Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit Forum

[Anonymous User]

Can't remember if I saw this earlier in the thread.

How do firms view J.D./M.B.A's? I've been considering doing it and can't decide whether it will add enough to my resume to make it worth it experience-wise.

[lawfirmrecruiter]

What do you think with transfer students?

Transfers are fine but I do like to know why they wanted to make the move.

Is it appropriate to tell the recruiter the following:

"I was conscious of my employment opportunities at my previous school and knew they would likely be better at my new school."

Or is it better to stick to the typical advice of avoiding citing employment as a reason for transfer?

That's tricky. I would probably steer clear of citing employment directly as a reason.

[lawfirmrecruiter]

Can't remember if I saw this earlier in the thread.

How do firms view J.D./M.B.A's? I've been considering doing it and can't decide whether it will add enough to my resume to make it worth it experience-wise.

JD/MBAs are wonderful IMHO. Especially if you are interested in a corporate or transactional practice. The students with this dual degree join us with a better understanding of our client's business which is a real benefit to everyone.

[Anonymous User]

What is your firms grade cutoff for emory and similarly ranked schools? (but really just emory)

Top 20%

Seems like a really high cutoff. T20% @ Emory is usually going to NYC biglaw or home market biglaw. It looks like your firm has hired only 2 people who have graduated from Emory since the 1980's. I'm curious - how do you determine these grade cutoffs? Are they really hard cutoffs? Do you ever worry that you are missing on great candidates who don't have a top 20% GPA? Do you have cutoffs in other areas, or is GPA the only element of hiring that has a cutoff?

[Anonymous User]

Lawfirmrecruiter, thanks for taking questions.

My question is: do all big law firms conduct background checks? If so, what types of things will get someone dinged?

I'm #1 in my class at a T25 school, but I have a pretty tainted criminal background (two misdemeanor theft charges and multiple minor alcohol misdemeanors). How will this affect my employment opportunities with law firms?

Any information is appreciated.

Thanks.

Yes, all big firms conduct nationwide criminal checks. The theft charges especially will most likely raise some pretty serious concerns and red flags.

Thanks for answering. How do you suggest I deal with this during OCI? Is there anything I can do? Career services has been quite unhelpful and left me in the dark as to how I can mitigate the potential damage, so any information/advice is greatly appreciated.

[DocHawkeye]

At my school, legal writing is a graded, six hour course and there are prizes offered for the best 1L moot court memo and 1L moot court brief. Is winning one (or both) of these prizes and earning an A in legal writing enough to overcome a single below-median grade in a substantive course for fall 2L OCI (say a C+ in torts)?

Also, there is a strong possibility that I will be working for a public interest firm this summer. I am very excited about the opportunity but can't really imagine an entire career in public interest law. Is it possible to move from public interest to a civil litigation firm?

[Coolgrnmen]

At my school, legal writing is a graded, six hour course and there are prizes offered for the best 1L moot court memo and 1L moot court brief. Is winning one (or both) of these prizes and earning an A in legal writing enough to overcome a single below-median grade in a substantive course for fall 2L OCI (say a C+ in torts)?

Also, there is a strong possibility that I will be working for a public interest firm this summer. I am very excited about the opportunity but can't really imagine an entire career in public interest law. Is it possible to move from public interest to a civil litigation firm?

LFR may need more info to give you a better answer. Like your school's rank (I'm guessing George Mason just based on your avatar, but I don't know) and exactly where median is at your school. (3.3, 3.0?)

[Anonymous User]

Sorry if these have been covered, didn't see them anywhere.

1. What do you think of enlisted military veterans, as opposed to commissioned officers, with substantial leadership experience and have you seen any really positive or negative ways that they have presented their work experience to you?

2. If said veteran had a disability rating through the Department of Veterans Affairs that they were comfortable with disclosing, would this qualify for disability diversity purposes or bring any other benefit? To help explain, this would be a combination of several small service-connected injuries that rates me as 50% disabled for VA purposes, but would require no accommodations and is not outwardly apparent at all.

[ScrabbleChamp]

Sorry if these have been covered, didn't see them anywhere.

1. What do you think of enlisted military veterans, as opposed to commissioned officers, with substantial leadership experience and have you seen any really positive or negative ways that they have presented their work experience to you?

2. If said veteran had a disability rating through the Department of Veterans Affairs that they were comfortable with disclosing, would this qualify for disability diversity purposes or bring any other benefit? To help explain, this would be a combination of several small service-connected injuries that rates me as 50% disabled for VA purposes, but would require no accommodations and is not outwardly apparent at all.

