What to Have When Preparing for OCI Forum

[Anonymous User]

What should a 1L have ready for OCI?

Is there something I should be doing the summer before school to prepare myself/get ahead of the game?

Will the interviewers ask for UG transcripts?

Also, I've always wondered about this--I know people say to send letters to firms before December 1st but I won't have any grades. Why would they call me back if they have no reason to believe ive succeeded so far in law school?

A lot of questions, i know, but I appreciate any and all advice. Actually, I think A LOT of 0Ls would appreciate any and all advice.

[Mike12188]

Also interested in this. TYIA

[rocon7383]

Also interested in this. TYIA

same. very interested to hear.

[20160810]

Honestly if you've got the basics - copies of all your shit (tscripts, cover letter FOR THE RIGHT FIRM, resumes, etc.) and a nice suit - you're going to be fine. What you SAY in an interview is generally 100x more important than what you HAVE. That said, I do have two little tips for anyone.

1.) Shoes. Get a nice pair of dress shoes. They should be pricey, black, classic style, leather, and shined. I can't tell you how many people go out and buy a nice $500+ suit and then throw on some shitty black dress shoes they got at Payless in high school. It looks like amateur hour, and interviewers look for things like attention to detail. This is an investment you simply will not regret.

2.) A smart phone. Most of you already have one, so this is NBD, but I got my Droid before OCI and it was a godsend, especially during callbacks. Before an interviewer, you generally have 15 minutes or so to kill sitting around the lobby. Use this time to access the firm's website and do a little last-minute brushing up on the person(s) who will be interviewing you. That way if the conversation lulls, you can pop in with "I was looking at your bio on the website, and..." or something.

[Sup Kid]

2.) A smart phone. Most of you already have one, so this is NBD, but I got my Droid before OCI and it was a godsend, especially during callbacks. Before an interviewer, you generally have 15 minutes or so to kill sitting around the lobby. Use this time to access the firm's website and do a little last-minute brushing up on the person(s) who will be interviewing you. That way if the conversation lulls, you can pop in with "I was looking at your bio on the website, and..." or something.

+1, so credited

[Anonymous User]

Honestly if you've got the basics - copies of all your shit (tscripts, cover letter FOR THE RIGHT FIRM, resumes, etc.) and a nice suit - you're going to be fine. What you SAY in an interview is generally 100x more important than what you HAVE. That said, I do have two little tips for anyone.

1.) Shoes. Get a nice pair of dress shoes. They should be pricey, black, classic style, leather, and shined. I can't tell you how many people go out and buy a nice $500+ suit and then throw on some shitty black dress shoes they got at Payless in high school. It looks like amateur hour, and interviewers look for things like attention to detail. This is an investment you simply will not regret.

2.) A smart phone. Most of you already have one, so this is NBD, but I got my Droid before OCI and it was a godsend, especially during callbacks. Before an interviewer, you generally have 15 minutes or so to kill sitting around the lobby. Use this time to access the firm's website and do a little last-minute brushing up on the person(s) who will be interviewing you. That way if the conversation lulls, you can pop in with "I was looking at your bio on the website, and..." or something.

udergrad transcripts? GULP. I kinda had too much fun second semester and did pretty poorly. Not D/F poorly, but just mediocre bordering on uninspired.

[20160810]

Honestly if you've got the basics - copies of all your shit (tscripts, cover letter FOR THE RIGHT FIRM, resumes, etc.) and a nice suit - you're going to be fine. What you SAY in an interview is generally 100x more important than what you HAVE. That said, I do have two little tips for anyone.

1.) Shoes. Get a nice pair of dress shoes. They should be pricey, black, classic style, leather, and shined. I can't tell you how many people go out and buy a nice $500+ suit and then throw on some shitty black dress shoes they got at Payless in high school. It looks like amateur hour, and interviewers look for things like attention to detail. This is an investment you simply will not regret.

2.) A smart phone. Most of you already have one, so this is NBD, but I got my Droid before OCI and it was a godsend, especially during callbacks. Before an interviewer, you generally have 15 minutes or so to kill sitting around the lobby. Use this time to access the firm's website and do a little last-minute brushing up on the person(s) who will be interviewing you. That way if the conversation lulls, you can pop in with "I was looking at your bio on the website, and..." or something.

udergrad transcripts? GULP. I kinda had too much fun second semester and did pretty poorly. Not D/F poorly, but just mediocre bordering on uninspired.

