Golf?! Forum

[Anonymous User]

I got the summer social calendar from my firm a few weeks ago. There is a golf outing with a bunch of attorneys, and it seems to be mandatory.

Is golf one of those things I'm supposed to suck it up and learn (at least well enough to get along) in order to function in BigLaw? How do I go on a golf outing when I don't own the stuff (clubs, spikey shoes, those little peg things)? Kind of odd, but this is the first thing about my SA that has really freaked me out. I don't play golf. I don't have any interest in learning golf.

(Anonymous so as not to be connected with my firm or lose their anonymity - not sure how many of them do mandatory golf outings.)

[Stanislaw Carter]

It doesn't really matter. Just go and have fun and don't do something inappropriate. You're not going to be dinged because you can't play golf and you're most definitely not going to get dinged because you don't own your own golf set.

My firm had a cooking class. Do I know how to cook? No. Do I have cooking utensils at home? No. Did what I ended up making taste like pure shit? Yes. Did I end up with an offer? Yes.

but this is the first thing about my SA that has really freaked me out.

If this is really something that's freaking you out, then you're just not going to last long. Grow a pair of testicles.

What's with the abundance of people who are freaking out about the most trivial stuff these days? First it's the running competition, then it was whether one can do one own's thing on July 4th, and now a dude is freaking out about how to play golf. I'm wondering if there was a moment where you missed the opportunity to get some common sense. I'm also realizing why so many associates are pushed out so early. You guys freak out about the dumbest shit. I wonder if it's a Gen-Y thing.

(I'm not saying that competition is trivial. Just saying that it's perfectly fine to do it, perfectly fine to have your own plans on July 4th, and holy crap go learn some golf what's the big deal?===>Common sense)

[stylishlaw]

It doesn't really matter. Just go and have fun and don't do something inappropriate. You're not going to be dinged because you can't play golf and you're most definitely not going to get dinged because you don't own your own golf set.

My firm had a cooking class. Do I know how to cook? No. Do I have cooking utensils at home? No. Did what I ended up making taste like pure shit? Yes. Did I end up with an offer? Yes.

but this is the first thing about my SA that has really freaked me out.

If this is really something that's freaking you out, then you're just not going to last long. Grow a pair of testicles.

What's with the abundance of people who are freaking out about the most trivial stuff these days? First it's the running competition, then it was whether one can do one own's thing on July 4th, and now a dude is freaking out about how to play golf. I'm wondering if there was a moment where you missed the opportunity to get some common sense. I'm also realizing why so many associates are pushed out so early. You guys freak out about the dumbest shit. I wonder if it's a Gen-Y thing.

(I'm not saying that competition is trivial. Just saying that it's perfectly fine to do it, perfectly fine to have your own plans on July 4th, and holy crap go learn some golf what's the big deal?===>Common sense)

Ahahaha +1 for le funnies

[eaglemuncher]

Keep an open mind, maybe you will like it. Golf is really an amazing sport. And about your question, do a little research on basic etiquette and you will be fine.

[Anonymous User]

My firm had a cooking class. Do I know how to cook? No. Do I have cooking utensils at home? No. Did what I ended up making taste like pure shit? Yes. Did I end up with an offer? Yes.

Except cooking isn't something that's inherent in a lot of firm cultures. People don't make deals over cooking class.

(I'm not saying that competition is trivial. Just saying that it's perfectly fine to do it, perfectly fine to have your own plans on July 4th, and holy crap go learn some golf what's the big deal?===>Common sense)

The big deal is exactly what you stated. Going to the competition is fine, having 4th of July plans is fine, but you suggest I learn some golf. Because simply not learning golf might not be fine. Not being part of the old-boys network might not be fine.

[albusdumbledore]

I wouldn't worry about it. You're not gonna "learn golf" by the time this rolls around. Just don't do any dumb things on the course like stepping on people's line on the green or talking while people are swinging and you'll be alright.

[Stanislaw Carter]

The big deal is exactly what you stated. Going to the competition is fine, having 4th of July plans is fine, but you suggest I learn some golf. Because simply not learning golf might not be fine. Not being part of the old-boys network might not be fine.

