Median, URM, T14 Forum

[Anonymous User]

So I just got off the phone with a cousin of mine who is also in law school, and she is basically a wreck. I think she is being completely unreasonable, but even though I think she is in a great position, I don't really know given that my school doesn't really have grades.

Anyway, she's a URM, at a lower t14 (read:Cornell) and is just barely above median as far as she knows. She's freaking out thinking that she has to go nuts next semester just to even have a shot at OCI. She has a pretty good scholly, but is likely still gonna be 100k in the hole when its all over. I basically told her as long as she can maintain her grades, or even slightly improve her grades she has a great shot at OCI. Did I give her bad advice?

[MrAnon]

You sure did. Students from Cornell sitting at the median don't have any shot at BIGLAW. If she lowers her expectations a little bit she could have a nice career in law though. She might catch on with a midsize firm or a nice government job thanks to cornell and her URM status. But oh yeah, those loans. They complicate things tremendously. She can go on government assistance (IBR) to repay the loans.

[Kohinoor]

So I just got off the phone with a cousin of mine who is also in law school, and she is basically a wreck. I think she is being completely unreasonable, but even though I think she is in a great position, I don't really know given that my school doesn't really have grades.

Anyway, she's a URM, at a lower t14 (read:Cornell) and is just barely above median as far as she knows. She's freaking out thinking that she has to go nuts next semester just to even have a shot at OCI. She has a pretty good scholly, but is likely still gonna be 100k in the hole when its all over. I basically told her as long as she can maintain her grades, or even slightly improve her grades she has a great shot at OCI. Did I give her bad advice?

She's probably fine.

[BruceWayne]

From everything I've heard she's more than fine--she's actually in a very good spot. Above median URM at a top 14 is by no means shut out of biglaw.

[MrAnon]

okay someone post a big firm bio that meets this criteria.

[let/them/eat/cake]

You sure did. Students from Cornell sitting at the median don't have any shot at BIGLAW. If she lowers her expectations a little bit she could have a nice career in law though. She might catch on with a midsize firm or a nice government job thanks to cornell and her URM status. But oh yeah, those loans. They complicate things tremendously. She can go on government assistance (IBR) to repay the loans.

the tone of this post is pretty lulzy. It's definitely not gravy at median at Cornell, but your cousin is not in nearly as bad a position as the post above would indicate. URM slightly above median is probably fine as long as she is not completely socially incompetent. And even then.

[Aqualibrium]

okay someone post a big firm bio that meets this criteria.

Haven't we had this discussion already?

[Aqualibrium]

You sure did. Students from Cornell sitting at the median don't have any shot at BIGLAW. If she lowers her expectations a little bit she could have a nice career in law though. She might catch on with a midsize firm or a nice government job thanks to cornell and her URM status. But oh yeah, those loans. They complicate things tremendously. She can go on government assistance (IBR) to repay the loans.

the tone of this post is pretty lulzy. It's definitely not gravy at median at Cornell, but your cousin is not in nearly as bad a position as the post above would indicate. URM slightly above median is probably fine as long as she is not completely socially incompetent. And even then.

THIS

[MrAnon]

you guys wont find one. I'm waiting. Its one thing to say that from all you've heard median at cornell is sitting pretty. Its another to post a specific example backing up what you talk about. Let's see evidence.

[Anonymous User]

you guys wont find one. I'm waiting. Its one thing to say that from all you've heard median at cornell is sitting pretty. Its another to post a specific example backing up what you talk about. Let's see evidence.

median at cornell ≠ median urm at cornell. hth.

[MrAnon]

*yawn*. Okay shouldn't be hard to find an example then.

There is no bump for median URM at bottom of T14. It is a myth.

[Aqualibrium]

you guys wont find one. I'm waiting. Its one thing to say that from all you've heard median at cornell is sitting pretty. Its another to post a specific example backing up what you talk about. Let's see evidence.

No one can show you specifically that a person finished at our around median. The most we can do is verify that they didn't graduate with latin honors. That said, no one has time to be scouring firm web sites to find one of the 5-10 black people that work there and see if they didn't graduate with honors. Plus most of the search functions suck ass anyway. You'll just have to take our word for it. We've been through OCI as URM's, seen people go through OCI as URM's, etc...

[Aqualibrium]

Found 1; no latin honors, all you can do is speculate after that (I know you'll point out that she's a 2000 grad though).

--LinkRemoved--

[MrAnon]

The most we can do is verify that they didn't graduate with latin honors.

I know. That's all I am looking for.

[MrAnon]

2000? This is not Back to the Future. That's a long time ago. There have been two recessions since then.

[Aqualibrium]

The only thing this search is confirming for me is that there are VERY VERY VERY few people of color working at biglaw firms...

[MrAnon]

But the majority of posters seem to think median is a shoo-in. Doesn't quite click does it.

[Aqualibrium]

2000? This is not Back to the Future. That's a long time ago. There have been two recessions since then.

LOL well I can hardly scrape two black folks together man. Plus all these sites are very poorly designed.

[Kohinoor]

On top of ITE, nobody even asked what he means by URM.

[Kohinoor]

2000? This is not Back to the Future. That's a long time ago. There have been two recessions since then.

LOL well I can hardly scrape two black folks together man. Plus all these sites are very poorly designed.

Most firm sites allow you to sort attorneys. Search by race. It's all about working smarter not harder.

[Aqualibrium]

But the majority of posters seem to think median is a shoo-in. Doesn't quite click does it.

To be fair, in our earlier discussion, I never said shoo-in. (Yes I know I wasn't explicitly included in the majority you cited)

[MrAnon]

Look I would not be surprised if someone finds an example from 2007, but ITE it does not happen and no, hiring is not going to explode so much in 8 months that it will happen this year.

[Anonymous User]

Does Cornell only have whites and asians? WTF.

[Aqualibrium]

2000? This is not Back to the Future. That's a long time ago. There have been two recessions since then.

LOL well I can hardly scrape two black folks together man. Plus all these sites are very poorly designed.

Most firm sites allow you to sort attorneys. Search by race. It's all about working smarter not harder.

LOL yeah right.

Anyway, broadened my definition of URM to include non-blacks, but not the female gender as a whole:

2007: --LinkRemoved--

2008: --LinkRemoved--

--LinkRemoved--

--LinkRemoved--

2009: --LinkRemoved--

--LinkRemoved--


and I'm done...let someone else do the work

[KMaine]

OP - Tell your friend (cousin or whatever, I don't remember) to talk to some 2Ls in BALSA, LALSA or NALSA (whichever applies). Most of the URM students I know at Cornell seem to have done pretty well. Not sure why Mr. Anon is on this particular kick, but from where I sit, things look pretty solid. I would not feel secure if I were her, but with a second semester around the same range as the first, she is likely to get a Biglaw SA.