Vacation and Weddings During Summer Associateship Forum

[matty]

So, I'm the best man in a wedding this summer that will require at least a day or two of travel. Additionally, I haven't had a real vacation in years and finally have the opportunity to take one--a seven to ten day one in Argentina. How kosher is it to ask for this much time off? Obviously I want to clear it with my firm in advance. Moreover, my number one priority is to come out of summer with an offer. If this impairs my chances in any way I don't want to risk it. I'm thinking the wedding is okay but the vacation is a no-go; I shouldn't even ask about it (...sigh). Any thoughts?

[2009 Prospective]

Take the 1 week vacation before or after the summer associate position starts dude. Definitely wouldn't ask for a week off in the middle of the program.

[matty]

yeah, that's the problem...I don't really have any flexibility with the dates. Oh well, haven't taken a vacation in 4 or 5 years, guess I can wait a couple more til my post-BAR trip.

[War Cardinal]

Wedding is OK. Vacation is a terrible idea.

[Kohinoor]

So, I'm the best man in a wedding this summer that will require at least a day or two of travel. Additionally, I haven't had a real vacation in years and finally have the opportunity to take one--a seven to ten day one in Argentina. How kosher is it to ask for this much time off? Obviously I want to clear it with my firm in advance. Moreover, my number one priority is to come out of summer with an offer. If this impairs my chances in any way I don't want to risk it. I'm thinking the wedding is okay but the vacation is a no-go; I shouldn't even ask about it (...sigh). Any thoughts?

If anybody gets no-offered it will be you. hth.

[IzziesGal]

I agree with the wedding = okay, vacation = not okay post.

The wedding is something you undoubtedly committed to a long time ago, and you're not just going as a guest - you're the best man. BUT - is it on Fri, Sat, or Sun? Is it near where your SA gig is? If it's on a Saturday, I'd give them a head's up now that you won't be able to work that Saturday, but I'd make sure you're in the office on Friday and available on Sunday, if possible. If it's a Friday wedding, then you don't really have a choice but to miss a work day. But I'd try to make up for it by saying you will be fully available all day Saturday to make up the time. Also, I'd skip any pre-wedding festivities - if there's a rehearsal dinner during the week, etc.

The vacation? Just an absolutely awful idea. Summer programs are short to begin with, and firms want to see your commitment to them and the work. If you're just doing this for the 30k during the summer and not the perm offer, then by all means - take the vacation. But nothing says "I'm not serious about this job" like taking a hiatus from an 8 or 10 week job.

[irishman86]

I wouldn't go on either tbh, because summer programs are only 9-10 weeks now.

[Anonymous User]

http://www.paulhastings.com/careers_attorneys_FAQs.aspx

[Anonymous User]

I agree with the wedding = okay, vacation = not okay post.

The wedding is something you undoubtedly committed to a long time ago, and you're not just going as a guest - you're the best man. BUT - is it on Fri, Sat, or Sun? Is it near where your SA gig is? If it's on a Saturday, I'd give them a head's up now that you won't be able to work that Saturday, but I'd make sure you're in the office on Friday and available on Sunday, if possible. If it's a Friday wedding, then you don't really have a choice but to miss a work day. But I'd try to make up for it by saying you will be fully available all day Saturday to make up the time. Also, I'd skip any pre-wedding festivities - if there's a rehearsal dinner during the week, etc.

The vacation? Just an absolutely awful idea. Summer programs are short to begin with, and firms want to see your commitment to them and the work. If you're just doing this for the 30k during the summer and not the perm offer, then by all means - take the vacation. But nothing says "I'm not serious about this job" like taking a hiatus from an 8 or 10 week job.

That seems to be kind of over the top. I don't know of many firms that actually want summer associates doing work over the weekend. I'm sure there are some that do, but from my experience last summer, they didn't even want us doing work late at the office during the week, much less the weekend. The people who had these types of conflicts at my firm last summer were fine in taking the whole weekend to partake in wedding-related festivities and not asked to work at all. In fact, some were allowed to arrange their schedule so that they were able to leave very early on Friday and still not miss any portion of their paycheck (at least those who didn't want to take any unpaid days off).

