How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner? Forum

[lmr]

I believe these are all pre-bar hiring offices (although some hire just for 'post-bar' law clerk positions). Please add any offices I've missed.

PUBLIC DEFENSE
Unsure:

• Brooklyn

No transcript:

• Bronx
  Colorado
  Mecklenberg Co (NC)
  Miami
  New Jersey
  Palm Beach
  Philly
  San Diego Fed

Requires transcript:

• Alameda Co
  CPCS
  Contra Costa Co
  Legal Aid Society
  New Hampshire
  Prettyman Fellowship
  PDS
  San Diego Co

PROSECUTION
Unsure:

• Brooklyn
  San Francisco
  Suffolk Co (MA)

Requires transcript:

• Bronx
  Cook Co
  Manhattan
  Miami
  Philly
  Queens

This is super helpful--thanks! It made my day to see that Philly and NJ PD don't ask for transcripts.

Philly's website says you need to upload transcript and NJ PD doesn't hire pre-bar (according to Rutger's hdbk). NJ's website directs you to HR manager. Am I missing something w regards to NJ?

[Anonymous User]

I believe these are all pre-bar hiring offices (although some hire just for 'post-bar' law clerk positions). Please add any offices I've missed.

PUBLIC DEFENSE
Unsure:

• Brooklyn

No transcript:

• Bronx
  Colorado
  Mecklenberg Co (NC)
  Miami
  New Jersey
  Palm Beach
  Philly
  San Diego Fed

Requires transcript:

• Alameda Co
  CPCS
  Contra Costa Co
  Legal Aid Society
  New Hampshire
  Prettyman Fellowship
  PDS
  San Diego Co

PROSECUTION
Unsure:

• Brooklyn
  San Francisco
  Suffolk Co (MA)

Requires transcript:

• Bronx
  Cook Co
  Manhattan
  Miami
  Philly
  Queens

This is super helpful--thanks! It made my day to see that Philly and NJ PD don't ask for transcripts.

Philly's website says you need to upload transcript and NJ PD doesn't hire pre-bar (according to Rutger's hdbk). NJ's website directs you to HR manager. Am I missing something w regards to NJ?

Re: Philly PD, the public defender app does asks for transcripts, but the child advocacy unit att'y position does not, oddly: http://www.philadefender.org/attorney-c ... -apply.php

[Anonymous User]

I believe these are all pre-bar hiring offices (although some hire just for 'post-bar' law clerk positions). Please add any offices I've missed.

PUBLIC DEFENSE
Unsure:

• Brooklyn

No transcript:

• Bronx
  Colorado
  Mecklenberg Co (NC)
  Miami
  New Jersey
  Palm Beach
  Philly
  San Diego Fed

Requires transcript:

• Alameda Co
  CPCS
  Contra Costa Co
  Legal Aid Society
  New Hampshire
  Prettyman Fellowship
  PDS
  San Diego Co

PROSECUTION
Unsure:

• Brooklyn
  San Francisco
  Suffolk Co (MA)

Requires transcript:

• Bronx
  Cook Co
  Manhattan
  Miami
  Philly
  Queens

This is super helpful--thanks! It made my day to see that Philly and NJ PD don't ask for transcripts.

Philly's website says you need to upload transcript and NJ PD doesn't hire pre-bar (according to Rutger's hdbk). NJ's website directs you to HR manager. Am I missing something w regards to NJ?

Your NJ assessment sounds right to me. I had a screener during 3L fall and then was "invited to apply" to their post-graduation unpaid internship program and told I could apply for a full time position after bar results come out. That said, some on this board have reported pre-graduation offers from NJ, so maybe I was softly rejected.

[Anonymous User]

I have literally never been asked for a transcript by any public defender office I have interviewed for.

How typical is this of other people's experiences? Is this true only of PDs in flyover states? I'd imagine the big-city PDs (i.e. PDS, Bronx Defenders, etc.) would care a great deal about grades.

I'm T30'er with shit grades, no debt and demonstrated commitment to serving the indigent.

I worked at Brooklyn 2L summer and they did not ask for a transcript and never brought it up. on bronx's website they only ask for a cover letter and resume.

[Tanicius]

Have at various points done interviews for most of the Bay Area PD offices and have never been asked for a transcript. Same with Bronx and Brooklyn. LAS does want one, as advertised on their website.

[adonai]

Either way, isn't the DA/PD office eventually going to see your transcript? I mean, don't they need to confirm you went to and graduated a law school before they extend you an offer? Plus, I'm sure they're interested as to what classes you took. It seems like it is inevitable they will see your transcript and they will see your grades whether that factors into their equation of giving you an offer or not.

[Anonymous User]

Either way, isn't the DA/PD office eventually going to see your transcript? I mean, don't they need to confirm you went to and graduated a law school before they extend you an offer? Plus, I'm sure they're interested as to what classes you took. It seems like it is inevitable they will see your transcript and they will see your grades whether that factors into their equation of giving you an offer or not.

Not necessarily. I have friends who work for Colorado PD who got their offers without submitting a transcript. (I'm not sure they ever do actually ask for your transcript - the big thing is whether you pass the bar or not, and if you pass the bar, you have to have graduated from law school.)

