Median at MVP Bid Strategy - Forum

[Anonymous User]

title pretty much sums up my situation. No work experience, solid interviewer, 1L District Court externship.

Is my best bet to bid on all the offices across the country that have attainable mean/median GPA's and large SA classes? Or should I focus on NY offices, as general TLS wisdom suggests?

In addition, I have some weak connections to solid firms in a secondary market/my hometown. I've scheduled coffee with associates/partners at 2 different firms. Should I try to land an interview at these informal meetings, or is that overly aggressive and shouldn't bring it up if they don't?

Finally, people often advise to mass-mail before OCI. Could someone please give a little more direction for this strategy? Should I simply start sending cover letter/resumes out to firms that will not appear at OCI?

thanks in advance for your help, TLS!

[thesealocust]

(1) Geographic focus is important. Every single person I know who focused on one, or at most two, markets did better than people who applied broadly. It's intangible, but it has a lot to do with your sales pitch, ability to do sufficient research, background, etc.

(2) NYC is always a good bet for somebody from the T14 due to its size relative to other legal markets.

(3) Do NOT try to land interviews at informal meetings. You have a good chance of having one materialize, but it would be a pretty basic breach of decorum to ask for an interview. They'll know you're looking, and it will at least make great / convincing cover letter material if you apply later.

(4) Yes, you should be mailing employers who are not attending OCI. There's no secret beyond that: Look at who is coming, comb through lists of small firms (some still pay big law bucks and hire recent grads), V100 / NLJ 250 firms that aren't attending OCI but are hiring summer classes, strong regional firms, firms with alumni, etc. Make sure you do this well before OCI 'season' because many employers you have a chance at will be doing OCI, just not at your school, and you want your resume before the recruiting staff well before their slammed by OCI.

[vamedic03]

(1) Geographic focus is important. Every single person I know who focused on one, or at most two, markets did better than people who applied broadly. It's intangible, but it has a lot to do with your sales pitch, ability to do sufficient research, background, etc.

(2) NYC is always a good bet for somebody form the T14 due to its size relative to other legal markets.

(3) Do NOT try to land interviews at informal meetings. You have a good chance of having one materialize, but it would be a pretty basic breach of decorum to ask for an interview. They'll know you're looking, and it will at least make great / convincing cover letter material if you apply later.

(4) Yes, you should be mailing employers who are not attending OCI. There's no secret beyond that: Look at who is coming, comb through lists of small firms (some still pay big law bucks and hire recent grads), V100 / NLJ 250 firms that aren't attending OCI but are hiring summer classes, strong regional firms, firms with alumni, etc. Make sure you do this well before OCI 'season' because many employers you have a chance at will be doing OCI, just not at your school, and you want your resume before the recruiting staff well before their slammed by OCI.

100% spot on.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. Thank you sealocust - that is exactly the type of advice i was looking for. this thread could be a model of when TLS posters are polite and helpful.

For #3, does 'well before OCI season' mean essentially now? Also, for mass-mailing, does the same advice apply - that I should focus on one region? Or the employers won't know where I "bid" so I should simply look for firms that may hire me anywhere I'd be ok with moving to?

Thanks again!

[thesealocust]

I think regional focus is less important for mass-mailing. You've got a much higher barrier to entry, and if you can pen a letter that gets the firm to fly you out for an interview to several different locals, more power to you.

With respect to timing, now is a bit to early. I think before July is way early, and realistically mid July, maybe August 1 would be a solid target. You're applying for summer associate positions, which means the firms' recruiting departments are likely busy with their current summer class at the moment.

[rayiner]

Bid up and down the rankings focusing on firms with big class sizes. Don't underbid. You're in the running as long as you're not out of the running, and I think you're only categorically out of the running at the V10 (except Weil) and a few of the more selective V20s (Paul Weiss, etc).

[plum]

tagged

[Younger Abstention]

Avoid DC like the plague.

[Helmholtz]

Avoid DC like the plague.

Credited. I've been hearing more and more stories of people who did okay, but not spectacular, at MVP, went full-on for DC, and got seriously burned.

[bjsesq]

Avoid DC like the plague.

Credited. I've been hearing more and more stories of people who did okay, but not spectacular, at MVP, went full-on for DC, and got seriously burned.

NU as well. DC is the ebola of OCI.

[tipler4213]

taggers. I see me writing this same post in a year...

[underachiever]

.

[danidancer]

I'm wondering though, with all of the "avoid DC at all costs" talk that's been going on, whether DC might be a little less competitive this year?

[Anonymous User]

bay area f---ing sucks. If you're from California and want to stay in California, you have a better chance in that sh---thole called LA.

That said, if your school is dumb like mine, they will give you a pdf with stats averaged over 5-10 years. Add at least .1 to the median in ITE.

Fill your last few slots with firms you have no chance at. These firms are generally under subscribed and while you wont get a callback, you will get a practice round. Demand for median firms is very high. You wont get any past the first 10 slots, at least at mich.

Pay attention to which office you are applying to. In many firms, back water offices are much much easier to get in and have lower medians. This generally does not apply to California and the bay area in particular where its always much higher than every where else in the country.