Excuse me. I failed to realize you were making a broad feminist point about the establishment, etc. That certainly resonates with me and it's legitimate. But the bottom line is that:

a) You knew this going in.
b) There's nothing you can do about it right now.
c) If you want to change it, your only choice is really to advance to partner at your firm and make that change.
d) You're getting paid $3,100 a week to be wined and dine and play golf.

Because of all of these, I have zero sympathy for your plight. You can't have it both ways. If you really take issue, quit the job.

[vamedic03]

My firm had a cooking class. Do I know how to cook? No. Do I have cooking utensils at home? No. Did what I ended up making taste like pure shit? Yes. Did I end up with an offer? Yes.

Except cooking isn't something that's inherent in a lot of firm cultures. People don't make deals over cooking class.

(I'm not saying that competition is trivial. Just saying that it's perfectly fine to do it, perfectly fine to have your own plans on July 4th, and holy crap go learn some golf what's the big deal?===>Common sense)

The big deal is exactly what you stated. Going to the competition is fine, having 4th of July plans is fine, but you suggest I learn some golf. Because simply not learning golf might not be fine. Not being part of the old-boys network might not be fine.

Golf is being offered here for your entertainment. The firm cares about: (a) your work product and (b) your potential for billing hours. Satisfy (a) and (b), and the firm could care less what you do on the golf course (assuming you don't get drunk, etc.). Go out there and have a fun time.

[Stanislaw Carter]

Golf is being offered here for your entertainment. The firm cares about: (a) your work product and (b) your potential for billing hours. Satisfy (a) and (b), and the firm could care less what you do on the golf course (assuming you don't get drunk, etc.). Go out there and have a fun time.

This too.

What'll probably end up happening is that two groups will form. One group will be the golf players. They will begin playing golf and end the event playing golf. The other group will be the "golf is cool but that's not my thing." The OP won't be the only one in it. That group will begin playing golf, hitting a few balls and laughing at how bad everyone in the group is. All in good humor. That group will end the event chatting and probably drinking.

[Anonymous User]

Golf is being offered here for your entertainment. The firm cares about: (a) your work product and (b) your potential for billing hours. Satisfy (a) and (b), and the firm could care less what you do on the golf course (assuming you don't get drunk, etc.). Go out there and have a fun time.

This too.

What'll probably end up happening is that two groups will form. One group will be the golf players. They will begin playing golf and end the event playing golf. The other group will be the "golf is cool but that's not my thing." The OP won't be the only one in it. That group will begin playing golf, hitting a few balls and laughing at how bad everyone in the group is. All in good humor. That group will end the event chatting and probably drinking.

Okay, yeah. That sounds good. I can do that.

I seriously couldn't get out of my head the image of a bunch of summer associates and attorneys turning up with their clubs and their spikey shoes and me being the only one with no idea of what's going on. But you are probably right, and I will probably not be the only one who didn't grow up playing golf.

[skw]

I have been in a similar situation in another industry with regard to a mandatory golf outing. First of all stop worrying about it. They put it on the agenda so you can have some fun. It is not scheduled so they can critique you or ding you for your lack of golf skills. As to what you should wear, you don't need to buy golf shoes. If you don't play, tennis shoes (ideally nice and clean ones) are fine. My husband is a scrat h golfer and has forgotten his golf shoes on multiple occasions. I've seen him shoot even par in tennis shoes. It is not a big deal. You will probably be going to a nice golf club. You need to wear a collared polo shirt and tuck it in. Shorts are generally acceptable, but if in doubt call the pro shop where you will be playing and ask. If you have never held a club you might consider going to a second hand sporting goods shop like Play It Again Sports and buy 1 used club (9 iron is ideal). Go to a driving range and practice a little bit. The idea is that you manage to make contact with the ball. It is possible to miss the ball entirely and while no one else would care this might embarrass you. It is not possible to 'learn golf' in a couple of months so don't try. These events are usually set up as teams where they'll ask you your handicap and pair you with a team where at least one person can actually play. Most of your shots won't 'count' toward the team score. What they probably want to know is: 1) Can you play? If yes, good to know. If no, no biggie but they won't embarrass themselves or you by inviting you to play with a client at some point. 2) if you can't play, can you be a good sport and have fun? 3) do you act like a fool and get drunk over the round? Talk loudly? Generally ignore golf etiquette?

