Consulting - the end of a legal career? Forum

[megaTTTron]

Anybody have any info on consulting? Like, if I take a consulting position right out of law school will that end the possibility of moving back into the law? Anybody have any experience with this? Do consulting firms allow JD's time to take the bar before beginning? I know hardly anything about consulting, I'm just curious. Danke.

[Dman]

I too am very curious about this. Just today i was browsing McKinley type consulting firm websites. Most say they take JDs but many said to not apply till just prior to graduating. I am guessing that would mean during 3L. Need input!

[anli]

I was a consultant before I went to law school. Generally, JD hires are treated like MBA hires, although your degree can be helpful on regulation-intensive projects. Procedurally, this means you take a summer internship your 2L year which converts into an offer. Most firms will allow some flexibility to arrange your start date, and ones with substantial JD classes probably expect you to take the bar.

I do not know about the feasibility of transitioning back into a legal career - I expect it is quite difficult - but I have never known a JD consultant who wanted to. Business life is pleasant in comparison to the firm haul - by and large, the work is more exciting and you are more valued as a strategy advisor than as a legal one. If you are talented, your exit opportunities are better. The tradeoff is that you make less base than your peers with more volatility (both up and down).

I'd think carefully about going into consulting. It is not really a backdoor - at my old firm, our JD hires had pedigrees as good as their MBA counterparts, and some had both. I strongly suspect that any management consultant with a JD (at one of the top firms or a boutique) could have taken a biglaw gig. But if you have the grades and just don't like the law, or want a little more risk for potentially larger rewards, consulting's not a bad gig at all.

[justdoit2410]

I used to work at a mid level DC law firm (about 700 lawyers) and what I saw a lot was that they would hire former consultants on as an advisor or senior advisor type position. They would work closely with the attorneys of the firm on major legal cases and the work that did not require legal advice they handled on their own. Hope that helps some.

[megaTTTron]

Excellent, thanks for the input.

[nicola.kirwan]

Question for someone who knows. A lot of the top law schools have irregular grading systems or no real grades. How do the top consulting firms view this? I had to put "GPA not applicable" on my application, but I fear that will prejudice me. At the same time, if they're used to JDs from ultra-elite law schools (not where I am, btw), seeing no law school "GPA" should be common. I've heard here and there that McKinsey, for instance, doesn't look at your law school grades at all.
Does anyone know if this is accurate or what the policy generally is in this regard at the consulting firms?

[Cmoss]

Business life is pleasant in comparison to the firm haul - by and large.

dont consultants travel 75% of the time and work 16 hour days while on clients sites?

[Blindmelon]

Business life is pleasant in comparison to the firm haul - by and large.

dont consultants travel 75% of the time and work 16 hour days while on clients sites?

Yup. The life of a consultant is miserable until you get to the partner level. Then you just schmooze and get clients. Its pretty similar to firm life, but with a lot more travel.

[Cmoss]

Business life is pleasant in comparison to the firm haul - by and large.

dont consultants travel 75% of the time and work 16 hour days while on clients sites?

Yup. The life of a consultant is miserable until you get to the partner level. Then you just schmooze and get clients. Its pretty similar to firm life, but with a lot more travel.

so how is this pleasant? partner level is what 7 years away in each of the fields?

[Blindmelon]

Maybe Anli had a better experience than me. He can weigh in.

[ToTransferOrNot]

More travel sounds great to me. Free meals, etc.

I hope to travel a lot, given the practice area I'm going in to. Every hour from the moment you get in the cab is billable, unless you're sleeping. That's fantastic.

[motiontodismiss]

Travel is totally profit. Travel=pocket frequent flyer miles (a decent firm will let you fly business for longer trips and book your own travel=more miles). Out of town 4 days a week=you don't need to live in Manhattan paying $2k/month in rent (probably better off living within walking distance from EWR/JFK/LGA sine that's where you'll be commuting to every Monday). Travel=all sorts of rental car/hotel points (if you're out of town 4 days a week on a consistent basis and you don't become a total frequent flyer mile/hotel point/rental car points whore, you're literally leaving money on the table). There was an article about an ex-consultant that now lives on them (FF miles/hotel points). Out of town=you do not spend any of your own money. $100k-$120k plus bonus is great when you pay $700 for an apartment in Newark (or couchsurf), eat on the firm's dime 4 days a week, get to fly business class for $400 for personal travel, and stay at Hilton for free.

As for hours what I heard is 14-16 at the client site M-R and a normal 8 hours F at base.

