Where can one make most money in the 3 yers after law school Forum

[darkflag]

In general, if one can get into a biglaw with an average market pay(160k in NYC, 145k in Philly, etc.), in which city (in the north east) can he/she save up the most money in 3 yrs after law school (same regular living standard)? In another thread I saw people saying 160k in NYC is just above enough to cover the expences and loan (though I doubt this a bit). If so, then why do people go to NYC? (I'm asking about saving in 3 yrs because I need to start a phd after then)

thank you!

[Knock]

In general, if one can get into a biglaw with an average market pay(160k in NYC, 145k in Philly, etc.), in which city can he/she save up the most money in 3 yrs after law school (same regular living standard)? In another thread I saw people saying 160k in NYC is just above enough to cover the expences and loan (though I doubt this a bit). If so, then why do people go to NYC?

thank you!

Texas

[darkflag]

Texas[/quote]

thanks. what about in northeast?

[Knock]

Texas

thanks. what about in northeast?[/quote]

It's more expensive. I'm looking for a cost of living comparison between major US cities that i've seen in the past, i'll post it once i've found it.

[Knock]

It's more expensive. I'm looking for a cost of living comparison between major US cities that i've seen in the past, i'll post it once i've found it.

Looks like Philadelphia.

http://www.averyindex.com/cost_of_living.php

City-------------Equivalent Salaries
NY (Manhattan)--$160,000.00
San Francisco----$134,773.78
San Jose---------$130,349.46
Los Angeles------$116,672.23 -
San Diego--------$109,051.73
NY (Queens)-----$107,129.44
DC (& No. VA)----$105,527.53
Boston-----------$104,345.17
Chicago----------$98,051.97
Philadelphia-------$91,728.25
Seattle-----------$89,996.66
Detroit-----------$81,209.06
Denver-----------$78,943.50
Phoenix-----------$74,572.59
Austin------------$74,266.73
Atlanta-----------$74,137.78
Dallas------------$73,008.82
Houston----------$68,630.27

[unc0mm0n1]

It's more expensive. I'm looking for a cost of living comparison between major US cities that i've seen in the past, i'll post it once i've found it.

Looks like Philadelphia.

http://www.averyindex.com/cost_of_living.php

City-------------Equivalent Salaries
NY (Manhattan)--$160,000.00
San Francisco----$134,773.78
San Jose---------$130,349.46
Los Angeles------$116,672.23 -
San Diego--------$109,051.73
NY (Queens)-----$107,129.44
DC (& No. VA)----$105,527.53
Boston-----------$104,345.17
Chicago----------$98,051.97
Philadelphia-------$91,728.25
Seattle-----------$89,996.66
Detroit-----------$81,209.06
Denver-----------$78,943.50
Phoenix-----------$74,572.59
Austin------------$74,266.73
Atlanta-----------$74,137.78
Dallas------------$73,008.82
Houston----------$68,630.27

I really have nothing to add besides when are you guys gonna make Knock a Mod. Give him the darn invite already. Great Job again man, per usual.

[darkflag]

Thank you!

It's more expensive. I'm looking for a cost of living comparison between major US cities that i've seen in the past, i'll post it once i've found it.

Looks like Philadelphia.

http://www.averyindex.com/cost_of_living.php

City-------------Equivalent Salaries
NY (Manhattan)--$160,000.00
San Francisco----$134,773.78
San Jose---------$130,349.46
Los Angeles------$116,672.23 -
San Diego--------$109,051.73
NY (Queens)-----$107,129.44
DC (& No. VA)----$105,527.53
Boston-----------$104,345.17
Chicago----------$98,051.97
Philadelphia-------$91,728.25
Seattle-----------$89,996.66
Detroit-----------$81,209.06
Denver-----------$78,943.50
Phoenix-----------$74,572.59
Austin------------$74,266.73
Atlanta-----------$74,137.78
Dallas------------$73,008.82
Houston----------$68,630.27

[Ty Webb]

It's more expensive. I'm looking for a cost of living comparison between major US cities that i've seen in the past, i'll post it once i've found it.

