HLS Preliminary Bidding Questions Forum

[Anonymous User]

6H/4P (although the P's are in the 4 core private law classes). Dramatic improvement from 1st to second semester. No significant work experience, have no frame of reference for interview skill, no science background. Ties to SoCal and Bay Area. Fiancee refuses to live in NYC, likes SF/DC, could be persuaded to live anywhere not mentioned. Do not want corporate work. Probably will do litigation although I am reading more about regulatory work and white collar defense and think they would also be interesting.

Some preliminary questions:
1) Do I have a shot at DC if I want it? If so, what sorts of firms should I be looking at?
2) If I want to go w/California, should I focus exclusively on LA/SD or do I have a realistic shot at top SF firms even w/no science background?
3) If I bid on LA, do I have a realistic shot at any of the following: Munger; Irell; Gibson?

[Anonymous User]

Congrats on the results. I heard Irell is almost all tech stuff, while Munger is EXTREMELY selective, so 6Hs may not cut it. Gibson is also pretty selective just due to the class size of its Cali offices.

Also at HLS. I'm curious how many Hs required for transactional/corporate-oriented SF firms with no Cali ties.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. Mostly a bump, but I actually thought Gibson LA had pretty big class sizes. Can someone confirm/deny?

Any other LA firms people recommend or do not recommend?

[Anonymous User]

DC will be tough. I had better grades and struck out at Wilmer, Sidley, and Gibson despite what I thought were good interviews. Covington and W&C also shot me down, but no surprise there. Landed callback at Baker Botts and offer at K&E, so those might be more in your ballpark.

[Anonymous User]

You should have a good shot at most less-than-ultra-selective firms in DC. Look at firms like Winston, Wiley, Hogan, Baker Botts, Venable, Steptoe etc.

[Moxie]

Just curious, how many Hs would be needed to get the elite DC firms (W&C, Wilmer, Sidley, GDC, etc.?)

Is 7 or 8 enough to have a serious shot at W&C or Covington?

[Anonymous User]

Best friend had 8H/2P with 3 DS's and got Covington but not W&C.

[Anonymous User]

Best friend had 8H/2P with 3 DS's and got Covington but not W&C.

Think grades were the problem at W&C? I'm in almost exactly the same position, and I'm not sure how I should bid.

[Anonymous User]

appxmtly what class rank is op? top third or more like median?

[Anonymous User]

OP here. Not sure, but my impression is roughly top 30%. HLS is incredibly opaque about these sorts of things, though.

Thanks for the advice!

[Anonymous User]

I was ~top 8% at CLS (3.62) and did quite well bidding exclusively in DC and LA. Got Covington, Wilmer, Sidley, GDC offers (I accepted an LA offer). I can't imagine top 1/3 at Harvard would do much worse than top 10% at Columbia. A friend with a 3.68 at Columbia got W&C but accepted at WLRK.

[Anonymous User]

I wasn't sure if I should hijack this thread or not, but it will probably be useful to condense all HLS bidding questions into one thread.

How about 2Hs/8Ps?
Additional notes: URM; 1L SA at major law firm in secondary market.

I'm interested in Boston firms that are 1) market-paying with 2) some basic modicum of work-life balance (read: minimum billables around 1,950 rather than 2,100). Working at a top-ranked Vault or ultra-prestigious firm is not important to me. I don't have a set practice area although I'm interested in immigration, employment discrimination, and soft IP. I'm trying out as many different practice areas as I can this summer to see which I prefer, but I am still very open to most.

I'm obviously well below median and might have a shot at a lower-ranked firm in NYC, but I'm curious how my grades will also fare in Boston. Does Boston tend to be more or less demanding with grades?

Thank you in advance!

[Anonymous User]

You should have a good shot. Your grades are not *that* bad, you're a URM, you managed to secure a SA position this summer, and Boston loves HLS students. I wouldn't marry myself to those practice areas in interviews though.

[Anonymous User]

given hls' weird grading system, do one or two additional Hs really make a substantial difference as far as career prospects? i cant image firms draw distinctions between guy #1 with 2 hs and guy #2 with 4hs. how much really turns on grades for those with neither truly fantastic results nor truly horrific ones.

my guess is it all comes down to background and interview skills for the big fat hls middle. is this right?

[Anonymous User]

Certain firms definitely have hard cut-offs, while others have ranges within which one pretty much must fall to have a shot. For instance, I've heard that S&C has a policy of giving callbacks only to interviewees with at least 5 Hs on their transcripts. Cleary also apparently has some bright-line grade requirements. So yes, a single grade or two may make or break an applicant at specific firms. But my guess is that for the "fat middle" of HLS students, it does come down to personality and fit more than anything else.

[Anonymous User]

I was ~top 8% at CLS (3.62) and did quite well bidding exclusively in DC and LA. Got Covington, Wilmer, Sidley, GDC offers (I accepted an LA offer). I can't imagine top 1/3 at Harvard would do much worse than top 10% at Columbia. A friend with a 3.68 at Columbia got W&C but accepted at WLRK.

I'm praying for W&C or Covington with 7H/3P from HLS (and URM), so this gives me some hope even though my class rank wouldn't be as high as that CLS person.

appxmtly what class rank is op? top third or more like median?