And the one time every 3 years you do get to take a vacation you get to basically go for free. What else are you gonna do with 100k+ frequent flyer miles?

[Kiersten1985]

Anybody have any info on consulting? Like, if I take a consulting position right out of law school will that end the possibility of moving back into the law? Anybody have any experience with this? Do consulting firms allow JD's time to take the bar before beginning? I know hardly anything about consulting, I'm just curious. Danke.

Why are you getting your JD then? Seems like kind of a waste.

[ToTransferOrNot]

Anybody have any info on consulting? Like, if I take a consulting position right out of law school will that end the possibility of moving back into the law? Anybody have any experience with this? Do consulting firms allow JD's time to take the bar before beginning? I know hardly anything about consulting, I'm just curious. Danke.

Why are you getting your JD then? Seems like kind of a waste.

McKinsey actively recruits JDs from top law schools. In order to get an MBA from a business school that McKinsey would recruit from, you'd need significant work experience of the kind that most undergrad majors wouldn't lead to.

This is one of the few examples of JDs being portable degrees.

[Kiersten1985]

Anybody have any info on consulting? Like, if I take a consulting position right out of law school will that end the possibility of moving back into the law? Anybody have any experience with this? Do consulting firms allow JD's time to take the bar before beginning? I know hardly anything about consulting, I'm just curious. Danke.

Why are you getting your JD then? Seems like kind of a waste.

McKinsey actively recruits JDs from top law schools. In order to get an MBA from a business school that McKinsey would recruit from, you'd need significant work experience of the kind that most undergrad majors wouldn't lead to.

This is one of the few examples of JDs being portable degrees.

Didn't realize that. Good to know.

Not to hijack the thread, but what kind of consulting would you actually do? Would it be consulting in-house legal depts?

[ToTransferOrNot]

They hire you for precisely the same position they hire MBAs for, general consulting.

[Blindmelon]

They hire you for precisely the same position they hire MBAs for, general consulting.

Yea, from HYSCCN pretty much. They don't go much lower than that LS-wise.

Travel is totally profit. Travel=pocket frequent flyer miles (a decent firm will let you fly business for longer trips and book your own travel=more miles). Out of town 4 days a week=you don't need to live in Manhattan paying $2k/month in rent (probably better off living within walking distance from EWR/JFK/LGA sine that's where you'll be commuting to every Monday). Travel=all sorts of rental car/hotel points (if you're out of town 4 days a week on a consistent basis and you don't become a total frequent flyer mile/hotel point/rental car points whore, you're literally leaving money on the table). There was an article about an ex-consultant that now lives on them (FF miles/hotel points). Out of town=you do not spend any of your own money. $100k-$120k plus bonus is great when you pay $700 for an apartment in Newark (or couchsurf), eat on the firm's dime 4 days a week, get to fly business class for $400 for personal travel, and stay at Hilton for free.

As for hours what I heard is 14-16 at the client site M-R and a normal 8 hours F at base.

And the one time every 3 years you do get to take a vacation you get to basically go for free. What else are you gonna do with 100k+ frequent flyer miles?

Wait... did you ever work in consulting or is this hearsay? I found the travel to be miserable. For a few months you're living the good life - fancy dinners, etc. Eventually you get homesick, can't maintain anything resembling a relationship because your boss calls you on a Sat. and tells you to be in TX on Sunday morning and to have a pitch ready for him to look at the next morning. It gets ridiculously lonely. You can't keep plans so your friend network dwindles, traveling is a nightmare (long lines, delays, cancellations). Living out a suitcase is awful, eating out all the time you get groggy and nasty, you work like an animal on a client site where face-time is incredibly important.

I dated someone for 3 years - did consulting, would travel, had to constantly fly around and had to cancel vacations with her, etc. Eventually we gave up. Hotel points are great and all, but the hours suck, the travel is grating, and the pay isn't as good as firm work... the only upside is that you get a lot of substantive work pretty early on and it tends to be interesting... well unless they throw you on a client site in Utah where you do quant analysis for 14/hours a day and spend your nights at a hotel bar where you try to pick up locals out of desperation.

/rant.

[motiontodismiss]

They hire you for precisely the same position they hire MBAs for, general consulting.

Yea, from HYSCCN pretty much. They don't go much lower than that LS-wise.

