Tiny Ray of Hope Forum

[doyleoil]

Read it and weep (tears of joy):

http://amlawdaily.typepad.com/amlawdail ... r2011.html

[12262010]

woot

[OperaSoprano]

--ImageRemoved--

Now tell me it's going to trickle down to firms below the elite.

[romothesavior]

Fantastic news. Still nowhere near out of the woods yet, but these are much bigger increases than anyone on here had expected. I'll be interested to see if other biglaw firms do the same, and hopefully some of the non-giants will follow suit.

Models and bottles and NYC to 190 for c/o 2013? Pretty please?

[270910]

Exactly what I've been saying all along. I've been calling a huge increase in firms like Cravath for months now, but it's incredible and uplifting to see it "in print."

[Bildungsroman]

This makes me very happy. I hope these signs of recovery for larger firms are also representative of a recovery beginning for the legal market more generally.

IB someone comes in and sprays negativity all over this thread.

[98234872348]

Even though I am not applying to any of these firms, well, besides a resume collect to Ropes, this bodes very well for all of us.

[270910]

Also, you can call this way more than a "tiny ray of hope." Having 3 strong law firms committing to real increases in their summer class may be the best news the legal industry has seen since Simpson Thacher raised first year salary to 160*

*May not have actually been good news long term

[miamiman]

LOL @ the commenter "Overzealous1L": NY to 190?

[270910]

LOL @ the commenter "Overzealous1L": NY to 190?

190 is likely too high, but it really might go up. A lot of firms have "unfrozen" and re-lock stepped recently. Firms really do try to recruit "top" talent, and a big part of that is offering a package more attractive than the guys down the street. It's very telling that we get anouncements of salary increases right before recruiting season. At least some firms may bump above 160 next year absent another crash. And maybe not - but it's a real possibility.

[Person]

LOL @ the commenter "Overzealous1L": NY to 190?

190 is likely too high, but it really might go up. A lot of firms have "unfrozen" and re-lock stepped recently. Firms really do try to recruit "top" talent, and a big part of that is offering a package more attractive than the guys down the street. It's very telling that we get anouncements of salary increases right before recruiting season. At least some firms may bump above 160 next year absent another crash. And maybe not - but it's a real possibility.

That is a common misconception. Increases in salary at law firms is less tied to competition for new talent between elite law firms and more to competition for talent between law firms and the other professions--consulting, private equity, etc. If law firms don't pay as much as these professions, then many of the top grads will take jobs in these fields instead of law. (Unless this is what you meant by "the guys down the street" and not "the law firm down the street.")

As far as the articles is concerned, even if the increases are limited to the top firms, there will be some trickle down benefit for the rest of us. In particular, the extra people taking those elite firm jobs will not be competing for the less-elite firms this year.

[thebookcollector]

I know the number of firms recruiting at each school is down this year, but if this is the case, at least the number of people hired by each firm should increase.

This is more than a tiny ray; this is (I hope) the ray of sunshine that will thaw the hiring and salary freeze.

[miamiman]

I know the number of firms recruiting at each school is down this year, but if this is the case, at least the number of people hired by each firm should increase.

This is more than a tiny ray; this is (I hope) the ray of sunshine that will thaw the hiring and salary freeze.

Dont get ahead of yourself. It's common knowledge that the top firms have weathered this storm better than the rest. And hiring at the top no doubt helps everyone, not simply the top students at top schools. But it's very important that non-elite firms restart their programs / begin recruiting first-years in earnest.

[270910]

I know the number of firms recruiting at each school is down this year,

It's up from last year, it's down from the boom / bubble / NY TO 190 times.

[solotee]

Good piece of news to start a Friday with.

[rando]

LOL @ the commenter "Overzealous1L": NY to 190?

190 is likely too high, but it really might go up. A lot of firms have "unfrozen" and re-lock stepped recently. Firms really do try to recruit "top" talent, and a big part of that is offering a package more attractive than the guys down the street. It's very telling that we get anouncements of salary increases right before recruiting season. At least some firms may bump above 160 next year absent another crash. And maybe not - but it's a real possibility.

That is a common misconception. Increases in salary at law firms is less tied to competition for new talent between elite law firms and more to competition for talent between law firms and the other professions--consulting, private equity, etc. If law firms don't pay as much as these professions, then many of the top grads will take jobs in these fields instead of law. (Unless this is what you meant by "the guys down the street" and not "the law firm down the street.")

As far as the articles is concerned, even if the increases are limited to the top firms, there will be some trickle down benefit for the rest of us. In particular, the extra people taking those elite firm jobs will not be competing for the less-elite firms this year.

Why do you say this? Entry level bankers, accountants, consultants don't make anything close to 160. I get that professionals in those fields don't have to get another degree but I'm skeptical that the market leveled at 160 to compete against those fields.

[270910]

LOL @ the commenter "Overzealous1L": NY to 190?