Looks like Philadelphia.

http://www.averyindex.com/cost_of_living.php

City-------------Equivalent Salaries
NY (Manhattan)--$160,000.00
San Francisco----$134,773.78
San Jose---------$130,349.46
Los Angeles------$116,672.23 -
San Diego--------$109,051.73
NY (Queens)-----$107,129.44
DC (& No. VA)----$105,527.53
Boston-----------$104,345.17
Chicago----------$98,051.97
Philadelphia-------$91,728.25
Seattle-----------$89,996.66
Detroit-----------$81,209.06
Denver-----------$78,943.50
Phoenix-----------$74,572.59
Austin------------$74,266.73
Atlanta-----------$74,137.78
Dallas------------$73,008.82
Houston----------$68,630.27

OP should be cautioned that these become wildly unreliable at higher salary levels. Having lived in both NYC and Houston, I see absolutely no way that this (the HUGE disparity) is true in reality. It becomes even less true in times like these where gas is $4/gallon and large Southern cities require you to drive everywhere.

[Wholigan]

It's more expensive. I'm looking for a cost of living comparison between major US cities that i've seen in the past, i'll post it once i've found it.

Looks like Philadelphia.

http://www.averyindex.com/cost_of_living.php

City-------------Equivalent Salaries
NY (Manhattan)--$160,000.00
San Francisco----$134,773.78
San Jose---------$130,349.46
Los Angeles------$116,672.23 -
San Diego--------$109,051.73
NY (Queens)-----$107,129.44
DC (& No. VA)----$105,527.53
Boston-----------$104,345.17
Chicago----------$98,051.97
Philadelphia-------$91,728.25
Seattle-----------$89,996.66
Detroit-----------$81,209.06
Denver-----------$78,943.50
Phoenix-----------$74,572.59
Austin------------$74,266.73
Atlanta-----------$74,137.78
Dallas------------$73,008.82
Houston----------$68,630.27

I agree that you shouldn't take these numbers as gospel for equivalent costs of living. Take for example that (according to this study) in Queens $107k is equivalent to $160k in Manhattan. First, there is the obvious point that if you are fresh out of law school and trying to live as economically as possible, you could live in Brooklyn or Queens and commute to a Manhattan job. Secondly, that is a difference of around $4400 per month. I'm sure it wouldn't really cost that much more to live in Manhattan as opposed to Queens for a recent law grad who is economically-minded.

These indexes typically factor in things like the cost of owning a vehicle (which is so prohibitive in Manhattan that you would not likely bring a vehicle into the city) and cost for housing per square foot. Housing skews the data because in Queens a lot of people might live in houses that are say 2,000 square feet, which doesn't translate well to Manhattan because the apartment sizes are smaller.

[dixiecupdrinking]

Right – cost of living calculations tend to treat NYC unfairly. While taxes + real estate prices make it pricier than most cities, some of this is made up for by the fact that your whole monthly transportation budget is maybe $150 (subway plus a few cab rides), and everything else is only marginally more expensive, if at all. That said, no question your money goes further elsewhere.

[Renzo]

Yeah, sorry. I have lived and worked in NYC as well as one of those "cheap" cities, and the difference is nowhere near correct. $75k in Phoenix might require $120-130 in Manhattan to replicate, but that's $30,000 in real money that's not being accounted for

[BruceWayne]

Yeah, sorry. I have lived and worked in NYC as well as one of those "cheap" cities, and the difference is nowhere near correct. $75k in Phoenix might require $120-130 in Manhattan to replicate, but that's $30,000 in real money that's not being accounted for

The Atlanta/Texas one's are very true. That's one of the reasons why many Blacks are reverse migrating to the South and out of NYC. A friend of mine from the Bronx was telling me that much of his family has had to leave because of all the gentrification that's making it prohibitively expensive. Many of my recent college graduate friends who've moved up from the South to NYC for jobs/the big life have been disheartened with how much they have to pay just to stay in a hole in the wall studio apartment. They're enjoying the night life etc. but they're all pretty certain that they'll move back because of the unbelievable housing costs. The crazy thing is that none of them even live in Manhattan!