A very slim minority of firms require undergrad transcripts, and those that do tend to put something about it on their symplicity profile. I did not have to furnish mine once, if that gives you any comfort.

[Cavalier]

The only Vault firm I recall requesting an undergrad transcript was Cravath. Some smaller firms requested them as well.

[Anonymous User]

The only Vault firm I recall requesting an undergrad transcript was Cravath. Some smaller firms requested them as well.

Grr... Stupid of me to slack off, I had just always assumed they would not request it.

[Cavalier]

The only Vault firm I recall requesting an undergrad transcript was Cravath. Some smaller firms requested them as well.

Grr... Stupid of me to slack off, I had just always assumed they would not request it.

Who cares? You don't want to work for Cravath anyway.

[Allure]

This thread is confusing. Are you talking about materials you should have ready when you send out materials for jobs for 1L summer? Or 2L EIW/EIP/OCI? If the former, undergraduate transcripts are useful to have around. If the latter, undergraduate transcripts are not needed. Cravath will ask for them, but I doubt they'll care if you otherwise have the credentials sufficient for a job there.

I'm assuming you're talking about the main interview week. If so, collecting well tailored business clothing is a good. You have enough heads up time to wait for a good sale to come by.

Other than that, just focus on your social skills. If you have asperger's, start seeing a therapist. If you're just socially awkward, become not socially awkward. If you're a creep, become less of a creep. If you're just weird, become less weird.

I realize a lot of this is human nature. When I say "become less weird," I mean "understand what it is that makes you seem weird and strive not to show those things when you're interviewing and working with others." However, if you're actually creepy, work on it.

And I mean these things 100%. When the interviewee meets the usually low grade-cutoffs, what makes them not pass the smell test is stuff like the above.

[Allure]

The only Vault firm I recall requesting an undergrad transcript was Cravath. Some smaller firms requested them as well.

Grr... Stupid of me to slack off, I had just always assumed they would not request it.

Who cares? You don't want to work for Cravath anyway.

So what if he does? I keep reading lines like these and I can't help but wonder how much of it is just jealousy. Cravath is a great firm and they train their associates to be excellent lawyers.

[DAJ_Summer]

It's vary hard to prepare for OCI, because you don't know what you don't know. Learning that one firm is good at capital markets and another at mass tort defense won't really mean much at this stage.

Looking at lots of sources, like vault and chambers associate and these forums, can be helpful.

[DAJ_Summer]

The only Vault firm I recall requesting an undergrad transcript was Cravath. Some smaller firms requested them as well.

Grr... Stupid of me to slack off, I had just always assumed they would not request it.

Who cares? You don't want to work for Cravath anyway.

So what if he does? I keep reading lines like these and I can't help but wonder how much of it is just jealousy. Cravath is a great firm and they train their associates to be excellent lawyers.

No, Cavalier is right. It is objectively true that nobody wants to work at Cravath.

[Renzo]

No, Cavalier is right. It is objectively true that nobody wants to work at Cravath.

I wanted to work at Cravath.

[DAJ_Summer]

No, Cavalier is right. It is objectively true that nobody wants to work at Cravath.

I wanted to work at Cravath.

You probably at one point <i>thought</i> you wanted to work at Cravath, which is an understandable transitory state.

Edit: ugh, how do you make italics here?

[beachbum]

Thanks for the heads-up, everyone. I'll have plenty of free time this summer to get stuff together, so threads like these are very helpful.

[Renzo]

No, Cavalier is right. It is objectively true that nobody wants to work at Cravath.

I wanted to work at Cravath.

You probably at one point <i>thought</i> you wanted to work at Cravath, which is an understandable transitory state.

Edit: ugh, how do you make italics here?

Nah, I was straight up gunning for sweatshops at OCI. I'm that guy.

[dood]

No, Cavalier is right. It is objectively true that nobody wants to work at Cravath.