190 is likely too high, but it really might go up. A lot of firms have "unfrozen" and re-lock stepped recently. Firms really do try to recruit "top" talent, and a big part of that is offering a package more attractive than the guys down the street. It's very telling that we get anouncements of salary increases right before recruiting season. At least some firms may bump above 160 next year absent another crash. And maybe not - but it's a real possibility.

That is a common misconception. Increases in salary at law firms is less tied to competition for new talent between elite law firms and more to competition for talent between law firms and the other professions--consulting, private equity, etc. If law firms don't pay as much as these professions, then many of the top grads will take jobs in these fields instead of law. (Unless this is what you meant by "the guys down the street" and not "the law firm down the street.")

As far as the articles is concerned, even if the increases are limited to the top firms, there will be some trickle down benefit for the rest of us. In particular, the extra people taking those elite firm jobs will not be competing for the less-elite firms this year.

Why do you say this? Entry level bankers, accountants, consultants don't make anything close to 160. I get that professionals in those fields don't have to get another degree but I'm skeptical that the market leveled at 160 to compete against those fields.

Not to mention the fact that they aren't hired after a year of law school. There's no doubt that high starting salaries has something to do with attracting law students broadly, but the historical record makes it pretty clear that law firms were all responding to and competing with one another.

[vanwinkle]

I hope this stems the flood of people pushing for PI jobs that don't really want them and are just using them as refuge from the storm. I still don't care about law firm employment directly, but I care about how the immense fall-off has been making it even harder than before to land top PI jobs. More spaces for top law students at top law firms = fewer top law students trying to settle for less money but a stable job.

[dresden doll]

[2009 Prospective]

While it looks more and more like those who secure SAs for next summer aren't likely to be no offered if they perform competently, OCI looks as if it is still going to be almost just as brutal as last year. Looks like c/o 2013 will be the first to actually reap any real benefit if hiring does indeed pick back up as the article suggests.

[miamiman]

While it looks more and more like those who secure SAs this summer aren't likely to be no offered if they perform competently, OCI looks as if it is still going to be almost just as brutal as last year. Looks like c/o 2013 will be the first to actually reap any real benefit if hiring does indeed pick back up as the article suggests.

How did you arrive at this conclusion?

[270910]

While it looks more and more like those who secure SAs for next summer aren't likely to be no offered if they perform competently, OCI looks as if it is still going to be almost just as brutal as last year. Looks like c/o 2013 will be the first to actually reap any real benefit if hiring does indeed pick back up as the article suggests.

Article: There is documented evidence of often substantial plans to increases hiring over last year

2009 Prospective: This year's hiring will be just as bad as last year

TLS: ????

[Threepeat]

LOL @ the commenter "Overzealous1L": NY to 190?

190 is likely too high, but it really might go up. A lot of firms have "unfrozen" and re-lock stepped recently. Firms really do try to recruit "top" talent, and a big part of that is offering a package more attractive than the guys down the street. It's very telling that we get anouncements of salary increases right before recruiting season. At least some firms may bump above 160 next year absent another crash. And maybe not - but it's a real possibility.

That is a common misconception. Increases in salary at law firms is less tied to competition for new talent between elite law firms and more to competition for talent between law firms and the other professions--consulting, private equity, etc. If law firms don't pay as much as these professions, then many of the top grads will take jobs in these fields instead of law. (Unless this is what you meant by "the guys down the street" and not "the law firm down the street.")

As far as the articles is concerned, even if the increases are limited to the top firms, there will be some trickle down benefit for the rest of us. In particular, the extra people taking those elite firm jobs will not be competing for the less-elite firms this year.

I find this hard to believe. I haven't seen or heard of many stories where top grads are debating between the professions you mentioned and top law firms.

If this were the case, wouldn't you see more of these types of companies recruiting heavily at OCI? Wouldn't there be more "I'm going biglaw, consulting or bust" talk? I don't doubt that these professions attract new grads to a certain extent, but I don't think biglaw sets their starting salaries to compete with those other professions.

0L disclaimer so my opinion could be completely naive.

[Anonymous User]

kind of refreshing news, especially after just having a conversation with a stanford-grad attorney at the office where i intern about how out of control tuition has gotten. ugh

[dresden doll]

While it looks more and more like those who secure SAs for next summer aren't likely to be no offered if they perform competently, OCI looks as if it is still going to be almost just as brutal as last year. Looks like c/o 2013 will be the first to actually reap any real benefit if hiring does indeed pick back up as the article suggests.

Article: There is documented evidence of often substantial plans to increases hiring over last year

2009 Prospective: This year's hiring will be just as bad as last year

TLS: ????

Unrelated inquiry: mind linking me to the thread you started to remind us all of firms that screwed their associates over when economy went down the drain? I'm doing my bidlist now and I'd like to make sure I avoid them all.