Loyola PLIP thread for 2011 Forum

[ehshornet]

After going back to a firm for callback interviews, do they extend offers for their summer programs by phone, email, or snail mail? I know it probably depends on the firm, but what is the norm?

[Bosque]

After going back to a firm for callback interviews, do they extend offers for their summer programs by phone, email, or snail mail? I know it probably depends on the firm, but what is the norm?

Usually the phone.

[Anonymous User]

The recruiter told me mail for dings, phone/email for offers.

I can understand why they'd rather not call for dings, but why not email instead? What's the point of snail mail?

Also: is it normal to fill out info for background checks and conflict of interest stuff during the CB? I would have thought that stuff followed the offer. That's how it worked with my last (corporate) job.

[Bosque]

The recruiter told me mail for dings, phone/email for offers.

I can understand why they'd rather not call for dings, but why not email instead? What's the point of snail mail?

Also: is it normal to fill out info for background checks and conflict of interest stuff during the CB? I would have thought that stuff followed the offer. That's how it worked with my last (corporate) job.

Nah, that's pretty normal, especially with IP where a lot of candidates worked in industry before hand. They want to make sure you are not going to be conflicted out of all the work at the firm before they hire you.

[em9aiviet]

Has anyone gotten an actual callback from Knobbe? I think I know what the "I've heard from them" means, but I would love to know if people have real callbacks.

yes

When did you get your callback? and The "I've heard from them" does that mean a ding?

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone gotten an actual callback from Knobbe? I think I know what the "I've heard from them" means, but I would love to know if people have real callbacks.

yes

When did you get your callback? and The "I've heard from them" does that mean a ding?

No, that person was me and referring to the CB. This tuesday.

[Anonymous User]

ding from Baker Botts via email

[Anonymous User]

Any word from K+E's SF office?

Maybe they're waiting to see how the San Francisco I.P. Fair goes before extending callbacks/rejections...

[Anonymous User]

Ding from Dickstein via email

[Anonymous User]

Any word from K+E's SF office?

Maybe they're waiting to see how the San Francisco I.P. Fair goes before extending callbacks/rejections...

Nothing from K+E SF or NY... weird

[Anonymous User]

Got a callback from Foley & Lardner (Mech E.)

[agm82]

Why are you engineers going to law school? Why not actually design a longer-lasting battery, or a faster computer?

As an engineer, you can transition into senior management, maybe even land an executive position someday. Then, lawyers will work for you - and you will make bank with stock options. Your odds of doing things like founding a business, leading a business, etc. are much higher from a technical background as an engineer than a lawyer. There are several engineer-> founders and engineer-> CEOs, not too many lawyer -> founders or lawyer-> CEOs

Are there like no engineering jobs?

160k cant be the answer.

The 160k you make on the big law front end comes with tons of sacrifices, including mind-numbing repetitive doc review, and low odds of ever "lasting" in a law firm. But in the engineering context, not only do you do cutting-edge work, you don't have "billables"

What're the odds of making partner? Are they higher than landing a well-paying management job after an engineering career?

[wiseowl]

Why are you engineers going to law school? Why not actually design a longer-lasting battery, or a faster computer?

As an engineer, you can transition into senior management, maybe even land an executive position someday. Then, lawyers will work for you - and you will make bank with stock options. Your odds of doing things like founding a business, leading a business, etc. are much higher from a technical background as an engineer than a lawyer. There are several engineer-> founders and engineer-> CEOs, not too many lawyer -> founders or lawyer-> CEOs

Are there like no engineering jobs?

Also, the 160k you make on the front end comes with tons of sacrifices, including mind-numbing repetitive doc review, and low odds of ever "lasting" in a law firm. But in the engineering context, not only do you do cutting-edge work, you don't have "billables"

How's this: there were 64 people in my engineering class when we graduated. Less than 10 are still engineers.

[agm82]

How's this: there were 64 people in my engineering class when we graduated. Less than 10 are still engineers.

What percentage of your law school graduating class will be in big law 3-4 years from now? I actually don't know the answer. Is it substantially higher than 10/64, or roughly 15%?

[Anonymous User]

a

[Anonymous User]

[edited by mod]

Why are you engineers going to law school? Why not actually design a longer-lasting battery, or a faster computer?

As an engineer, you can transition into senior management, maybe even land an executive position someday. Then, lawyers will work for you - and you will make bank with stock options. Your odds of doing things like founding a business, leading a business, etc. are much higher from a technical background as an engineer than a lawyer. There are several engineer-> founders and engineer-> CEOs, not too many lawyer -> founders or lawyer-> CEOs

Are there like no engineering jobs?

160k cant be the answer.

The 160k you make on the big law front end comes with tons of sacrifices, including mind-numbing repetitive doc review, and low odds of ever "lasting" in a law firm. But in the engineering context, not only do you do cutting-edge work, you don't have "billables"

What're the odds of making partner? Are they higher than landing a well-paying management job after an engineering career?