OP, if you're working on a matter that looks like it will overlap with the wedding, just tell the people with whom you're working that you have a wedding that particular weekend. It shouldn't be a huge deal. If you're working on a matter that seems that it's particularly busy or will run over the weekend, let the associates know in advance (as much notice as possible, of course). Chances are they won't care.

Unfortunately the vacation probably won't happen, but you can always take time off after the summer program ends.

[rynabrius]

If you don't want the job there are people who do.

[IzziesGal]

I agree with the wedding = okay, vacation = not okay post.

The wedding is something you undoubtedly committed to a long time ago, and you're not just going as a guest - you're the best man. BUT - is it on Fri, Sat, or Sun? Is it near where your SA gig is? If it's on a Saturday, I'd give them a head's up now that you won't be able to work that Saturday, but I'd make sure you're in the office on Friday and available on Sunday, if possible. If it's a Friday wedding, then you don't really have a choice but to miss a work day. But I'd try to make up for it by saying you will be fully available all day Saturday to make up the time. Also, I'd skip any pre-wedding festivities - if there's a rehearsal dinner during the week, etc.

The vacation? Just an absolutely awful idea. Summer programs are short to begin with, and firms want to see your commitment to them and the work. If you're just doing this for the 30k during the summer and not the perm offer, then by all means - take the vacation. But nothing says "I'm not serious about this job" like taking a hiatus from an 8 or 10 week job.

That seems to be kind of over the top. I don't know of many firms that actually want summer associates doing work over the weekend. I'm sure there are some that do, but from my experience last summer, they didn't even want us doing work late at the office during the week, much less the weekend. The people who had these types of conflicts at my firm last summer were fine in taking the whole weekend to partake in wedding-related festivities and not asked to work at all. In fact, some were allowed to arrange their schedule so that they were able to leave very early on Friday and still not miss any portion of their paycheck (at least those who didn't want to take any unpaid days off).

OP, if you're working on a matter that looks like it will overlap with the wedding, just tell the people with whom you're working that you have a wedding that particular weekend. It shouldn't be a huge deal. If you're working on a matter that seems that it's particularly busy or will run over the weekend, let the associates know in advance (as much notice as possible, of course). Chances are they won't care.

Unfortunately the vacation probably won't happen, but you can always take time off after the summer program ends.

It's not over the top everywhere - I was expected to work weekends and nights from home at my 1L summer gig. And showing enthusiasm and willingness to work around personal issues is a big plus. They'll probably tell him to go ahead and enjoy, etc. - but I think it's key for him to show that he's willing to make up the time on a different day, if need be.

[NYAssociate]

.

[IzziesGal]

It's not over the top everywhere - I was expected to work weekends and nights from home at my 1L summer gig.

At most big firms, summer associates get weird looks if they're still in the office past 7 or are there on weekends.

Hmmm... didn't realize that. Just basing my response on my 1L summer and on my pre-law school big law job. So, we shouldn't expect to be there nights and weekends all next summer? Some posters are saying things about summers having to work until 9 or 10 every night and saturdays and sundays.....

[LawSchoolWannaBe]

It's not over the top everywhere - I was expected to work weekends and nights from home at my 1L summer gig.

At most big firms, summer associates get weird looks if they're still in the office past 7 or are there on weekends.

Hmmm... didn't realize that. Just basing my response on my 1L summer and on my pre-law school big law job. So, we shouldn't expect to be there nights and weekends all next summer? Some posters are saying things about summers having to work until 9 or 10 every night and saturdays and sundays.....

I was generally told to leave once 5:30 came around.

[IzziesGal]

I was generally told to leave once 5:30 came around.

That's good news....I was worried I wouldn't have time to see any friends or family while I'm in town.

Anyone know what the protocol for the +1 for firm events is if your spouse can't come with you to your SA city?

[LawSchoolWannaBe]

At the firms I've summered at nobody ever brought anyone but a spouse/sig other. I'd probably avoid bringing anyone besides spouse/sig other.