Just go out there, do your best, and have a good attitude. Expect to suck at golf, but be positive and fun to be around (without overdoing the alcohol consumption) and you will be fine.

[nygrrrl]

A golf outing sounds like fun, to me - and no, I don't really golf.
OP, the above advice is great - if you're really freaked, go to a local
driving range, get a bucket of balls and practice hitting them. Then go
to the outing expecting to have fun, not to play golf. kwim?
I'm sure there will be plenty of other people there who are in the same
boat - you'll bond!

[random5483]

Golf is not a fun sport but it can be a fun social event. The sport allows you to talk a lot unlike say football or Basketball where the talking is very limited. I don't particularly like golf as a sport but I can see why it could make an enjoyable social activity.

Anyways, don't freak out about it. Most golf courses allow you to rent clubs/etc. If you really want to, take a class or two. Even if you don't you are unlikely to get dinged for being new to golf.

[prezidentv8]

Golf is fun. Even if you're completely terrible, it's basically taking a nice walk and whacking a ball with a club along the way, possibly accompanied by some beers.

Go have fun.

[Big Shrimpin]

The big deal is exactly what you stated. Going to the competition is fine, having 4th of July plans is fine, but you suggest I learn some golf. Because simply not learning golf might not be fine. Not being part of the old-boys network might not be fine.

Excuse me. I failed to realize you were making a broad feminist point about the establishment, etc. That certainly resonates with me and it's legitimate. But the bottom line is that:

a) You knew this going in.
b) There's nothing you can do about it right now.
c) If you want to change it, your only choice is really to advance to partner at your firm and make that change.
d) You're getting paid $3,100 a week to be wined and dine and play golf.

Because of all of these, I have zero sympathy for your plight. You can't have it both ways. If you really take issue, quit the job.

tyft

[Cade McNown]

I was an All-American golfer in college.

If you have never played golf before, please do yourself a favor and do not participate in this event. Your inexperience will show, and it will be embarrassing to you and the attorneys/partners in your firm. As soon as you say "spikey shoes" instead of spikes and "little peggy things" instead of tees, you will have tipped everyone off that you have no clue where you are or what you're doing. This, of course, reflects poorly on you. Golf involves a slew of physical and social abilities that take years to develop and that you will be completely unconscious of. As someone who has played golf for 17 years, I can't tell you how frustrating it is to have unlearned beginners tag along. Despite good intentions, you will get in the way. Golf rounds usually consume 4 1/2 hours (closer to 5 1/2 playing with obnoxious peacocking lawyers probably), and to a seasoned golfer you will probably make a rookie mistake every 1-2 minutes. Yes the golf outing will be about networking and 'fun', but there is an underlying assumption that you're overlooking. That assumption is that you actually play golf.

The barrier of entry to golf is high, higher than every other sport, and I'm the first to admit this is unfair. One big caveat you can take solace in is that, even if they've played golf before, many of the attorneys in your firm will be equally clueless on a golf course as you. They will be loud, their cell phones will ring, they will interfere with other golfers at the course not a part of your outing, they will be hackers (hacker = terribly unskilled golfers that may not belong on a golf course), and they will break the 34 rules of golf, and they will neglect hundreds of rules of etiquette without the slightest clue. Main Point: Let others make these mistakes, do not make them yourself.

Presumably this is not just a golf outing. For one, golf is typically not a women's sport (unless your firm is largely South Korean), and so there's probably some alternate activity you can choose besides golf (spa day maybe... ). If this is the case, kindly explain that you have never set foot on a golf course, and while you'd like to join it's better for everyone if you choose the alternate activity. This will show tact on your part, and the real golfers of the bunch (i.e. the Partners who have played golf forever) will notice and appreciate you for this.

Conversely, if there is no alternate activity, go to the golf course but do not play. Rent a golf cart and caddie for someone who is playing. This will give you an opportunity to learn a bit about golf through observation and question/answer. Furthermore you can enjoy the 'walk/ride in a park' and schmooze with the attorneys in your foursome. If you go this route, you will still inevitably violate some rules of etiquette, but not nearly as many as you would if you play. Also, if you decide to go to the course, please PM me and I will be happy to give you a rough template to follow for the day (what to wear, when to show up, what to do before the round starts, how to act on the course, the biggest rules to be aware of, what questions to ask...etc.)

