So you're not in the top 30% of your class... Forum

[Anonymous User]

I wanted to start a thread to see how students who aren't in the top 30%, 40% or 50% of their class are doing regarding their job situation (with hopes of replies other than "killself").

I know personally I'm just about the 50% of my class going into my 3L year, and feel lost as to the best way to go about applying to firms. Things like the Vault rankings aren't going to be much of a help and OCI bidding is probably not worth my time. I have some other friends around the same % and most seem to be trying for state clerkships.

Are small firms in tiny markets the only hope for the lower half of the class? I know TLS has an abnormally amount of high ranked students on here, but I figure there have got to be at least a handful of non-top ranked students worried about their job situations and seeking advice.

[Anonymous User]

I was bottom 50%, but managed to get a gig at a big firm in the spring (not through OCI). It can happen, but only if you have the qualifications to address a specific need at the firm. Unfortunately, I don't think you can explain away bad grades. You can only offer work experience / specific training that overcome the grade issues.

[vanwinkle]

I wanted to start a thread to see how students who aren't in the top 30%, 40% or 50% of their class are doing regarding their job situation (with hopes of replies other than "killself").

Just FYI, replies should always be other than "killself": http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=132905

(This is a clarification/reminder, NOT an invitation to debate the policy here. Anyone who derails this thread by responding does so at their own risk. Carry on.)

[Anonymous User]

I was bottom 50%, but managed to get a gig at a big firm in the spring (not through OCI). It can happen, but only if you have the qualifications to address a specific need at the firm. Unfortunately, I don't think you can explain away bad grades. You can only offer work experience / specific training that overcome the grade issues.

That's kind of what I'm afraid of. Straight out of college to law school, and summer work at mostly personal injury type firms don't lead to much specialization that can fill a specific need.

[micwrecka45]

I was bottom 50%, but managed to get a gig at a big firm in the spring (not through OCI). It can happen, but only if you have the qualifications to address a specific need at the firm. Unfortunately, I don't think you can explain away bad grades. You can only offer work experience / specific training that overcome the grade issues.

Were you at HYSCCN?

[Anonymous User]

I was bottom 50%, but managed to get a gig at a big firm in the spring (not through OCI). It can happen, but only if you have the qualifications to address a specific need at the firm. Unfortunately, I don't think you can explain away bad grades. You can only offer work experience / specific training that overcome the grade issues.

Were you at HYSCCN?

Nope, outside of T14. I was just lucky in that I had just what the firm needed, and was able to get my resume in front of a partner.

[Aston2412]

I was bottom 50%, but managed to get a gig at a big firm in the spring (not through OCI). It can happen, but only if you have the qualifications to address a specific need at the firm. Unfortunately, I don't think you can explain away bad grades. You can only offer work experience / specific training that overcome the grade issues.

Were you at HYSCCN?

Nope, outside of T14. I was just lucky in that I had just what the firm needed, and was able to get my resume in front of a partner.

Can you speak to "what you had" that "the firm needed?"

[ObLaDiObLaDa]

I know a lot more people must be struggling with this same issue.

I'm debating applying to state clerkships in my area, mid to small sized firms, and a few government agencies or fellowships that I have connections with (not holding my breath on that one). Is August and September too early for mass mailings to small firms in smaller markets?

[bogart]

I know a lot more people must be struggling with this same issue.

I'm debating applying to state clerkships in my area, mid to small sized firms, and a few government agencies or fellowships that I have connections with (not holding my breath on that one). Is August and September too early for mass mailings to small firms in smaller markets?

I asked my career services and they said that for mid-small firms it is difficult to provide a time line. they told me to send apps in the fall and throughout the year. Basically, they told me that for smaller firms you just have to hit it at the right time when they have an opening.

I would also like to hear if anyone else has any experience with this (ie small firms, small cities).

[barry]

I know a lot more people must be struggling with this same issue.

I'm debating applying to state clerkships in my area, mid to small sized firms, and a few government agencies or fellowships that I have connections with (not holding my breath on that one). Is August and September too early for mass mailings to small firms in smaller markets?

I asked my career services and they said that for mid-small firms it is difficult to provide a time line. they told me to send apps in the fall and throughout the year. Basically, they told me that for smaller firms you just have to hit it at the right time when they have an opening.

I would also like to hear if anyone else has any experience with this (ie small firms, small cities).

