How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner? Forum

[BlueLotus]

If an employer doesn't specify the length of a writing sample, what is the max length it should be?

Also, which one of these three is best for a writing sample?:
1.) a paper for a seminar class (similar to an LR "note")
2.) a "know-your-rights" booklet for clients that i wrote for a legal aid org
3) brief/memoranda

[Tanicius]

3Ls/Valers/current PDs,

which Legal Aid/PD's offices for sure don't ask for transcripts?

my grades are bad enough that my gpa is not posted on my resume ...but despite that, ejw is treating me quite well (must be cuz my cover letters/resume SCREAMS "demonstrated commitment" through volunteering/internships)

of course i have four more semesters to show an "upward trend", but my 1L performance was not pretty, to say the least.

Better question to ask: Why would you EVER not apply to a PD just because they ask for your grades? Don't preemptively reject yourself, capiche?

i suppose you're right. i just figured that sub-3.0=automatic ding for places that do ask. gov/pi employers are not typically as grade whoring as biglaw, but i've noticed (on the U of AZ Gov Honors site) that 3.0 is floor for many places.

AG offices are academically intensive. It's not even remotely the same type of work. Pubdefense is legal-side social work. You're in the trenches. Grades do not reflect an aptitude for the work, period. If you get rejected by an office, I promise you grades will not be the DECIDING factor.

[Tanicius]

If an employer doesn't specify the length of a writing sample, what is the max length it should be?

Also, which one of these three is best for a writing sample?:
1.) a paper for a seminar class (similar to an LR "note")
2.) a "know-your-rights" booklet for clients that i wrote for a legal aid org
3) brief/memoranda

Brief, easy. Brief >>> memo >> everything else. I can see some trial offices not even considering non-brief-style writing samples.

[spleenworship]

3Ls/Valers/current PDs,

which Legal Aid/PD's offices for sure don't ask for transcripts?

my grades are bad enough that my gpa is not posted on my resume ...but despite that, ejw is treating me quite well (must be cuz my cover letters/resume SCREAMS "demonstrated commitment" through volunteering/internships)

of course i have four more semesters to show an "upward trend", but my 1L performance was not pretty, to say the least.

Better question to ask: Why would you EVER not apply to a PD just because they ask for your grades? Don't preemptively reject yourself, capiche?

i suppose you're right. i just figured that sub-3.0=automatic ding for places that do ask. gov/pi employers are not typically as grade whoring as biglaw, but i've noticed (on the U of AZ Gov Honors site) that 3.0 is floor for many places.

AG offices are academically intensive. It's not even remotely the same type of work. PD work is legal-side social work. You're in the trenches. Grades do not reflect an aptitude for the work, period. If you get rejected by an office, I promise you grades will not be the DECIDING factor.

With the exception of New Hampshire, apparently

[Tanicius]

Just because NH asks for high grades does not mean they value that factor over other more important factors.

[Anonymous User]

3Ls/Valers/current PDs,

which Legal Aid/PD's offices for sure don't ask for transcripts?

my grades are bad enough that my gpa is not posted on my resume ...but despite that, ejw is treating me quite well (must be cuz my cover letters/resume SCREAMS "demonstrated commitment" through volunteering/internships)

of course i have four more semesters to show an "upward trend", but my 1L performance was not pretty, to say the least.

Better question to ask: Why would you EVER not apply to a PD just because they ask for your grades? Don't preemptively reject yourself, capiche?

i suppose you're right. i just figured that sub-3.0=automatic ding for places that do ask. gov/pi employers are not typically as grade whoring as biglaw, but i've noticed (on the U of AZ Gov Honors site) that 3.0 is floor for many places.

AG offices are academically intensive. It's not even remotely the same type of work. PD work is legal-side social work. You're in the trenches. Grades do not reflect an aptitude for the work, period. If you get rejected by an office, I promise you grades will not be the DECIDING factor.

true, true. but i can def see grades/journal being a tiebreaker, where there are two candidates with equivalent demonstrated commitment to serving the indigent (i.e. both interned every semester, did a clinic, volunteered, fluent in Spanish, etc.)

yeah, i've aimed to do "in the trenches" work as opposed to policy-oriented (i.e. ACLU, SPLC), which tend to care a great deal about rank/LR. if i came to law school for biglaw/"prestigious pi" i would've dropped out easily, b/c my gpa effectively forecloses those opportunities.