I'm not a law firm recruiter, but as a disabled vet (injured in combat), I really have an issue with other vets that (not saying this is you, but almost every other combat vet I know feels the same way) "game" the system with regard to disability. I know someone that is 80% and runs marathons. There isn't a damn thing wrong with them, they just know how to "game" the system and claim every little disability known to man they can. In my out-processing, I had my rep tell me that I should go to the base clinic and make a complaint for everything I can just so that is in my medical record so that I can claim disability through the VA for it. Now, having said that, I'll say this to you: I'm sure at every law firm you apply there will be a vet. There may not be one on the hiring board, but they may be consulted to review your file due to your service. Unless you can responsibly explain every single disability you are claiming, I wouldn't mention it. If you try to tell a hiring partner that you are getting 50% disability (free money from the government) and you are an agile, happy-go-lucky human that is frolicking around like there isn't any thing wrong with you, I imagine they might question your integrity. On the other hand, if you are able to explain and prove your disabilities, I'm not sure how it can hurt you.

Also, if you are 50% VA, you should be at least 30% DOD via your medboard, in which case you should be receiving retirement pay from the DOD and I'd point that out more than the VA percentage, as it is more legit, IMHO.

[Anonymous User]

I'm not a law firm recruiter, but as a disabled vet (injured in combat), I really have an issue with other vets that (not saying this is you, but almost every other combat vet I know feels the same way) "game" the system with regard to disability. I know someone that is 80% and runs marathons. There isn't a damn thing wrong with them, they just know how to "game" the system and claim every little disability known to man they can. In my out-processing, I had my rep tell me that I should go to the base clinic and make a complaint for everything I can just so that is in my medical record so that I can claim disability through the VA for it. Now, having said that, I'll say this to you: I'm sure at every law firm you apply there will be a vet. There may not be one on the hiring board, but they may be consulted to review your file due to your service. Unless you can responsibly explain every single disability you are claiming, I wouldn't mention it. If you try to tell a hiring partner that you are getting 50% disability (free money from the government) and you are an agile, happy-go-lucky human that is frolicking around like there isn't any thing wrong with you, I imagine they might question your integrity. On the other hand, if you are able to explain and prove your disabilities, I'm not sure how it can hurt you.

Also, if you are 50% VA, you should be at least 30% DOD via your medboard, in which case you should be receiving retirement pay from the DOD and I'd point that out more than the VA percentage, as it is more legit, IMHO.

I'm the Anonymous who asked the question you're responding to.

I'm glad you felt the need to use my question as an opportunity to espouse your righteous indignation about whatever percentage of veterans there are that take advantage of the disability compensation system. As a combat-wounded veteran myself I recognize that there are some who do so. My question, though, is in reference to fully justified disabilities that I don't normally talk about, but which I wouldn't mind discussing in an interview context, if it would take me from being non-diverse to diverse. My apologies if what you thought I was asking was more along the lines of: "Can I reveal my unethically, if not fraudulently, obtained government benefits to continue lying and con my way into a job?"

You're perceived prestige of getting a medical board rating by the way - which I don't have because I finished my enlistment and, once a civilian, filed my claim within the statutory allowed one year period, which was then adjudicated by an administrative agency - over a VA rating seems to highlight your belief that VA disability ratings are just BS. Besides, almost every combat veteran I know has a disability rating that they earned jumping out of planes and kicking in doors like I used to do. Sorry, I just don't subscribe to your school of thought that seems to boil down to proving service-connection for a quantifiable disability equals "gaming" the system.

/derail

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for answering these questions!

I go to a regional T2 in SoCal.I have 1L experience as a summer associate at a firm in a different market. Every single interviewer has asked a) why am I not going back to AB&C LLP and/or do I plan on practicing in moving back to East Coast City to practice. Is it enough to flat out say "I worked for that firm because I felt it was a great opportunity to get solid experience. However, as much as I valued my experience, I ultimately want to work here when I graduate."

Is there anything else I should be saying to reduce their suspicions/fears of me moving back east?

[ScrabbleChamp]

I'm not a law firm recruiter, but as a disabled vet (injured in combat), I really have an issue with other vets that (not saying this is you, but almost every other combat vet I know feels the same way) "game" the system with regard to disability. I know someone that is 80% and runs marathons. There isn't a damn thing wrong with them, they just know how to "game" the system and claim every little disability known to man they can. In my out-processing, I had my rep tell me that I should go to the base clinic and make a complaint for everything I can just so that is in my medical record so that I can claim disability through the VA for it. Now, having said that, I'll say this to you: I'm sure at every law firm you apply there will be a vet. There may not be one on the hiring board, but they may be consulted to review your file due to your service. Unless you can responsibly explain every single disability you are claiming, I wouldn't mention it. If you try to tell a hiring partner that you are getting 50% disability (free money from the government) and you are an agile, happy-go-lucky human that is frolicking around like there isn't any thing wrong with you, I imagine they might question your integrity. On the other hand, if you are able to explain and prove your disabilities, I'm not sure how it can hurt you.

