how much is moot court and journal worth at OCI? Forum

[Anonymous User]

in terms of a gpa boost? would employers overlook the low gpa if you have those softs?

[CG614]

in terms of a gpa boost? would employers overlook the low gpa if you have those softs?

Nobody knows for sure, but the consensus is it is between .15-.17 for moot court and .20 - .215 for a journal.

[NYAssociate]

.

[Anonymous User]

so, top 40% + moot court & secondary is equivalent to top 20% and no extracurriculars?

[CG614]

so, top 40% + moot court & secondary is equivalent to top 20% and no extracurriculars?

Exactly.

[270910]

OP, you're being flamed, and it is amusing. To be serious: No extra curricular actually 'boosts' your GPA for hiring, not really even law review. The consensus seems to be ECs (LR, other journal, moot court, bla bla bla) tend to make you more competitive amongst the pool of people with that GPA. Even if most people with, say, a 3.4 for Columbia will get a firm job, the people with a 3.4 from Columbia that also have LR/Journal/Moot Court will do better amongst the pool of employers that would have considered a 3.4.

Does that make sense?

[ggocat]

so, top 40% + moot court & secondary is equivalent to top 20% and no extracurriculars?

No. You are a special snowflake.

[Person]

I think my take on it probably equates to that given by Disco. LR, MC, etc., won't boost you at all, but if you don't have them and you have a decent GPA it can hurt you.

For example, the anecdotal evidence from my school is that those who wrote onto LR really didn't do any better than their grades would have otherwise suggested.

I really don't want to do a journal, but I probably will just for this reason.

[Anonymous User]

Do you list moot court on your resume if you are planning on doing it as a 2L?

[270910]

Do you list moot court on your resume if you are planning on doing it as a 2L?

Many do.

[NYAssociate]

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[Anonymous User]

Are there any firms that people know of that basically require LR? Assume grades are good enough that would have graded onto LR but decided not to due to other commitments(maybe dumb but it’s done now), are there any firms that just aren't worth looking at.

[270910]

Are there any firms that people know of that basically require LR? Assume grades are good enough that would have graded onto LR but decided not to due to other commitments(maybe dumb but it’s done now), are there any firms that just aren't worth looking at.

I've never seem a firm (that hires 2L summers) where every associate is on law review. Not even WLRK or W&C. That being said, the conventional wisdom is that it's nearly impossible to crack some firms such as that (especially with a lit focus) without law review, but I'm not sure how much the data actually plays that out.

It also absolutely depends on your law school. Missing YLJ or HLR might not be nearly as big of a deal as missing RandomT2 Law Journal, you know?

Now, you will have a big issue with not being on LR despite having the grades. It will probably come up in interviews. If your other commitments are legitimate (family problems, etc.) then you might be alright - but I've heard it directly from one hiring partner that people who grade onto LR but decline it are basically auto-dings since it shows a real lack of dedication/commitment. I wrote the comment off as idiosyncratic at the time and make no representation of its overall veracity, but I heard it with my own ears, so...

[270910]

As a final comment on LR v. not LR: Especially ITE, it might be much less that a firm requires it and more that you'll likely be competing for spots with everyone on your school's law review. So while there may be enough to go around, everyone on LR is going to have a better looking resume than yours, so it'll be a hurdle no matter what the firm actually thinks with respect to the utility / fancyness of LR.

Still, I know a lot of people at top flight firms without LR, and a lot of people with LR who either only got or chose less-than-top-flight firms. As always with OCI, generalizations are difficult to draw and dangerous to base decisions on.

[Anonymous User]

Are there any firms that people know of that basically require LR? Assume grades are good enough that would have graded onto LR but decided not to due to other commitments(maybe dumb but it’s done now), are there any firms that just aren't worth looking at.

I've never seem a firm (that hires 2L summers) where every associate is on law review. Not even WLRK or W&C. That being said, the conventional wisdom is that it's nearly impossible to crack some firms such as that (especially with a lit focus) without law review, but I'm not sure how much the data actually plays that out.

It also absolutely depends on your law school. Missing YLJ or HLR might not be nearly as big of a deal as missing RandomT2 Law Journal, you know?

Now, you will have a big issue with not being on LR despite having the grades. It will probably come up in interviews. If your other commitments are legitimate (family problems, etc.) then you might be alright - but I've heard it directly from one hiring partner that people who grade onto LR but decline it are basically auto-dings since it shows a real lack of dedication/commitment. I wrote the comment off as idiosyncratic at the time and make no representation of its overall veracity, but I heard it with my own ears, so...

law school = t6. and the other committments are things various things I had agreed to do next year that I didn't think I'd be able to juggle w a journal. I also didn't expect to have grade on grades(I did better second semester and I thought I would do worse)...

[270910]

Well, you're in good shape to land an elite firm, but exactly how much of a problem no-LR and no-LR despite offer will turn out to be is hard to say ex ante. (OH GOD THE LATIN).

[deneuve39]

Are there any firms that people know of that basically require LR? Assume grades are good enough that would have graded onto LR but decided not to due to other commitments(maybe dumb but it’s done now), are there any firms that just aren't worth looking at.

Susman Godfrey is one firm that, at least at CLS, will only seriously consider you if you have LR.