Do you think the legal market will improve in the next 5 yea Forum

[Anonymous User]

Or do you think that things will stay like this for much longer?

Also, wasn't the legal market floundering even before the Great Recession. I heard stories of massive lawyer layoffs in the 2005 and 2006.

[Anonymous User]

The market does seem to be correcting itself. Outstanding individuals seem to be getting outstanding jobs, while average individuals end up with average positions. The biggest concern is probably individuals toward the bottom of their classes at good schools. Many seem to be struggling to find work, although they probably have adequate skills to succeed in the legal field. The next round of OCI should be a decent tell of the direction of the market, but as of now it's somewhere between stagnant and rebounding.

[Voyager]

No question things are turning around big time. The legal world is just slower to right itself than the business world.

Our clients (at consulting firm) have begun looking for ways to grow. Things are looking up.

[Anonymous User]

What makes me nervous is that law firms are outsourcing work to India. Does anyone feel threatened by that?

[Voyager]

What makes me nervous is that law firms are outsourcing work to India. Does anyone feel threatened by that?

You all should feel threatened by that. Big time.

[dood]

What makes me nervous is that law firms are outsourcing work to India. Does anyone feel threatened by that?

You all should feel threatened by that. Big time.

tbf, there are reports of XYZ firm being sued by a former client b/c some asshole in india missed an important doc in during the 80,000 hours of mindless doc review they did for XYZ firm.

[Voyager]

What makes me nervous is that law firms are outsourcing work to India. Does anyone feel threatened by that?

You all should feel threatened by that. Big time.

tbf, there are reports of XYZ firm being sued by a former client b/c some asshole in india missed an important doc in during the 80,000 hours of mindless doc review they did for XYZ firm.

heh, and to be even MORE fair, there are many law suits involving American firms due to similar problems.

You think American lawyers are somehow better trained at sitting through countless hours of mindless doc review? Which class is that at law school?

[Jessep]

The fears of outsourcing to India are overstated. Contract attorneys should be fearful, but not associates so much. Law firms are outsourcing doc review (menial, mind-numbing, simple). The educational level and capabilities of lawyers in India pales in comparison to the US. It makes sense to outsource this type of simple work. Sure, junior associates tend to do this type of mind-numbing work, but if firms (and clients) want capable mid-level associates then they will need to cultivate junior associates. The work will just be different. Firms and clients need to cultivate junior associates and mid-level associates because their billing rates are lower. Clients do not want to pay partner level billing rates for work that a mid-level associate or junior associate can do.

In almost every recession, fears of outsourcing and free-trade tend to rise. If you look at past trends, outsourced jobs generally have been jobs that do not require high levels of education. Additionally, the fears were overstated...just like the fear in the 80's and 90's that Japan was going to buy up the entire US, or the fears of China right now.

[Voyager]

The fears of outsourcing to India are overstated. Contract attorneys should be fearful, but not associates so much. Law firms are outsourcing doc review (menial, mind-numbing, simple). The educational level and capabilities of lawyers in India pales in comparison to the US. It makes sense to outsource this type of simple work. Sure, junior associates tend to do this type of mind-numbing work, but if firms (and clients) want capable mid-level associates then they will need to cultivate junior associates. The work will just be different. Firms and clients need to cultivate junior associates and mid-level associates because their billing rates are lower. Clients do not want to pay partner level billing rates for work that a mid-level associate or junior associate can do.

In almost every recession, fears of outsourcing and free-trade tend to rise. If you look at past trends, outsourced jobs generally have been jobs that do not require high levels of education. Additionally, the fears were overstated...just like the fear in the 80's and 90's that Japan was going to buy up the entire US, or the fears of China right now.

oh, to clarify: yeah, I agree, the initial problem will be with contract attorneys.

Problem is, though, with the legal market performing as it is, many of you will end up begging for contract positions.

[Anonymous User]

Just because some firms are outsourcing the legal work, that doesn't mean that clients are finding that acceptable or all firms find that solution to be satisfactory.

[Voyager]

Just because some firms are outsourcing the legal work, that doesn't mean that clients are finding that acceptable or all firms find that solution to be satisfactory.

point?

certainly there has been an upward trend in outsourcing and a similar trend in clients demanding the same work for less money.