[IzziesGal]

At the firms I've summered at nobody ever brought anyone but a spouse/sig other. I'd probably avoid bringing anyone besides spouse/sig other.

Thanks. It sucks that my hubby can't come with me to my SA gig city. But I guess on the upside I'll be more focused on networking and meeting new people at the firm, since I won't have him to cling to.

[Anonymous User]

It's not over the top everywhere - I was expected to work weekends and nights from home at my 1L summer gig.

At most big firms, summer associates get weird looks if they're still in the office past 7 or are there on weekends.

Hmmm... didn't realize that. Just basing my response on my 1L summer and on my pre-law school big law job. So, we shouldn't expect to be there nights and weekends all next summer? Some posters are saying things about summers having to work until 9 or 10 every night and saturdays and sundays.....

I'm the person who thought your comments from above were overstated. I was also a 1L SA and at my firm, there was a summer who worked on the weekend. Her associates were spoken to. I got numerous comments from associates when I was in the office at 7:30, even though I was one of those people who liked to take a liberal number of breaks throughout the day so I was just making up time. If your 1L SA firm expected people to work on the weekends or work late, then it's the exception rather than the rule. From what I've heard from many people about their firms, there was no such expectation.

[IzziesGal]

I'm the person who thought your comments from above were overstated. I was also a 1L SA and at my firm, there was a summer who worked on the weekend. Her associates were spoken to. I got numerous comments from associates when I was in the office at 7:30, even though I was one of those people who liked to take a liberal number of breaks throughout the day so I was just making up time. If your 1L SA firm expected people to work on the weekends or work late, then it's the exception rather than the rule. From what I've heard from many people about their firms, there was no such expectation.

Good to know. No, my 1L summer gig was gov't, so I figured big law would be even more insane with the hours. I also based it on past biglaw pre-law experience, where nights and weekends were the norm.

Congrats on a 1L summer gig, btw - are you going back there? That's pretty impressive.

[underdawg]

i'd usually work until 7ish most days. on the first few days they'd shoo us out at 6. several SAs worked quite a few weekends, but the guy on the trial had to know what he was getting into and i don't think it'd be a big deal at all to take a day off. we were given one "vacation" day which most SA's took. if you told someone in advance, it'd be a very small deal that you couldn't do any work on a saturday (and don't sign up for a trial team if you plan to have some sort of life). nothing is so urgent for an sa that you couldn't do it on sunday (if you had to work that weekend at all). and as an SA you should have general notice so you can work more the day before if you have some "important" assignment.

but yeah i can't imagine someone taking a week off. don't even ask. people gossip and they probably will make fun of you behind your back for even asking (pretty deservedly so IMO)

[vamedic03]

So, I'm the best man in a wedding this summer that will require at least a day or two of travel. Additionally, I haven't had a real vacation in years and finally have the opportunity to take one--a seven to ten day one in Argentina. How kosher is it to ask for this much time off? Obviously I want to clear it with my firm in advance. Moreover, my number one priority is to come out of summer with an offer. If this impairs my chances in any way I don't want to risk it. I'm thinking the wedding is okay but the vacation is a no-go; I shouldn't even ask about it (...sigh). Any thoughts?

Most summer programs are 10 weeks long, most law school summer breaks are 13-14 weeks long . . . so, why not take a vacation between the summer program and law school starting?

[ToTransferOrNot]

... did someone seriously ask whether they might be able to take a week out of a summer associate program?

... seriously?

/facepalm

[Anonymous User]

Good to know. No, my 1L summer gig was gov't, so I figured big law would be even more insane with the hours. I also based it on past biglaw pre-law experience, where nights and weekends were the norm.

Congrats on a 1L summer gig, btw - are you going back there? That's pretty impressive.

Thanks! I plan to summer at another firm this year and just return to my 1L firm for a few weeks. It'll be a long summer but very fun!

[IzziesGal]

Just an update - according to the new 2010 Am Law survey article, nights and weekends were common for SAs this past summer. Looks like times are a-changin'. Don't know if it's true across the board.

[underdawg]

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