knowing much about Queery, but they're work/life balance can't be all that great.

You're missing Renzo's point. You forgot his qualifier, "to the extent." That basically includes every firm in NYC but Cravath, S&C, and Wachtell.

You're missing my point. Look again, you'll find it.

[rayiner]

I admit not knowing much about Queery, but they're work/life balance can't be all that great.

You're missing Renzo's point. You forgot his qualifier, "to the extent." That basically includes every firm in NYC but Cravath, S&C, and Wachtell.

You're missing my point. Look again, you'll find it.

You're missing his sarcasm, lol.

[Renzo]

1) Telling you that when I gave the caveat "to the extent work/life balance exists," I meant it is a non-sequiter? Do you know what those words mean?

So you basically concede you made a worthless and non-informative point about work-life balance. Thanks!

2) who's talking about living in either midtown or FiDi? We're talking about jobs.

You were talking about "great" areas. I just refuted every point you made about why the Financial District is "greater." Even commercial real estate there is cheaper for a reason.

Because you talk about downtown like someone who hasn't been downtown in ten years.

Yeah, it's definitely hilarious to read this stuff from you. Between thinking that the difference between an equity partner and non-equity partner is merely semantical and this conversation, you've pretty much lost every ounce of credibility you've had on this forum.

As far as commutes, it always seemed to me that the downtown firms are much better for the associates while the GCT-area firms are the best for partners, who are all coming in from the far-away suburbs.

Just a really ignorant and dumb point that ignores basic physics. The only places that are quicker to reach FiDi from are: some parts of Brooklyn and everything in the Village and below (though even including the Village is debatable). For Midtown East, the commute is quicker from the Upper East Side, Gramercy, Upper West Side, Hell's Kitchen, Chelsea, Queens, Harlem and probably most parts of the East Village. A lot of those areas are plausible areas in which associates would live. So now, a midtown office isn't really just "best for partners."

1) Die in a fire.

2) It's called context, you ought to try and pick up on it sometimes. (also applies to the first point)

3a) I never said that equity v. non-equity was a semantic difference. I said it was mostly a matter of compensation. Go back and look, I'll wait. (also, context.)

3b) As I said in that thread, who the F___ are you, anyways? I'd love to know your credentials on that issue as well.

4a) See, again, context. Did you notice how the grownups in the conversation were talking about commuting from outside Manhattan?

[junelsat]

And you show me an NYC firm where the associates aren't out-of-control busy right now, I'll show you one that's about to collapse.

...thanks for the non-sequitur.

I guess if you really like crowds, long, painful commutes, and crowded boring bars, midtown is great.

I'll let the rental/buyer market speak for itself. There's a reason why prices are higher in midtown. If you prefer the Financial District, which is dead at night save for Stone Street (populated by Wall Street douches), the long commute to Financial District unless you... well... actually live there, and the fact that the streets are even more narrow than midtown (meaning that it's technically more crowded), then go right ahead.

Since when is midtown a long, painful commute? It's easy to get to from uptown and any area between the financial district and midtown. Queens is also pretty easily accessible. The only places that aren't "far" from FiDi are Brooklyn and any area beyond the Village.

Do you live in NYC? This conversation is making it painfully clear that you don't...

You're wrong. There are way less people in the street during the day in the financial district than in midtown, and its way more pleasant because of that. The evening, however, is dead, but you don't need to live down there if your office is there. This is coming from someone who has worked in both locations.

[pehaigllleises]

I was a paralegal at Cleary. I liked it there. But I like working in Chicago better. If I was going to go back to New York, it'd have been there.

[dixiecupdrinking]

Financial District is a much saner place to work than Midtown. Way less crowded. Generally don't have to deal with the massive suburban commuter crowds. Can feel a little more low-rent; trade some of the glitzy Midtown offices for more municipal functions and Century 21-ish stuff. Commute is a wash; downtown easier from Brooklyn, urban Jersey, downtown neighborhoods, and can be just as easy from uptown since all subways converge there without a transfer; Midtown easier from Queens, residential midtown, Westchester, UES/UWS depending on which side of Midtown office is at.

Don't know a thing firsthand about Cleary, though have heard good things and would love to hear more in this thread, but would personally rather work at Liberty Plaza than Lexington Ave hands down. A weird thing to get in a pissing contest over, however.