I hope this hasn't been too negative, but I think the advice others have given you here is very poor. The golf course is a unique place that requires special attention. If it were just a walk in the park, you would go to a park. If it were really just for fun, you would do something more fun (golf is too frustrating to be truly fun, even for those who love challenges). Golf, even in a corporate setting, is highly complex, and as you approach it you must apprehend this fact. Best of luck.

[DoubleChecks]

I got the summer social calendar from my firm a few weeks ago. There is a golf outing with a bunch of attorneys, and it seems to be mandatory.

Is golf one of those things I'm supposed to suck it up and learn (at least well enough to get along) in order to function in BigLaw? How do I go on a golf outing when I don't own the stuff (clubs, spikey shoes, those little peg things)? Kind of odd, but this is the first thing about my SA that has really freaked me out. I don't play golf. I don't have any interest in learning golf.

(Anonymous so as not to be connected with my firm or lose their anonymity - not sure how many of them do mandatory golf outings.)

omg are you me? lol im going to devote the 2 weeks or so i have before my biglaw SA starts to learn golf...just enough to not embarrass myself. i hear some partners get pretty competitive...but yeah sry other posters are really credited. i plan on going out with the mentality to have some fun and enjoy the afternoon.

[Cade McNown]

I got the summer social calendar from my firm a few weeks ago. There is a golf outing with a bunch of attorneys, and it seems to be mandatory.

Is golf one of those things I'm supposed to suck it up and learn (at least well enough to get along) in order to function in BigLaw? How do I go on a golf outing when I don't own the stuff (clubs, spikey shoes, those little peg things)? Kind of odd, but this is the first thing about my SA that has really freaked me out. I don't play golf. I don't have any interest in learning golf.

(Anonymous so as not to be connected with my firm or lose their anonymity - not sure how many of them do mandatory golf outings.)

omg are you me? lol im going to devote the 2 weeks or so i have before my biglaw SA starts to learn golf...just enough to not embarrass myself. i hear some partners get pretty competitive...

not possible. Worse yet, you may not realize you're embarrassing yourself as you embarrass yourself.

[albusdumbledore]

I was an All-American golfer in college.

If you have never played golf before, please do yourself a favor and do not participate in this event. Your inexperience will show, and it will be embarrassing to you and the attorneys/partners in your firm. As soon as you say "spikey shoes" instead of spikes and "little peggy things" instead of tees, you will have tipped everyone off that you have no clue where you are or what you're doing. This, of course, reflects poorly on you. Golf involves a slew of physical and social abilities that take years to develop and that you will be completely unconscious of. As someone who has played golf for 17 years, I can't tell you how frustrating it is to have unlearned beginners tag along. Despite good intentions, you will get in the way. Golf rounds usually consume 4 1/2 hours (closer to 5 1/2 playing with obnoxious peacocking lawyers probably), and to a seasoned golfer you will probably make a rookie mistake every 1-2 minutes. Yes the golf outing will be about networking and 'fun', but there is an underlying assumption that you're overlooking. That assumption is that you actually play golf.

The barrier of entry to golf is high, higher than every other sport, and I'm the first to admit this is unfair. One big caveat you can take solace in is that, even if they've played golf before, many of the attorneys in your firm will be equally clueless on a golf course as you. They will be loud, their cell phones will ring, they will interfere with other golfers at the course not a part of your outing, they will be hackers (hacker = terribly unskilled golfers that may not belong on a golf course), and they will break the 34 rules of golf, and they will neglect hundreds of rules of etiquette without the slightest clue. Main Point: Let others make these mistakes, do not make them yourself.

Presumably this is not just a golf outing. For one, golf is typically not a women's sport (unless your firm is largely South Korean), and so there's probably some alternate activity you can choose besides golf (spa day maybe... ). If this is the case, kindly explain that you have never set foot on a golf course, and while you'd like to join it's better for everyone if you choose the alternate activity. This will show tact on your part, and the real golfers of the bunch (i.e. the Partners who have played golf forever) will notice and appreciate you for this.