[BlueLotus]

Just because NH asks for high grades does not mean they value that factor over other more important factors.

I'd imagine "high grades" for PD would be a different standard than "high grades" for BigLaw/clerkships...

[Tanicius]

Just because NH asks for high grades does not mean they value that factor over other more important factors.

I'd imagine "high grades" for PD would be a different standard than "high grades" for BigLaw/clerkships...

Even if a PD office says top third and law review from T14, there is only one way to make sure: apply and find out. What do you lose in the worst case scenario? Like five minutes of your time.

[BlueLotus]

What should be max length of a writing sample if they don't specify?

[Tanicius]

What should be max length of a writing sample if they don't specify?

Ten pages.

[Anonymous User]

Just because NH asks for high grades does not mean they value that factor over other more important factors.

I'd imagine "high grades" for PD would be a different standard than "high grades" for BigLaw/clerkships...

Even if a PD office says top third and law review from T14, there is only one way to make sure: apply and find out. What do you lose in the worst case scenario? Like five minutes of your time.

good point. my mediocre grades have created a sense of inferiority that i'm still struggling to get over (hence the hesitancy of applying to offices wanting "high grades"...whatever than means), even though it's almost been 4 months since they were released.

[Tanicius]

Just because NH asks for high grades does not mean they value that factor over other more important factors.

I'd imagine "high grades" for PD would be a different standard than "high grades" for BigLaw/clerkships...

Even if a PD office says top third and law review from T14, there is only one way to make sure: apply and find out. What do you lose in the worst case scenario? Like five minutes of your time.

good point. my mediocre grades have created a sense of inferiority that i'm still struggling to get over (hence the hesitancy of applying to offices wanting "high grades"...whatever than means), even though it's almost been 4 months since they were released.

I have very low grades. I'm better at arguing on paper or in court than I am at arguing on a law exam, and my achievements and references will all vet me on that. That's my angle, and it sounds like yours too.

[Anonymous User]

for those of you at NY area schools, Bronx Defenders contacted me about interviewing in NY today, and told me that is why they weren't going to accept me for an interview at EJW.

Thanks for the heads up, their direct application is due on Friday so I guess I'll just re-send them my stuff if I don't hear from them. Also, did they contact you via phone or email?

They contacted me via email today-- the HR person is sending all things out individually, so my guess is she is very swamped. She said she would be in touch "shortly."

[Anonymous User]

3Ls/Valers/current PDs,

which Legal Aid/PD's offices for sure don't ask for transcripts?

my grades are bad enough that my gpa is not posted on my resume ...but despite that, ejw is treating me quite well (must be cuz my cover letters/resume SCREAMS "demonstrated commitment" through volunteering/internships)

of course i have four more semesters to show an "upward trend", but my 1L performance was not pretty, to say the least.

this is for internships right? If people have multiple interview offers from EJW when I haven't heard anything I'm gonna be pretty bummed. Congrats though and yeah I really don't think the GPA is ever a real issue. In fact I was just kinda thinking about how having not great grades could be a something you could spin in a positive way like "people look down on me for circumstances I can't 100% control" kinda like clients OR "I have an issue with authority"

[Anonymous User]

Can someone who has figured out this LAS application please tell me how the fuck to convert everything from pdf to word to pdf back again. Well some things are just word documents but how do I convert everything into one PDF document without it looking like shit. I'm using a mac. HALP.

Current 3L here ... no words from EJW apps yet but only applied to PD offices

[Anonymous User]

3Ls/Valers/current PDs,

which Legal Aid/PD's offices for sure don't ask for transcripts?

my grades are bad enough that my gpa is not posted on my resume ...but despite that, ejw is treating me quite well (must be cuz my cover letters/resume SCREAMS "demonstrated commitment" through volunteering/internships)

of course i have four more semesters to show an "upward trend", but my 1L performance was not pretty, to say the least.

this is for internships right? If people have multiple interview offers from EJW when I haven't heard anything I'm gonna be pretty bummed. Congrats though and yeah I really don't think the GPA is ever a real issue. In fact I was just kinda thinking about how having not great grades could be a something you could spin in a positive way like "people look down on me for circumstances I can't 100% control" kinda like clients OR "I have an issue with authority"

lol, i hope an employer that sees my transcript buys that positive spin! yeah, internship, not postgrad. interestingly, the employer i got an interview for today does not ask for transcripts for postgrad fellowship--just cover letter, resume, references, and writing sample.

