S&C vs. Cleary Forum

[Anonymous User]

Offers from both (NYC), but I realize they have very different reputations. Leaning towards litigation, but not 100% married to the idea. Beyond that, I'm flexible and would like to explore different practice areas (none are ruled out).

Interviews at both were decent. Neither firm had partners/associates who totally dazzled me (interestingly enough, one partner during my CB at GDC really impressed me), but neither had interviewers who really turned me off either. Thoughts?

[Anonymous User]

Offers from both (NYC), but I realize they have very different reputations. Leaning towards litigation, but not 100% married to the idea. Beyond that, I'm flexible and would like to explore different practice areas (none are ruled out).

Interviews at both were decent. Neither firm had partners/associates who totally dazzled me (interestingly enough, one partner during my CB at GDC really impressed me), but neither had interviewers who really turned me off either. Thoughts?

I think this is tough. I think Cleary is more humane and a more pleasant place to work, so I would pick them based on atmosphere. But S&C has a "better" litigation department. I think it depends on what sort of stuff you're interested in within litigation (if you know). If it's international lit or arbitration, I think Cleary's a no brainer. If it's white collar, that weighs more heavily in my mind in favor of S&C.

Just out of curiosity, are you considering GDC? They're not as "overall prestigious" as the other two, but their lit department is hard to beat, even in NY.

If I had to pick, I would say Cleary. Better work environment, and while it may not be quite as strong for lit as S&C, the difference is marginal.

Edit: Oh, and congrats.

[dbt]

Cleary. The prestige bump, if it exists, is minimal, and Cleary is right up there with DPW/Debevoise as far as more humane NYC firms go.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. Arbitration seems interesting to me, though I think I would realistically go with white-collar instead.

One of my possible goals is to become an AUSA. Any thoughts on which firm (if either) would be better for that sort of career path?

[Anonymous User]

OP, did you talk to Victor Hou? If not, ask if you can talk to him. He's a newly minted partner at Cleary and used to work as an AUSA. I worked on one of his cases when he was a senior associate and I was a paralegal and I thought he was also a funny, candid person.

[legends159]

what does everyone mean when they say humane?

As far as I know, S&C/DPW/Cleary all work about the same hours.

[Anonymous User]

what does everyone mean when they say humane?

As far as I know, S&C/DPW/Cleary all work about the same hours.

Well, I have heard S&C is slightly more. I have never worked at any of these firms, so any information I have is second-hand, but talking to people who have, S&C has a reputations for having (1) screamers, and (2) very competitive associates, (3) very aggressive associates, and (4) a very competitive work environment. Cleary and DPW do not, relatively speaking.

[Anonymous User]

what does everyone mean when they say humane?

As far as I know, S&C/DPW/Cleary all work about the same hours.

Humane = passive/aggressive. Not my cup of tea.

[rayiner]

what does everyone mean when they say humane?

As far as I know, S&C/DPW/Cleary all work about the same hours.

Humane = passive/aggressive. Not my cup of tea.

The "I can't deal with passive aggressive people because I never know if I fucked up" refrain seems to scream "I have no emotional intelligence and can't pick up on signals."

Not saying either applies to S&C/DPW, but just that the general argument strikes me as weak sauce.

[Anonymous User]

what does everyone mean when they say humane?

As far as I know, S&C/DPW/Cleary all work about the same hours.

Humane = passive/aggressive. Not my cup of tea.

The "I can't deal with passive aggressive people because I never know if I fucked up" refrain seems to scream "I have no emotional intelligence and can't pick up on signals."

Not saying either applies to S&C/DPW, but just that the general argument strikes me as weak sauce.

It's good enough for me. I also felt no chemistry with DPW. I just prefer the no-nonsense all-business approach. I declined DPW for that reason.

But hey that's just me.