Conversely, if there is no alternate activity, go to the golf course but do not play. Rent a golf cart and caddie for someone who is playing. This will give you an opportunity to learn a bit about golf through observation and question/answer. Furthermore you can enjoy the 'walk/ride in a park' and schmooze with the attorneys in your foursome. If you go this route, you will still inevitably violate some rules of etiquette, but not nearly as many as you would if you play. Also, if you decide to go to the course, please PM me and I will be happy to give you a rough template to follow for the day (what to wear, when to show up, what to do before the round starts, how to act on the course, the biggest rules to be aware of, what questions to ask...etc.)

I hope this hasn't been too negative, but I think the advice others have given you here is very poor. The golf course is a unique place that requires special attention. If it were just a walk in the park, you would go to a park. If it were really just for fun, you would do something more fun (golf is too frustrating to be truly fun, even for those who love challenges). Golf, even in a corporate setting, is highly complex, and as you approach it you must apprehend this fact. Best of luck.

GTFO. How did they let you out of the country club? Take your snobbery elsewhere. You know what the average score in golf is? 100. Most of the people he's playing with will be equally as bad as him. Also, 5 1/2 hours is a monumentally slow round. I've played many foursomes and been done in 3 1/2, without hurrying.

[DoubleChecks]

I got the summer social calendar from my firm a few weeks ago. There is a golf outing with a bunch of attorneys, and it seems to be mandatory.

Is golf one of those things I'm supposed to suck it up and learn (at least well enough to get along) in order to function in BigLaw? How do I go on a golf outing when I don't own the stuff (clubs, spikey shoes, those little peg things)? Kind of odd, but this is the first thing about my SA that has really freaked me out. I don't play golf. I don't have any interest in learning golf.

(Anonymous so as not to be connected with my firm or lose their anonymity - not sure how many of them do mandatory golf outings.)

omg are you me? lol im going to devote the 2 weeks or so i have before my biglaw SA starts to learn golf...just enough to not embarrass myself. i hear some partners get pretty competitive...

not possible. Worse yet, you may not realize you're embarrassing yourself as you embarrass yourself.

i apologize for my word usage. i meant to just actually DO it before going, so i can at least know what posture i should be striving for...and how to even connect with the ball lol.

[Stanislaw Carter]

so i can at least know what posture i should be striving for...

The only posture to strive for in biglaw is the one involving knee-pads and hoisting your butt in the air.

[UCLAtransfer]

I was an All-American golfer in college.

If you have never played golf before, please do yourself a favor and do not participate in this event. Your inexperience will show, and it will be embarrassing to you and the attorneys/partners in your firm. As soon as you say "spikey shoes" instead of spikes and "little peggy things" instead of tees, you will have tipped everyone off that you have no clue where you are or what you're doing. This, of course, reflects poorly on you. Golf involves a slew of physical and social abilities that take years to develop and that you will be completely unconscious of. As someone who has played golf for 17 years, I can't tell you how frustrating it is to have unlearned beginners tag along. Despite good intentions, you will get in the way. Golf rounds usually consume 4 1/2 hours (closer to 5 1/2 playing with obnoxious peacocking lawyers probably), and to a seasoned golfer you will probably make a rookie mistake every 1-2 minutes. Yes the golf outing will be about networking and 'fun', but there is an underlying assumption that you're overlooking. That assumption is that you actually play golf.

The barrier of entry to golf is high, higher than every other sport, and I'm the first to admit this is unfair. One big caveat you can take solace in is that, even if they've played golf before, many of the attorneys in your firm will be equally clueless on a golf course as you. They will be loud, their cell phones will ring, they will interfere with other golfers at the course not a part of your outing, they will be hackers (hacker = terribly unskilled golfers that may not belong on a golf course), and they will break the 34 rules of golf, and they will neglect hundreds of rules of etiquette without the slightest clue. Main Point: Let others make these mistakes, do not make them yourself.

Presumably this is not just a golf outing. For one, golf is typically not a women's sport (unless your firm is largely South Korean), and so there's probably some alternate activity you can choose besides golf (spa day maybe... ). If this is the case, kindly explain that you have never set foot on a golf course, and while you'd like to join it's better for everyone if you choose the alternate activity. This will show tact on your part, and the real golfers of the bunch (i.e. the Partners who have played golf forever) will notice and appreciate you for this.