1200 a month in NYC for a one bedroom is probably average at best. 1200 a month in Atlanta, Dallas, or Houston is oftentimes 800+ square feet with parking, built in plasma tv's, a fireplace, living room, and a kitchen. If the OP is really trying to make the most money these cities are definitely substantially less expensive. It doesn't matter if you factor in car ownership or not.

[CanadianWolf]

Detroit must include cost of insurance.

[Renzo]

Yeah, sorry. I have lived and worked in NYC as well as one of those "cheap" cities, and the difference is nowhere near correct. $75k in Phoenix might require $120-130 in Manhattan to replicate, but that's $30,000 in real money that's not being accounted for

The Atlanta/Texas one's are very true. That's one of the reasons why many Blacks are reverse migrating to the South and out of NYC. A friend of mine from the Bronx was telling me that much of his family has had to leave because of all the gentrification that's making it prohibitively expensive. Many of my recent college graduate friends who've moved up from the South to NYC for jobs/the big life have been disheartened with how much they have to pay just to stay in a hole in the wall studio apartment. They're enjoying the night life etc. but they're all pretty certain that they'll move back because of the unbelievable housing costs. The crazy thing is that none of them even live in Manhattan!

1200 a month in NYC for a one bedroom is probably average at best. 1200 a month in Atlanta, Dallas, or Houston is oftentimes 800+ square feet with parking, built in plasma tv's, a fireplace, living room, and a kitchen. If the OP is really trying to make the most money these cities are definitely substantially less expensive. It doesn't matter if you factor in car ownership or not.

Don't lie. You've never been inside the city limits of NYC, and we all know it.

[Renzo]

Detroit must include cost of insurance.

And armed bodyguards.

[CanadianWolf]

Curious as to why Detroit is more expensive than 6 other cities on the list. Home prices in Detroit are quite low, although grocery stores are hard to find. Any ideas ?

P.S. @Renzo: And health insurance for the armed bodyguards ?

[rundoxierun]

Yeah, sorry. I have lived and worked in NYC as well as one of those "cheap" cities, and the difference is nowhere near correct. $75k in Phoenix might require $120-130 in Manhattan to replicate, but that's $30,000 in real money that's not being accounted for

The Atlanta/Texas one's are very true. That's one of the reasons why many Blacks are reverse migrating to the South and out of NYC. A friend of mine from the Bronx was telling me that much of his family has had to leave because of all the gentrification that's making it prohibitively expensive. Many of my recent college graduate friends who've moved up from the South to NYC for jobs/the big life have been disheartened with how much they have to pay just to stay in a hole in the wall studio apartment. They're enjoying the night life etc. but they're all pretty certain that they'll move back because of the unbelievable housing costs. The crazy thing is that none of them even live in Manhattan!

1200 a month in NYC for a one bedroom is probably average at best. 1200 a month in Atlanta, Dallas, or Houston is oftentimes 800+ square feet with parking, built in plasma tv's, a fireplace, living room, and a kitchen. If the OP is really trying to make the most money these cities are definitely substantially less expensive. It doesn't matter if you factor in car ownership or not.

Dont know about Dallas/Houston but COL in Atlanta is on the rise and might surprise you(a very small bit, still cheap compared to NYC). Unless you are going into the suburbs, expect a luxury 1 br in the city like one you described to cost 1600-2000+. Of course, a similar place in Manhattan would be over 3000.

[Wholigan]

The last poster's comment about the nightlife brought to mind that your own determination to pay off loans vs. individual social life should be taken into account. These cost of living calculators assume you are an average person buying a "basket" of goods and services containing a little of everything, which may include things you don't want or need. (Child care, beauty services, cultural experiences, sporting events, etc.)

If you need to have an active social life, NYC is probably not the place to work for 3 years if you want to pay off loans. On the other hand, if you are the miseriest miser and will go without a car, brown bag your lunches and generally live like a student, a low COL city is not going to be your best bet - After taxes and bare necessities you are only going to have at most around $45k left over to pay loans on a $100k salary in a low COL city. If you are really frugal you could probably carve out more to service your loans on $160k in NY.