I would be interested in this, i applied to some small firms but havent heard a peep, whereas i have gotten some correspondence from bigger firms

[bjsesq]

I'm outside the top 30%. I guess we'll find out.

[Anonymous User]

I was bottom 50%, but managed to get a gig at a big firm in the spring (not through OCI). It can happen, but only if you have the qualifications to address a specific need at the firm. Unfortunately, I don't think you can explain away bad grades. You can only offer work experience / specific training that overcome the grade issues.

Were you at HYSCCN?

Nope, outside of T14. I was just lucky in that I had just what the firm needed, and was able to get my resume in front of a partner.

Can you speak to "what you had" that "the firm needed?"

Sorry, just saw this. I had the type of educational background, work experience and professional interests that the firm was looking for. This particular office of the firm does not even interview at my school, so I was very fortunate to get my resume in front of a partner who could make a hiring decision. Moral of the story: network, network, network.

[timbs4339]

This question is pretty broad. What school range does OP attend? Someone outside the top 30% at at T14 is going to have a much easier time than someone outside the top 30% at a T100.

[Eco]

So is the general consensus here that you need to be in the Top 30% at your school, esp. if not a T-20, to even bother participating in OCI? Just asking out of curiousity.

[IrwinM.Fletcher]

So is the general consensus here that you need to be in the Top 30% at your school, esp. if not a T-20, to even bother participating in OCI? Just asking out of curiousity.

Why would you ever choose to skip OCI?

If you've got shit grades at a top school, you can still hold out hope for a Hail Mary from a firm like Seward & Kissel, etc. Might as well give it a go with a less than 10% chance of landing something instead of guaranteeing yourself a 0% chance by skipping the event altogether.

If you've got low grades at a non-elite school, your OCI is almost certainly either entirely preselect or a lottery/preselect hybrid. If a firm decides to grant an interview in a preselect system IT IS ALWAYS WORTH A TRY. They've already weeded out the people who would be a waste of time and determined that you're at least worth a look.

[Eco]

So what is so different about Seward & Kissel? Why would they potentially pick someone out of the top 30%?

[IrwinM.Fletcher]

So what is so different about Seward & Kissel? Why would they potentially pick someone out of the top 30%?

Historically they slummed it up and took students with crap grades at T14s. Most of that data comes from pre-ITE and is probably less relevant now.

[ndirish2010]

Where did this 30% number come from?

[ObLaDiObLaDa]

So is the general consensus here that you need to be in the Top 30% at your school, esp. if not a T-20, to even bother participating in OCI? Just asking out of curiousity.

I don't think that's necessarily true. It's definitely worthwhile to try, and at least at my school, our OCI includes some midsized firms that probably wouldn't immedietely toss a median ranked student.

[gradesmatter]

Where did this 30% number come from?

That's what i'd like to know. Top 20% people at tier 1s are striking out.

[vb007]

So is the general consensus here that you need to be in the Top 30% at your school, esp. if not a T-20, to even bother participating in OCI? Just asking out of curiousity.

I think this is probably true. I would still put in some bids and interview with the firms that preselect me though. I would not bother with interviews from the lottery or open sign ups though.

[ndirish2010]

Where did this 30% number come from?

That's what i'd like to know. Top 20% people at tier 1s are striking out.

I'm damn close to the top 10% at a T25 and I'm scared.

[Anonymous User]

Where did this 30% number come from?

As OP, I chose 30% because practically all jobs that have preferences prefer top 10%, 20%, 25% or top 1/3rd. I didn't mean to imply that anyone higher than top 30% won't struggle as well...I just meant that for those of us on the lower end of the spectrum, our job hunt will be different than those who can rely on OCI.

I recognize that everyone except the lucky few who succeed at OCI will be mass mailing, networking, etc. as well. I just wanted to get the opinions of others like myself who will be applying at smaller firms and also do not have the traditional paths of 2L summer offers and OCI as avenues like you might.

For the poster who asked, I'm at a T80.

[de5igual]

Where did this 30% number come from?

That's what i'd like to know. Top 20% people at tier 1s are striking out.

I'm damn close to the top 10% at a T25 and I'm scared.

but at that point, if someone strikes out, it's usually not because of grades

[truthypants]

Where did this 30% number come from?

That's what i'd like to know. Top 20% people at tier 1s are striking out.

I'm damn close to the top 10% at a T25 and I'm scared.

but at that point, if someone strikes out, it's usually not because of grades

true--it's usually because of your school. These big firms really only want people that went to ivies