Conversely, if there is no alternate activity, go to the golf course but do not play. Rent a golf cart and caddie for someone who is playing. This will give you an opportunity to learn a bit about golf through observation and question/answer. Furthermore you can enjoy the 'walk/ride in a park' and schmooze with the attorneys in your foursome. If you go this route, you will still inevitably violate some rules of etiquette, but not nearly as many as you would if you play. Also, if you decide to go to the course, please PM me and I will be happy to give you a rough template to follow for the day (what to wear, when to show up, what to do before the round starts, how to act on the course, the biggest rules to be aware of, what questions to ask...etc.)

I hope this hasn't been too negative, but I think the advice others have given you here is very poor. The golf course is a unique place that requires special attention. If it were just a walk in the park, you would go to a park. If it were really just for fun, you would do something more fun (golf is too frustrating to be truly fun, even for those who love challenges). Golf, even in a corporate setting, is highly complex, and as you approach it you must apprehend this fact. Best of luck.

Great points about golf in general, but I think your post outs you as having no idea what a SA event entails. (0L, 1L?) SA events are 0% about whatever it is you are actually doing (golf, cooking, attending sporting event, etc.), and 100% about showing your face, getting to know other attorneys, and being a team player. Can't tell how much of this (if any) is a flame, but any of your suggestions such as doing something else (spa), renting a cart and trying to caddy, etc., will be MUCH more harmful than simply being terrible at a SA golf event.

OP- read up on golf rules and etiquette, try and go hit a bucket of balls at least once or twice so you can figure out the basics of the swing, and at the event be professional, courteous, and up front about your lack of any skills, and enthusiastic in giving it a try and taking advice from others.

[Big Shrimpin]

so i can at least know what posture i should be striving for...

The only posture to strive for in biglaw is the one involving knee-pads and hoisting your butt in the air.

stanislaw is quickly becoming one of my favorite employment-forum-poaster-doods

[Cade McNown]

GTFO. How did they let you out of the country club? Take your snobbery elsewhere. You know what the average score in golf is? 100. Most of the people he's playing with will be equally as bad as him. Also, 5 1/2 hours is a monumentally slow round. I've played many foursomes and been done in 3 1/2, without hurrying.

1. I'm not a country clubber, grew up playing public courses.
2. Average score may be higher than 100 actually. Many players fail to complete holes, knock a couple of their score etc.
3. Yes 5 1/2 is monumentally slow, but is common with corporate outings.

4. Re: "Most of the people he's playing with will be equally bad". This is wrong. We are talking about a pure beginner, someone who has never touched a club before. Some one who doesn't know a putter from a wedge from a 6-iron. This sort of person has no business playing golf. You have to learn the game and practice its skills before you ever attempt to play a round. The preparation required for this would take much more time than OP has. But you're suggesting that it's ok to be unprepared so long as OP's peers are too. Again, wrong. I'm not discouraging anyone from taking up golf, but a corporate outing is a wildly inappropriate starting point.

tl;dr version - Albus, until you know what you're talking about, why don't you GTFO.

[Capitol A]

GTFO. How did they let you out of the country club? Take your snobbery elsewhere. You know what the average score in golf is? 100. Most of the people he's playing with will be equally as bad as him. Also, 5 1/2 hours is a monumentally slow round. I've played many foursomes and been done in 3 1/2, without hurrying.

1. I'm not a country clubber, grew up playing public courses.
2. Average score may be higher than 100 actually. Many players fail to complete holes, knock a couple of their score etc.
3. Yes 5 1/2 is monumentally slow, but is common with corporate outings.

4. Re: "Most of the people he's playing with will be equally bad". This is wrong. We are talking about a pure beginner, someone who has never touched a club before. Some one who doesn't know a putter from a wedge from a 6-iron. This sort of person has no business playing golf. You have to learn the game and practice its skills before you ever attempt to play a round. The preparation required for this would take much more time than OP has. But you're suggesting that it's ok to be unprepared so long as OP's peers are too. Again, wrong. I'm not discouraging anyone from taking up golf, but a corporate outing anywhere other than on the range with a pro is a wildly inappropriate starting point.

corrected.
And you're right, the fact that there will be hundreds of other people making fools of themselves does not make it okay to join in.