I wanted to work at Cravath.

me too brother, me too

[BackToTheOldHouse]

2.) A smart phone. Most of you already have one, so this is NBD, but I got my Droid before OCI and it was a godsend, especially during callbacks. Before an interviewer, you generally have 15 minutes or so to kill sitting around the lobby. Use this time to access the firm's website and do a little last-minute brushing up on the person(s) who will be interviewing you. That way if the conversation lulls, you can pop in with "I was looking at your bio on the website, and..." or something.

+1, so credited

I would be worried about looking like the dork teenager playing with my phone before an important interview, but I guess that just shows that I'm old (I have a smartphone and I can't stand watching undergrads fiddle with their phones all the time).

[RVP11]

The only Vault firm I recall requesting an undergrad transcript was Cravath. Some smaller firms requested them as well.

Grr... Stupid of me to slack off, I had just always assumed they would not request it.

Who cares? You don't want to work for Cravath anyway.

So what if he does? I keep reading lines like these and I can't help but wonder how much of it is just jealousy. Cravath is a great firm and they train their associates to be excellent lawyers.

If you can get a job at Cravath, you can also probably get a job at at least one of SullCrom, DPW, STB, Cleary, Kirkland, etc.

I - and I think most other sane people - would take any of those firms over Cravath.

[beachbum]

If you can get a job at Cravath, you can also probably get a job at at least one of SullCrom, DPW, STB, Cleary, Kirkland, etc.

I - and I think most other sane people - would take any of those firms over Cravath.

An ignorant 0L question, but what makes Cravath so bad? Is it just the hours? And are they really that much worse than comparable firms? It seems strange that one firm would work its associates so much harder, particularly when overall compensation at that firm is similar (if not identical) to its peers.

[RVP11]

If you can get a job at Cravath, you can also probably get a job at at least one of SullCrom, DPW, STB, Cleary, Kirkland, etc.

I - and I think most other sane people - would take any of those firms over Cravath.

An ignorant 0L question, but what makes Cravath so bad? Is it just the hours? And are they really that much worse than comparable firms? It seems strange that one firm would work its associates so much harder, particularly when overall compensation at that firm is similar (if not identical) to its peers.

Reputation for sweatshoppy hours (though probably no worse than you'd find at similar NYC firms)

Reputation for mean, screaming partners (probably even worse than you'd find at similar NYC firms, and maybe much worse than you'd find at one of the "nice" firms like DPW, STB, or Cleary)

Hasn't recovered nearly as quickly as firms like SullCrom or Kirkland

The prestige and quality of work "bump" from V5 or V10 to V2 isn't very big

[Renzo]

Reputation for mean, screaming partners (probably even worse than you'd find at similar NYC firms, and maybe much worse than you'd find at one of the "nice" firms like DPW, STB, or Cleary)

This is what attracted me to it. I turned down an offer from one of those "nice" firms, because the people really creeped me out. I'd much rather hear about it right away if I fuck up than have someone be polite and fire you at the end of the year for incompetence.

[DAJ_Summer]

If you can get a job at Cravath, you can also probably get a job at at least one of SullCrom, DPW, STB, Cleary, Kirkland, etc.

I - and I think most other sane people - would take any of those firms over Cravath.

An ignorant 0L question, but what makes Cravath so bad? Is it just the hours? And are they really that much worse than comparable firms? It seems strange that one firm would work its associates so much harder, particularly when overall compensation at that firm is similar (if not identical) to its peers.

What RVP11 wrote in response sums up a lot of the thoughts people have about it. Cravath's prestige is largely historical - it has a hell of a lot more peers (true peers, not near peers) these days than it used to.

While people work long hours at any firm, at Cravath it's particularly cultural and unavoidable. Firms have reputations that are stereotypical and not always true on an individual level, but Cravath's reputation for yelling or sternness or formality is definitely nut entirely undeserved.

Cravath also arguably suffered the worst in the down turn amongst its 'peer' group, which was surprising and damning.

What it really boils down to isn't that Cravath is bad, it's that its flaws and quirks are not really balanced out by major positive sides. The deals and exit options and cases and compensation and perks at Cravath, to most people, don't actually compensate at all for the perceived harshness compared to its competitors. All that's really left is that historical veneer of prestige.