Also, if you are 50% VA, you should be at least 30% DOD via your medboard, in which case you should be receiving retirement pay from the DOD and I'd point that out more than the VA percentage, as it is more legit, IMHO.

I'm the Anonymous who asked the question you're responding to.

I'm glad you felt the need to use my question as an opportunity to espouse your righteous indignation about whatever percentage of veterans there are that take advantage of the disability compensation system. As a combat-wounded veteran myself I recognize that there are some who do so. My question, though, is in reference to fully justified disabilities that I don't normally talk about, but which I wouldn't mind discussing in an interview context, if it would take me from being non-diverse to diverse. My apologies if what you thought I was asking was more along the lines of: "Can I reveal my unethically, if not fraudulently, obtained government benefits to continue lying and con my way into a job?"

You're perceived prestige of getting a medical board rating by the way - which I don't have because I finished my enlistment and, once a civilian, filed my claim within the statutory allowed one year period, which was then adjudicated by an administrative agency - over a VA rating seems to highlight your belief that VA disability ratings are just BS. Besides, almost every combat veteran I know has a disability rating that they earned jumping out of planes and kicking in doors like I used to do. Sorry, I just don't subscribe to your school of thought that seems to boil down to proving service-connection for a quantifiable disability equals "gaming" the system.

/derail

My response wasn't meant to be righteous in any way... I was simply stating there are many, many people who abuse the system, so it is murky water when you approach this with a prospective employer.

The best thing I think you can do is avoid the issue. There are always going to be "righteous" people like myself that will be suspect of someone with a 50% rating from the VA, yet nothing from the DOD, especially given the amount of fraud that goes on with regard to the VA disability pay outs. Again, please don't take this to be directed explicitly at you... I don't know you and don't know what your disabilities are... But, as someone "in the know", I'd probably not hire anyone that applied (for any position) that had a sizable VA rating percentage, no DOD percentage, and appeared to be seemingly fine. I mean, based on your percentage and the way the VA determines percentage, half your body should not function properly. If I can't recognize that by looking at you, in my mind, something isn't kosher.

Avoid the topic... I think it will do more harm than good, whether or not you have a genuine entitlement.

[03121202698008]

Sorry if these have been covered, didn't see them anywhere.

1. What do you think of enlisted military veterans, as opposed to commissioned officers, with substantial leadership experience and have you seen any really positive or negative ways that they have presented their work experience to you?

2. If said veteran had a disability rating through the Department of Veterans Affairs that they were comfortable with disclosing, would this qualify for disability diversity purposes or bring any other benefit? To help explain, this would be a combination of several small service-connected injuries that rates me as 50% disabled for VA purposes, but would require no accommodations and is not outwardly apparent at all.

I'm a prior enlisted vet and firms seemed to love it during OCI. We talked about it substantially during both interviews and callbacks. I doubt the disability rating would help much more than the overall being a vet. I probably wouldn't bring it up if it was anything that wasn't going to add to my life story. E.g. being injured in combat vs. sleep apnea. I WOULD NOT bring up PTSD or related.

[Anonymous User]

1L, T30, top 25%. Sent some SA's apps out and got an offer to meet some attorneys at a firm for lunch (secondary home market, grew up +undergrad there). Is this something your firm does / likelihood this meeting could turn into a 1L SA offer? or is it more likely a chance to feel me out for next year OCI?

[croggs]

Hi Lawfirmrecruiter!

Thanks for your help so far.

On a resume, would you recommend including an 'Interests" section? And more specifically, would you recommend including "semi-professional poker player?" My inclination was to leave it off, because it can be a polarizing topic (some may think it's really cool/interesting and others may think I'm a degenerate that's playing a game of pure chance). The person in career services said to leave it on because it would be an interesting talking point and a way to stand out, but another friend who works in a law firm said to leave it off because it may be off-putting to some people. I'm in the top 5% at a TT school, and I've applied for four interviews with the following results: invited, not invited, not invited, and alternate. I know people in my class that are outside of the top 15% who have gotten selected over me, so I am trying to pinpoint where I am falling short.

Thanks!

[ph14]

Hi Lawfirmrecruiter!

Thanks for your help so far.