[wiseowl]

How's this: there were 64 people in my engineering class when we graduated. Less than 10 are still engineers.

What percentage of your law school graduating class will be in big law 3-4 years from now? I actually don't know the answer. Is it substantially higher than 10/64, or roughly 15%?

At my school, yes. Overall in law? Probably not.

[Anonymous User]

In general, if you are a tech person (like EE, chem E, physics, MS bio) and regardless of what law school u go to (even cooley)...on a long enough time line (like 5 years after graduation), theres a really good shot that u will end up atleast $100+

[agm82]

How's this: there were 64 people in my engineering class when we graduated. Less than 10 are still engineers.

What percentage of your law school graduating class will be in big law 3-4 years from now? I actually don't know the answer. Is it substantially higher than 10/64, or roughly 15%?

At my school, yes. Overall in law? Probably not.

This means you go to a good law school, or at least a law school which places its students well, maybe one of the "top" ones. With that logic, I'm sure more than 10/64 MIT or Stanford engineering graduates works as an engineer 3-4 years after graduation.

[Anonymous User]

[edited by mod]

How's this: there were 64 people in my engineering class when we graduated. Less than 10 are still engineers.

What percentage of your law school graduating class will be in big law 3-4 years from now? I actually don't know the answer. Is it substantially higher than 10/64, or roughly 15%?

At my school, yes. Overall in law? Probably not.

This means you go to a good law school, or at least a law school which places its students well, maybe one of the "top" ones. With that logic, I'm sure more than 10/64 MIT or Stanford engineering graduates works as an engineer 3-4 years after graduation.

[agm82]

In general, if you are a tech person (like EE, chem E, physics, MS bio) and regardless of what law school u go to (even cooley)...on a long enough time line (like 5 years after graduation), theres a really good shot that u will end up atleast $100+

I see. Do you mean, as a patent prosecutor? Are those jobs easy to get outside of the top 50 or whatever tier 1 law schools?
I mean, obviously the competition is less. But can you add any numbers to what you mean by "really good shot"? What about law grades? Do patent prosecution firms at PLIP care about that?

A giant number of engineering graduates are unemployed (much like law graduates). If it was as sure of a bet as you make it sound, I'm pretty sure they would've figured out this hack by now.

[wiseowl]

If you want to make a thread to query/troll engineers, do it. This thread has a specific purpose, and this debate isn't it.

[agm82]

If you want to make a thread to query/troll engineers, do it. This thread has a specific purpose, and this debate isn't it.

got it.

[Anonymous User]

Okay, its me again. Heres what i mean ...
you see, only among the fancy law firms and federal courts do people care about what school you go to... Outside of that, noone really cares as to what T50 is or T14 or T100 etc etc ...

So, for example, take an instance where some kid with MS bio goes to cooley... and lets say for the sake or argument that he has no job upon graduation. Well, at this point the kid has no choice but to work at the patent office (they are always hiring...always. Just like them low prices at walmart, ALWAYS!!!)

About 4 years at the patent office, BOOM! He hit his target of a 100+ salary because a lot of law firms will overlook that.

Lets take another instance same kid decides to work for a biotech or pharma company. Now at this point, even though he may start off as "merely" an engineer at the company, he can very easily impress his boss because he can say the following, "We wont give those dirty rotten law firms any more money!! I can get patents for you. I have already passed the patent bar exam."
Now I know you are prolly saying that just passing the patent bar exam doesnt make you informed enough to start prosecuting patents. I agree!!!

But the world doesnt know that. You and I know that because we shoot for nice high quality patents.
Anyway, he ends up impressing his boss, and then boss tells him to go into management positions and BOOM!! Hes hit his target. Also, a side note, while he was working for an engineer, he was prolly making 60s ish easily.

Lets take another instance that some kid goes to cooley, cant get into firms so he has to go back to engr. Well, if the kid works for a company, on a long enough time line (think 5 years ish), he/she can get his P.E. license. Now, because he has worked with the company, developed contacts, he can start off his own consulting firm. At this point, you have this kid who has some business because he did make contacts, and worked long enough for the company, he has his PE license, and to top it all off, the kid can easily protect his own IP on his designs on the consulting work. Now, BOOM!! hes hit his target. Side note: the amt he/she will be making for this lil game might very well be close to 500K+. Remember man: he has no legal or contractual overhead. He can take care of his own stuff. Mabye, hiring secretary will be useful... and part time accountant ...

So you see, possibilities are endless

In general, if you are a tech person (like EE, chem E, physics, MS bio) and regardless of what law school u go to (even cooley)...on a long enough time line (like 5 years after graduation), theres a really good shot that u will end up atleast $100+

I see. Do you mean, as a patent prosecutor? Are those jobs easy to get outside of the top 50 or whatever tier 1 law schools?
I mean, obviously the competition is less. But can you add any numbers to what you mean by "really good shot"

[Anonymous User]

+1