[BlueLotus]

Got an EJW interview finally! Picked the last interview slot, lol.

Congrats! What office?

Sorry, should have posted anon. If you wanna know, feel free to PM me.

Best of luck with the EJW waiting game!

[Anonymous User]

Just because NH asks for high grades does not mean they value that factor over other more important factors.

I'd imagine "high grades" for PD would be a different standard than "high grades" for BigLaw/clerkships...

Even if a PD office says top third and law review from T14, there is only one way to make sure: apply and find out. What do you lose in the worst case scenario? Like five minutes of your time.

good point. my mediocre grades have created a sense of inferiority that i'm still struggling to get over (hence the hesitancy of applying to offices wanting "high grades"...whatever than means), even though it's almost been 4 months since they were released.

I wasn't selected last year at EJW for NH probably because of my grades as I got interviews and some offers from everywhere else I applied last year.

[robin600]

If an employer doesn't specify the length of a writing sample, what is the max length it should be?

Also, which one of these three is best for a writing sample?:
1.) a paper for a seminar class (similar to an LR "note")
2.) a "know-your-rights" booklet for clients that i wrote for a legal aid org
3) brief/memoranda

Brief, easy. Brief >>> memo >> everything else. I can see some trial offices not even considering non-brief-style writing samples.

Like an appellate brief? What do you mean by brief? I have a hard time believing trial offices want a brief. Like a motion? I use a memo i wrote for a supervisor on a crim law topic relevant to a fourth amendment issue for myo writing sample and so far no complaints.

[spleenworship]

Can someone who has figured out this LAS application please tell me how the fuck to convert everything from pdf to word to pdf back again. Well some things are just word documents but how do I convert everything into one PDF document without it looking like shit. I'm using a mac. HALP.

Current 3L here ... no words from EJW apps yet but only applied to PD offices

Pay for the converter from adobe to make it all word, then copy and paste it into one word doc. Then "save as" and choose PDF format. And done.

[Lawst]

Can someone who has figured out this LAS application please tell me how the fuck to convert everything from pdf to word to pdf back again. Well some things are just word documents but how do I convert everything into one PDF document without it looking like shit. I'm using a mac. HALP.

Current 3L here ... no words from EJW apps yet but only applied to PD offices

Pay for the converter from adobe to make it all word, then copy and paste it into one word doc. Then "save as" and choose PDF format. And done.

Or, ask the law library or career services. You probably have access to some program for free through school if you don't want to buy the converter just for this. I know you can compile all into one PDF through Adobe Acrobat, because it's what my clinic used for Bates stamping. No idea about converting back.

ETA: IIRC, you can also get a free trial of Acrobat for a certain number of days - try that if it's still available.

[Pretzel_Logic]

To the anon worried about grades, JUST APPLY ANYWAY. It doesn't matter and you lose nothing by trying.

By way of anecdote, I did pretty okay my 1L year and got absolutely hulk-smashed beyond-median-pwned my 2L fall. I interviewed with the USAO during my 2L spring and got a spot as a law clerk anyway. In that office, I think maybe all but one of the attorneys were in the top ten of their respective classes, but they took a chance on me anyway. In my experience, the commitment is what matters, so really sell that.

As for writing sample, I always use a brief (or at least one argument from it). It's by far my most polished piece from school and I couldn't use most of what I wrote at the USAO because I would have had to redact everything. Brief/motion is preferable to virtually everything else.

[Anonymous User]

BrooklynDS accepted an EJW interview request this morning. Anyone else see any movement?

[spleenworship]

Just got rejected for EJW interviews with Bronx and Brooklyn.

ETA: 7 more interview requests outstanding. Let's hope I don't get slaughtered like last year's crew. Congrats to the anon who got the Brooklyn interview.

[Anonymous User]

BrooklynDS accepted an EJW interview request this morning. Anyone else see any movement?

were you able to accept under the task list and schedule a time slot?