[The Kid]

I have two questions:

1) How much is market pay for Texas?

2) Is it really possible to save up in three years for a PhD?

[Big Shrimpin]

If you need to have an active social life, NYC is probably not the place to work for 3 years if you want to pay off loans.

How "active" are we talking here?

On the other hand, if you are the miseriest miser and will go without a car, brown bag your lunches and generally live like a student, a low COL city is not going to be your best bet...

How "miser" are we talking here?

After taxes and bare necessities you are only going to have at most around $45k left over to pay loans on a $100k salary in a low COL city. If you are really frugal you could probably carve out more to service your loans on $160k in NY.

THIS is what I like to hear, as I may be headed to NYC after graduation. I feel like I could live pretty frugally, but I do like to go out once or twice a week.

[Wholigan]

I think you could have a modest social life and still service your loans if you are determined about it. You just have to be careful. It's pretty easy to spend $100-$150 on a night out in NY without splurging and only paying for yourself - between cab rides, a few drinks, covers and a bite to eat. Do that twice a week and that could eat up $15k a year you're not paying against your loans, not counting anything special. I think you could cut that down if you're content to do maybe one or two happy hours/week (if you ever get out of work in time) and a modest night out on the weekend. (Maybe pregame before?) It can be tough though, if your friends you are going out with have their paychecks burning a hole in their pockets and aren't as determined to keep costs down.

[Big Shrimpin]

It's pretty easy to spend $100-$150 on a night out in NY without splurging and only paying for yourself - between cab rides, a few drinks, covers and a bite to eat. Do that twice a week and that could eat up $15k a year you're not paying against your loans, not counting anything special.

Figured as much. Oh well, here's to paying off my loans by the time I can qualify for AARP.

[Patriot1208]

It's pretty easy to spend $100-$150 on a night out in NY without splurging and only paying for yourself - between cab rides, a few drinks, covers and a bite to eat. Do that twice a week and that could eat up $15k a year you're not paying against your loans, not counting anything special.

Figured as much. Oh well, here's to paying off my loans by the time I can qualify for AARP.

I haven't lived in NYC but 160k post taxes is 96k. It seems that the average one bedroom people live in and are happy with is around 2250 a month with utilities (that was what alumniguy said he was paying). That means you have 69k to go out, buy shit, eat, pay off loans, invest, etc. You can definitely put half of that 69k into loan repayments and not be pinching pennies. This doesn't even include bonuses and lockstep raises.

[Renzo]

It's pretty easy to spend $100-$150 on a night out in NY without splurging and only paying for yourself - between cab rides, a few drinks, covers and a bite to eat. Do that twice a week and that could eat up $15k a year you're not paying against your loans, not counting anything special.

Figured as much. Oh well, here's to paying off my loans by the time I can qualify for AARP.

I haven't lived in NYC but 160k post taxes is 96k. It seems that the average one bedroom people live in and are happy with is around 2250 a month with utilities (that was what alumniguy said he was paying). That means you have 69k to go out, buy shit, eat, pay off loans, invest, etc. You can definitely put half of that 69k into loan repayments and not be pinching pennies. This doesn't even include bonuses and lockstep raises.

You gotta give that 96k a haircut for state tax and NYC wage tax, but yes, it's still a big chunk of money.

[Patriot1208]

It's pretty easy to spend $100-$150 on a night out in NY without splurging and only paying for yourself - between cab rides, a few drinks, covers and a bite to eat. Do that twice a week and that could eat up $15k a year you're not paying against your loans, not counting anything special.

Figured as much. Oh well, here's to paying off my loans by the time I can qualify for AARP.

I haven't lived in NYC but 160k post taxes is 96k. It seems that the average one bedroom people live in and are happy with is around 2250 a month with utilities (that was what alumniguy said he was paying). That means you have 69k to go out, buy shit, eat, pay off loans, invest, etc. You can definitely put half of that 69k into loan repayments and not be pinching pennies. This doesn't even include bonuses and lockstep raises.

You gotta give that 96k a haircut for state tax and NYC wage tax, but yes, it's still a big chunk of money.

That 96k includes state and city tax.