Median sucks. It's a hit or miss numbers game. You will have great interviews at unattainable firms and you will have lousy interviews with lousy interviewers at sh--t firms.

Everyone thinks they are great interviewees, few are. OCS will give thumbs up to at least half the people who walk in their doors. Being affable is necessary but sufficient in ITE. You really need to spend some time rehearsing some solid canned responses that hit all the main points you want to sell yourself on but then deliver it as if it came naturally to you. It should be like watching the west wing. Every interviewer is different and it really is an art. Some talk all day long and if you're passive, you lose a chance to make an impression. They want you to interrupt them. Others are very timid and you have to be equally timid with them. Matching your tone with your interviewers is very important. Most of this will come with practice. You will be surprised at how much better you get even over the course of 2-3 days of OCI.

[KeepitKind]

Demand for median firms is very high. You wont get any past the first 10 slots, at least at mich.

What are 'median firms'? Which firms would be best to target for someone in a position similar to OP's? Which firms should fill slots 10-20?

Thanks!

[dood]

CA is a fucking bloodbath. maybe bid PH or GD, since both HQs are in LA. otherwise fuck ur CA dreaming and concentrate on big offices in NY.

[Anonymous User]

CA is a fucking bloodbath. maybe bid PH or GD, since both HQs are in LA. otherwise fuck ur CA dreaming and concentrate on big offices in NY.

Similar situation. I'm also at MVP but the median is not really published, no rank, etc so I'm not quite sure where I stand. I think our curve goes to a B+, and my gpa is at 3.8 after a rough second semester (compared to the first semester, 4.0+, a drop which will be interesting explaining in interviews). I really wanted LA, but I have heard real horror stories about trying to get in with no ties to the market. I was counting on my gpa to carry me through without ties, but after second semester grades I am now questioning that. Am I in contention at all or would LA bids be a waste of time?

[Morgan12Oak]

Ties are tough for CA, but if you have those kinds of grades from MVP, you're gonna probably be the exception and I doubt many of your bids, if any, would be a true waste. You still might not get as many callbacks as you would from like NY, but you're not out of the running anywhere.

[timbs4339]

I'm wondering though, with all of the "avoid DC at all costs" talk that's been going on, whether DC might be a little less competitive this year?

No, because the reason DC is so competitive is because of the HYS students and all the top 10% T-14ers who want DC. These people will still be bidding on DC. The ones who are getting off that track (hopefully) are the ones who never had a shot.

[dood]

Ties are tough for CA, but if you have those kinds of grades from MVP, you're gonna probably be the exception and I doubt many of your bids, if any, would be a true waste. You still might not get as many callbacks as you would from like NY, but you're not out of the running anywhere.

yea, when i say CA is a bloodbath, i mean for median. 3.8 should be good enough to get CBs, but i still recommend not bidding on satellite offices that only take 2-3 SAs. or for that matter 6-10. i mean, why even gamble when NY offices take 50-100 SAs...so many more spots for u. but yea, i imagine ud be $$$ at GD, PH, O&M, etc

[Anonymous User]

I was median at MVP, no impressive experience, not very good interviewer, etc. Landed a couple of callbacks from OCI but struck out basically. Then suddenly managed to get an offer from a secondary market I have strong connections to.

Absolutely mass mail BEFORE OCI. I wish I had done this. I think August 1st is a good time to start. Pick a couple of markets and focus on them. Make sure to say "I will be available at x time in this area" if applicable. Make it easy for the recruiter.

Don't bother with markets you don't have strong connections to. Firms will ask where you're interviewing market-wise and you don't want to be reeling off seven places. Obviously you can lie, but still. Absolutely apply in NYC.

Have extremely solid answers to "why law school", "why litigation/why transactional", and "tell me about your 1L summer". Rehearse standard stories about your 1L summer gig and other experiences that sound impressive. If you sound polished and confident, that is the majority of the battle won.

Median at MVP can go a lot of ways. Good luck.

[Anonymous User]

How about Quinn Emanuel in LA? What type of gpa do you need from MVP to be in contention?

[Doritos]

CA is a fucking bloodbath. maybe bid PH or GD, since both HQs are in LA. otherwise fuck ur CA dreaming and concentrate on big offices in NY.

Similar situation. I'm also at MVP but the median is not really published, no rank, etc so I'm not quite sure where I stand. I think our curve goes to a B+, and my gpa is at 3.8 after a rough second semester (compared to the first semester, 4.0+, a drop which will be interesting explaining in interviews). I really wanted LA, but I have heard real horror stories about trying to get in with no ties to the market. I was counting on my gpa to carry me through without ties, but after second semester grades I am now questioning that. Am I in contention at all or would LA bids be a waste of time?

Your GPA still will carry you through. Also, the fact that you will be on law review in like a month. You are like top 5%

[Bronte]

How about Quinn Emanuel in LA? What type of gpa do you need from MVP to be in contention?

Top quarter?

[thesealocust]

How about Quinn Emanuel in LA? What type of gpa do you need from MVP to be in contention?

Top quarter?

Quinn is a firm likely to be increasing in selectivity over time. Their profile and profitability have been shooting through the roof lately. No idea where they used to or currently will hire, just something to keep in mind. A few years ago they didn't have nearly the same rep they do today.