[Anonymous User]

certainly there has been an upward trend in outsourcing and a similar trend in clients demanding the same work for less money.

Yes, and it'll hurt those looking at firms that just need hundreds of associates for basic discovery. A lot of corporate firms don't really work that way.

[Pragmatic Gun]

Outsourcing could be great if taken advantage of. With the menial tasks outsourced to India, law firms could use their associates for more complex tasks. I just wonder what that would look like. The legal profession isn't really known for its innovation or change.

user has been outed and warned for anon abuse and posting as a 0L in the employment forum and necroing, oh my

[84651846190]

No question things are turning around big time. The legal world is just slower to right itself than the business world.

Our clients (at consulting firm) have begun looking for ways to grow. Things are looking up.

This was posted in early 2011. I wonder if this guy still thinks the same?

[Anonymous User]

No question things are turning around big time. The legal world is just slower to right itself than the business world.

Our clients (at consulting firm) have begun looking for ways to grow. Things are looking up.

This was posted in early 2011. I wonder if this guy still thinks the same?

I would love to hear his opinion, or anyone else's.

[Abbie Doobie]

.

[Anonymous User]

No question things are turning around big time. The legal world is just slower to right itself than the business world.

Our clients (at consulting firm) have begun looking for ways to grow. Things are looking up.

This was posted in early 2011. I wonder if this guy still thinks the same?

I would love to hear his opinion, or anyone else's.

I was a 2011 grad, and I think things are way better now. I summered in 2010, and all summer the firm made it clear that there was a good chance they couldn't bring us on right away (thankfully, I got an offer, bu tthe firm ratcheted up their standards signficiantly, and very good summers were not offered). There were tons of stealth layoffs at my v50 in 2010 and 2011. Now, we're always looking for more bodies and headhunters and other firms call all the time to offer jobs. It's not 2006, and hopefully things continue to improve to justify another raise in lockstep salary, but it's better than 2011. Does anyone disagree?

[84651846190]

I agree that things are better, but they're nowhere near where they were before the recession (and I don't think they ever will be). Then again, I don't know why anyone would expect things to go back to the way they were before the recession. That shit was nuts. Bottom-of-the-class people were getting V100 jobs with 20k first-year bonuses.

[09042014]

No question things are turning around big time. The legal world is just slower to right itself than the business world.

Our clients (at consulting firm) have begun looking for ways to grow. Things are looking up.

This was posted in early 2011. I wonder if this guy still thinks the same?

I would love to hear his opinion, or anyone else's.

The markets back to a new normal. Not good, but it's not shakey.

But predictive coding and india really did reduce the need for lit junior associates. Clients only pay for associates doc review for small projects, bet the company lit, or all hands on deck shit.

[NYSprague]

Or do you think that things will stay like this for much longer?

Also, wasn't the legal market floundering even before the Great Recession. I heard stories of massive lawyer layoffs in the 2005 and 2006.

This is news to me.
Assume this is the best the market will be and decide accordingly. My firm worldwide is hiring fewer summer's than just in the NYC office pre_crash. If things get better, it will be a pleasant surprise but don't count on it.

[hous]

Outsourcing could be great if taken advantage of. With the menial tasks outsourced to India, law firms could use their associates for more complex tasks. I just wonder what that would look like. The legal profession isn't really known for its innovation or change.

user has been outed and warned for anon abuse and posting as a 0L in the employment forum and necroing, oh my

nony mouse strikes again. No fun to see here folks.

Legal market won't "correct itself" because there are simply too many law schools pumping recent graduates out. You just have to get that first job and get some experience.

[IAFG]

Outstanding individuals seem to be getting outstanding jobs, while average individuals end up with average positions.

Wow I am so glad this thread was bumped so I could enjoy this prestigious commentary.

[patogordo]

Outstanding individuals seem to be getting outstanding jobs, while average individuals end up with average positions.

Wow I am so glad this thread was bumped so I could enjoy this prestigious commentary.

odds that anon is an hlser?

[IAFG]

Outstanding individuals seem to be getting outstanding jobs, while average individuals end up with average positions.

Wow I am so glad this thread was bumped so I could enjoy this prestigious commentary.

odds that anon is an hlser?

I'd rather bet on how desperate anon is to leave his prestigious sweatshop.