[lmr]

This is super helpful--thanks! It made my day to see that Philly and NJ PD don't ask for transcripts.[/quote]

Philly's website says you need to upload transcript and NJ PD doesn't hire pre-bar (according to Rutger's hdbk). NJ's website directs you to HR manager. Am I missing something w regards to NJ?[/quote]

Your NJ assessment sounds right to me. I had a screener during 3L fall and then was "invited to apply" to their post-graduation unpaid internship program and told I could apply for a full time position after bar results come out. That said, some on this board have reported pre-graduation offers from NJ, so maybe I was softly rejected.[/quote]

So how do you get that initial screener interview if they don't visit your school? Just apply through the website? I don't even see their post-graduation unpaid internship program online...

[Void]

Either way, isn't the DA/PD office eventually going to see your transcript? I mean, don't they need to confirm you went to and graduated a law school before they extend you an offer? Plus, I'm sure they're interested as to what classes you took. It seems like it is inevitable they will see your transcript and they will see your grades whether that factors into their equation of giving you an offer or not.

I accepted a full time post-grad/pre-bar PD offer with an office that has not ever seen my transcript.

[Anonymous User]

So how do you get that initial screener interview if they don't visit your school? Just apply through the website? I don't even see their post-graduation unpaid internship program online...

Applied and selected for interview (not a table visit) at NYU public interest fair. (Not an NYU student). Last I checked there was no real internship "program," but there was some brief mention of internships somewhere on their website.

[Anonymous User]

I have literally never been asked for a transcript by any public defender office I have interviewed for.

How typical is this of other people's experiences? Is this true only of PDs in flyover states? I'd imagine the big-city PDs (i.e. PDS, Bronx Defenders, etc.) would care a great deal about grades.

I'm T30'er with shit grades, no debt and demonstrated commitment to serving the indigent.

Bwahaha! Bronx doesn't care two shits about grades and won't ask for your transcript. In fact most people who do ask for your transcript probably don't care about it as much as they do experience. If you have shitty grades and great experience it won't matter one bit.

[Anonymous User]

Does Contra Costa only interview former interns for their post-bar positions? Anyone know anything about Santa Clara, yet another PD office directing me to HR listings...

[Borhas]

It is said on here often that past work with victims is a huge red flag for PDs, and often merits a ding at the screener stage (esp. for folks with DA experience)

BUT, what if you're applying for a non-criminal division of a PD's office?

For instance, the Child Advocacy Unit at Defender Association of Philadelphia, Child and Family Law Unit of CPCS, and Office of the Law Guardian at NJPD represent children in civil family court proceedings.

I've never had any prosecutorial experience, but before law school I did work on a hotline for DV survivors, and last summer I interned at an immigration legal aid org with undocumented clients seeking U visas and VAWA self-petitions (not exclusively, did other stuff too, like cancellation of removal, DACA, SIJ, etc.) . Will those experiences be "bad" even if I'm applying for a civil division of a PD's office like those I mentioned above?

I wouldn't worry about it.

[BlueLotus]

It is said on here often that past work with victims is a huge red flag for PDs, and often merits a ding at the screener stage (esp. for folks with DA experience)

BUT, what if you're applying for a non-criminal division of a PD's office?

For instance, the Child Advocacy Unit at Defender Association of Philadelphia, Child and Family Law Unit of CPCS, and Office of the Law Guardian at NJPD represent children in civil family court proceedings.

I've never had any prosecutorial experience, but before law school I did work on a hotline for DV survivors, and last summer I interned at an immigration legal aid org with undocumented clients seeking U visas and VAWA self-petitions (not exclusively, did other stuff too, like cancellation of removal, DACA, SIJ, etc.) . Will those experiences be "bad" even if I'm applying for a civil division of a PD's office like those I mentioned above?

I wouldn't worry about it.

Thanks! Comforting and surprising to hear. Outright prosecutorial work (as opposed to like helping battered women with divorce/custody/support issues) is still a red flag I'd assume, even for civil legal aid.

It's interesting how much easier it is to switch from PD-->DA compared to vice versa.

Does anyone know the starting salary for Philly PD? Do they hire pre-bar?

[gdane]

What kind of "ethics" questions can I expect in my upcoming interviews with prosecutors offices? I know about Brady stuff, but what else? I've taken a bunch of crim type classes and I've never learned anything about ethics. Kinda worried ill be given a hypo and miss a huge ethics issue.

[brassmonkey7]

It is said on here often that past work with victims is a huge red flag for PDs, and often merits a ding at the screener stage (esp. for folks with DA experience)

BUT, what if you're applying for a non-criminal division of a PD's office?

For instance, the Child Advocacy Unit at Defender Association of Philadelphia, Child and Family Law Unit of CPCS, and Office of the Law Guardian at NJPD represent children in civil family court proceedings.

I've never had any prosecutorial experience, but before law school I did work on a hotline for DV survivors, and last summer I interned at an immigration legal aid org with undocumented clients seeking U visas and VAWA self-petitions (not exclusively, did other stuff too, like cancellation of removal, DACA, SIJ, etc.) . Will those experiences be "bad" even if I'm applying for a civil division of a PD's office like those I mentioned above?