On a resume, would you recommend including an 'Interests" section? And more specifically, would you recommend including "semi-professional poker player?" My inclination was to leave it off, because it can be a polarizing topic (some may think it's really cool/interesting and others may think I'm a degenerate that's playing a game of pure chance). The person in career services said to leave it on because it would be an interesting talking point and a way to stand out, but another friend who works in a law firm said to leave it off because it may be off-putting to some people. I'm in the top 5% at a TT school, and I've applied for four interviews with the following results: invited, not invited, not invited, and alternate. I know people in my class that are outside of the top 15% who have gotten selected over me, so I am trying to pinpoint where I am falling short.

Thanks!

Not to hijack but thought i'd throw my 2 cents in here real quick. Definitely include an interests section. I would just put poker though, and if the other person is interested you could give them more details. Interests are definitely important. Lots of interviews spend a significant portion of time of the conversation based on shared interests or an interest they are intrigued by, etc.

[croggs]

Hi Lawfirmrecruiter!

Thanks for your help so far.

On a resume, would you recommend including an 'Interests" section? And more specifically, would you recommend including "semi-professional poker player?" My inclination was to leave it off, because it can be a polarizing topic (some may think it's really cool/interesting and others may think I'm a degenerate that's playing a game of pure chance). The person in career services said to leave it on because it would be an interesting talking point and a way to stand out, but another friend who works in a law firm said to leave it off because it may be off-putting to some people. I'm in the top 5% at a TT school, and I've applied for four interviews with the following results: invited, not invited, not invited, and alternate. I know people in my class that are outside of the top 15% who have gotten selected over me, so I am trying to pinpoint where I am falling short.

Thanks!

Not to hijack but thought i'd throw my 2 cents in here real quick. Definitely include an interests section. I would just put poker though, and if the other person is interested you could give them more details. Interests are definitely important. Lots of interviews spend a significant portion of time of the conversation based on shared interests or an interest they are intrigued by, etc.

I appreciate your input. I've definitely gotten conflicting opinions, and I think having an interests section definitely makes sense. However, I don't want to have really generic interests like "reading," "watching movies," "playing sports," and only things like that. I think poker could be an interesting topic, but I just wondering how it may be perceived by recruiters. In the interview I had, they were interested, but they made comments like yeah that's really cool how you can make money "if luck is on your side...." I just think a lot of people that aren't familiar with the game equate poker to gambling, which is certainly untrue (over the long-term). I'm just trying to pinpoint where I could improve on my application. I thought grades were the most important aspect of getting interviews, and people just inside the top 15% are getting some interviews over me and I'm in the top 2-3%. (Not trying to "sick brag" its a TT school).

[roranoa]

Sorry if this has been covered but what do you consider as a reasonable excuse for a 1 year gap in one's resume. Can you give me some examples on what kind of stories you would decide on not make it a big deal?

[johansantana21]

Always play it conservative when it comes to biglaw interviews. That's what a former associate told me.

[Anonymous User]

Would a candidate from Vanderbilt, with strong TN ties and a demonstrated dedication to Nashville have a shot at the schol2juris program with ~top 40% grades (3.3-3.4), a strong upward grade trend, and prior work experience? I guess I am mainly asking if grades would prevent this person from being offered a position at your firm.

[Anonymous User]

How are previous investment banking experiences viewed for corporate/transactional groups within the law firm? Would it be an asset or would it confuse people (ie. why would you leave banking for law) / come across as a flight risk?

[Anonymous User]

How would your firm react if an associate asked to do a PT MBA program? would your firm pay for part of it, encourage it? or tell them not to?

[Anonymous User]

I have accepted an offer for summer employment and couldn't be happier. However, I have a dismissed charge for a misdemeanor in my history (3+ years ago) - I warned them that it might show up on a background check and they wouldn't tell me if that would be a problem or not, but if it is they would tell me. As it is dismissed (not a conviction) do you think this would merit a revocation of their offer? Thanks in advance for your (or anyones!) help!
FWIW: My attorney at the time told me expunging the dismissed charge would be a waste of time, but of course now I'm regretting not doing it. I will be filing those papers tomorrow.

[Anonymous User]

I received a random email from a top 100 firm that I applied to last fall asking to set up a conference call. I was rejected in the fall.

What could this call with only 1 partner (the partner that heads the practice group that I want to work for) possibly be about? Is this going to be an offer?

[lawfirmrecruiter]

Would a candidate from Vanderbilt, with strong TN ties and a demonstrated dedication to Nashville have a shot at the schol2juris program with ~top 40% grades (3.3-3.4), a strong upward grade trend, and prior work experience? I guess I am mainly asking if grades would prevent this person from being offered a position at your firm.

It would probably depend on many factors including practice interest, improvement in grades,fit, etc. Grades are not the only factor considered.