I thought median is 3H? So he'd be around top 25%? Am I way off on thinking that?

[Anonymous User]

Last year I had 6Hs and got over 10 callbacks in DC. A good strategy (sounds obvious, but everyone will discourage you from doing this) is to commit to exclusively DC and go for the full range of firms -- once you have more than 5Hs, the callback system is almost entirely interview-dependent.

[Anonymous User]

Indulge my delusions for a bit. I did extremely well first semester, but had a relatively awful 2nd term. Suppose that I completely hit it out of he park in a bunch of doctrinal courses as a 2l. Any shot I can slide from whatever v20 I end up at 2l summer into a v5 via 3l recruiting? More generally, is a 2l grade upswing ever a basis for doing 3l eip?

[Anonymous User]

Last year I had 6Hs and got over 10 callbacks in DC. A good strategy (sounds obvious, but everyone will discourage you from doing this) is to commit to exclusively DC and go for the full range of firms -- once you have more than 5Hs, the callback system is almost entirely interview-dependent.

Not a bad idea, I'm hoping I get an offer from my 1L SA so I can afford to be so risky in my 2L bidding. What percentage of those callbacks turned into offers (if you dont mind me asking?)

Indulge my delusions for a bit. I did extremely well first semester, but had a relatively awful 2nd term. Suppose that I completely hit it out of he park in a bunch of doctrinal courses as a 2l. Any shot I can slide from whatever v20 I end up at 2l summer into a v5 via 3l recruiting? More generally, is a 2l grade upswing ever a basis for doing 3l eip?

I think it depends on what grades you mean by "extremely well" and "relatively awful". Anecdotally I've heard of people firm-jumping to better firms through 3L, although it's pretty risky if you don't get a 2L SA since you could get shut out of biglaw altogether.

[Anonymous User]

I think it depends on what grades you mean by "extremely well" and "relatively awful". Anecdotally I've heard of people firm-jumping to better firms through 3L, although it's pretty risky if you don't get a 2L SA since you could get shut out of biglaw altogether.

One dean's scholar and two other Hs first term became only 1H4P second term. I *think* i can scrape together a gig at a firm like Debivoise or Kirkland and Ellis given my background and work experience, but it feels really shitty to have underperformed so badly second semester.

My plan is to go balls out 2l year, be in contention for the sears prize, receive an offer from my 2l summer firm, and then ultimately try to slide into the v5 during 3l eip. I know that a few v5 firms do recruit 3ls based on the OCS data I'm currently looking at, so I'm hoping I'll have a shot. fuck fuck fuck this is not the kind of post i hoped to be making just a few days ago. fuck!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Moxie]

One dean's scholar and two other Hs first term became only 1H4P second term. I *think* i can scrape together a gig at a firm like Debivoise or Kirkland and Ellis given my background and work experience, but it feels really shitty to have underperformed so badly second semester.

My plan is to go balls out 2l year, be in contention for the sears prize, receive an offer from my 2l summer firm, and then ultimately try to slide into the v5 during 3l eip. I know that a few v5 firms do recruit 3ls based on the OCS data I'm currently looking at, so I'm hoping I'll have a shot. fuck fuck fuck this is not the kind of post i hoped to be making just a few days ago. fuck!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well congrats on the good grades, overall it's a good profile! I think you still might have an outside shot at V5 through on-campus interviews, and maybe you'll even like your 2L firm enough not to try for 3LOLCI.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. Any clue of what firms are a definite ding with 6H? W&C? Covington? What if I make LR? (don't think I will but who knows)

[Anonymous User]

OP here. Any clue of what firms are a definite ding with 6H? W&C? Covington? What if I make LR? (don't think I will but who knows)

you'd be in decent shape for covington should you make law review. in any case, your grades are such that if you make a good impression with your interviewer, you'll have at least an outside shot.

w/r/t williams and connolly, however, i think you have little to no shot, law review or not.

[Anonymous User]

With those grades I wouldn't count yourself definitely in or definitely out of anything in D.C. Im a rising 3l and based on my experience and my friends experiences, once you have great grades and are looking at those top D.C. firms other things (ie whether you went straight through from undergrad or had an impressive job, whether you are on law review, interview skill, etc) end up playing a bigger role.

[Anonymous User]

I think it depends on what grades you mean by "extremely well" and "relatively awful". Anecdotally I've heard of people firm-jumping to better firms through 3L, although it's pretty risky if you don't get a 2L SA since you could get shut out of biglaw altogether.

One dean's scholar and two other Hs first term became only 1H4P second term. I *think* i can scrape together a gig at a firm like Debivoise or Kirkland and Ellis given my background and work experience, but it feels really shitty to have underperformed so badly second semester.

My plan is to go balls out 2l year, be in contention for the sears prize, receive an offer from my 2l summer firm, and then ultimately try to slide into the v5 during 3l eip. I know that a few v5 firms do recruit 3ls based on the OCS data I'm currently looking at, so I'm hoping I'll have a shot. fuck fuck fuck this is not the kind of post i hoped to be making just a few days ago. fuck!!!!!!!!!!!!

a lot of people with your grades -- and many even lower -- got davis polk this year, so if you are really just concerned with the vault rankings, you can relax.