I wouldn't worry about it.

Thanks! Comforting and surprising to hear. Outright prosecutorial work (as opposed to like helping battered women with divorce/custody/support issues) is still a red flag I'd assume, even for civil legal aid.

It's interesting how much easier it is to switch from PD-->DA compared to vice versa.

Does anyone know the starting salary for Philly PD? Do they hire pre-bar?

I hate to be pessimistic but I would caution that doing victim-sympathetic civil legal aid could be contentious to an abuse and neglect division of a PD office if you are representing parents and not children. I know some PD offices also encompass the minor's counsel/GAL role in an abuse and neglect cases and for those types of position, prior victim sympathetic work will probably not be an issue. But, if you're representing parents you might see some questions. After all, you could easily represent a father whose child has been taken away because he beat up the kid's mother or the child could be in protective custody because the father molested that kid- in that instance, a division of a PD office that represents parents might push you a little on how your past experience with abuse victims could impede your ability to represent a parent. Just something to keep in mind. Good luck with everything!

[deadpanic]

What kind of "ethics" questions can I expect in my upcoming interviews with prosecutors offices? I know about Brady stuff, but what else? I've taken a bunch of crim type classes and I've never learned anything about ethics. Kinda worried ill be given a hypo and miss a huge ethics issue.

Is it your first interview with the office?

Obviously this will vary by office, but you probably won't get any hypos in the first interview. I've heard for the second interview you may get a disclosure question like Brady or possibly if you & the victim have a difference in how to proceed with the case. Beyond that I am not really sure. It is talked about in this thread in earlier pages, but I couldn't say for sure where.

[gdane]

Yea I saw the dead witness question earlier in this thread (although noone gave a solid answer). All the interviews I have coming up are first interviews. I know for certain though that Miami will be asking me hypos. Not too concerned about substantive crim pro questions. But kinda concerned about ethics questions because I don't have the slightest inkling about them.

Thanks for the advice.

[A. Nony Mouse]

For ethics stuff, maybe reread the ABA rules specific to prosecutors (and take a look at the comments)?

[gdane]

For ethics stuff, maybe reread the ABA rules specific to prosecutors (and take a look at the comments)?

Will do. Thank you.

[Anonymous User]

It is said on here often that past work with victims is a huge red flag for PDs, and often merits a ding at the screener stage (esp. for folks with DA experience)

BUT, what if you're applying for a non-criminal division of a PD's office?

For instance, the Child Advocacy Unit at Defender Association of Philadelphia, Child and Family Law Unit of CPCS, and Office of the Law Guardian at NJPD represent children in civil family court proceedings.

I've never had any prosecutorial experience, but before law school I did work on a hotline for DV survivors, and last summer I interned at an immigration legal aid org with undocumented clients seeking U visas and VAWA self-petitions (not exclusively, did other stuff too, like cancellation of removal, DACA, SIJ, etc.) . Will those experiences be "bad" even if I'm applying for a civil division of a PD's office like those I mentioned above?

I don't think working a hotline for DV survivors/working on immigration law is going to hurt you that much for PD positions, especially since these will be predictable interview questions that you can prepare awesome answers for ahead of time. I used to work on a rape crisis hotline, and every PD office I interviewed for pushed me on it, and it didn't prevent me from getting the summer positions I wanted (disclaimer: I have only successfully obtained summer/semester positions at PD's offices and have not yet interviewed for post-bar positions, so take what I say with a grain of salt.) I think your experience specifically can be spun positively. A lot of criminal defendants are themselves victims of abuse at some point in their lives, and being able to approach that issue sensitively will help you a lot. Additionally, familiarity with immigration law is crazy helpful, especially given how complicated immigration law is. You will get a lot of clients who are immigrants, and understanding the intricacies of U-visas and VAWA might help you strategize. Bottom line, I don't think it will hurt you very much if you have good explanations prepared.

[spleenworship]

Anyone have any info on about how long most EJW employers take to offer you, and how long you have to decide?


I have it on good authority I'm a very good candidate at my local PDs office. But they don't interview until March and April and don't hire until June. I'd rather stay local, but even as a good candidate there are no guarantees. I'm just looking for confirmation, I guess, that if I get an EJW offer theres not going to be a realistic way to figure out if I can stay local before I accept.

[Tanicius]

Anyone have any info on about how long most EJW employers take to offer you, and how long you have to decide?


I have it on good authority I'm a very good candidate at my local PDs office. But they don't interview until March and April and don't hire until June. I'd rather stay local, but even as a good candidate there are no guarantees. I'm just looking for confirmation, I guess, that if I get an EJW offer theres not going to be a realistic way to figure out if I can stay local before I accept.

Well, we're supposed to hear back tomorrow if we got preselected for EJW interviews, right?

[BlueLotus]

^The earliest they can select ppl for interviews is tmrw, but they have until Oct. 3 to make selections (see http://www.equaljusticeworks.org/law-sc ... careerfair)

[gr8scOtt!]

^scooped!