Travel is totally profit. Travel=pocket frequent flyer miles (a decent firm will let you fly business for longer trips and book your own travel=more miles). Out of town 4 days a week=you don't need to live in Manhattan paying $2k/month in rent (probably better off living within walking distance from EWR/JFK/LGA sine that's where you'll be commuting to every Monday). Travel=all sorts of rental car/hotel points (if you're out of town 4 days a week on a consistent basis and you don't become a total frequent flyer mile/hotel point/rental car points whore, you're literally leaving money on the table). There was an article about an ex-consultant that now lives on them (FF miles/hotel points). Out of town=you do not spend any of your own money. $100k-$120k plus bonus is great when you pay $700 for an apartment in Newark (or couchsurf), eat on the firm's dime 4 days a week, get to fly business class for $400 for personal travel, and stay at Hilton for free.

As for hours what I heard is 14-16 at the client site M-R and a normal 8 hours F at base.

And the one time every 3 years you do get to take a vacation you get to basically go for free. What else are you gonna do with 100k+ frequent flyer miles?

Wait... did you ever work in consulting or is this hearsay? I found the travel to be miserable. For a few months you're living the good life - fancy dinners, etc. Eventually you get homesick, can't maintain anything resembling a relationship because your boss calls you on a Sat. and tells you to be in TX on Sunday morning and to have a pitch ready for him to look at the next morning. It gets ridiculously lonely. You can't keep plans so your friend network dwindles, traveling is a nightmare (long lines, delays, cancellations). Living out a suitcase is awful, eating out all the time you get groggy and nasty, you work like an animal on a client site where face-time is incredibly important.

I dated someone for 3 years - did consulting, would travel, had to constantly fly around and had to cancel vacations with her, etc. Eventually we gave up. Hotel points are great and all, but the hours suck, the travel is grating, and the pay isn't as good as firm work... the only upside is that you get a lot of substantive work pretty early on and it tends to be interesting... well unless they throw you on a client site in Utah where you do quant analysis for 14/hours a day and spend your nights at a hotel bar where you try to pick up locals out of desperation.

/rant.

100% hearsay. And consulting just like IB and biglaw are generally not considered permanent type careers. And as if working for an asshole partner who makes 20x what you make and bills half the time and still thinks you're too expensive and taking directions from a 22 year old snot-nosed investment banking analyst at 3am is any better. Every job I think has its share of suck. Some more than others.

[ToTransferOrNot]

They hire you for precisely the same position they hire MBAs for, general consulting.

Yea, from HYSCCN pretty much. They don't go much lower than that LS-wise.

Travel is totally profit. Travel=pocket frequent flyer miles (a decent firm will let you fly business for longer trips and book your own travel=more miles). Out of town 4 days a week=you don't need to live in Manhattan paying $2k/month in rent (probably better off living within walking distance from EWR/JFK/LGA sine that's where you'll be commuting to every Monday). Travel=all sorts of rental car/hotel points (if you're out of town 4 days a week on a consistent basis and you don't become a total frequent flyer mile/hotel point/rental car points whore, you're literally leaving money on the table). There was an article about an ex-consultant that now lives on them (FF miles/hotel points). Out of town=you do not spend any of your own money. $100k-$120k plus bonus is great when you pay $700 for an apartment in Newark (or couchsurf), eat on the firm's dime 4 days a week, get to fly business class for $400 for personal travel, and stay at Hilton for free.

As for hours what I heard is 14-16 at the client site M-R and a normal 8 hours F at base.

And the one time every 3 years you do get to take a vacation you get to basically go for free. What else are you gonna do with 100k+ frequent flyer miles?

Wait... did you ever work in consulting or is this hearsay? I found the travel to be miserable. For a few months you're living the good life - fancy dinners, etc. Eventually you get homesick, can't maintain anything resembling a relationship because your boss calls you on a Sat. and tells you to be in TX on Sunday morning and to have a pitch ready for him to look at the next morning. It gets ridiculously lonely. You can't keep plans so your friend network dwindles, traveling is a nightmare (long lines, delays, cancellations). Living out a suitcase is awful, eating out all the time you get groggy and nasty, you work like an animal on a client site where face-time is incredibly important.

I dated someone for 3 years - did consulting, would travel, had to constantly fly around and had to cancel vacations with her, etc. Eventually we gave up. Hotel points are great and all, but the hours suck, the travel is grating, and the pay isn't as good as firm work... the only upside is that you get a lot of substantive work pretty early on and it tends to be interesting... well unless they throw you on a client site in Utah where you do quant analysis for 14/hours a day and spend your nights at a hotel bar where you try to pick up locals out of desperation.

/rant.

This is why I've cut human interaction out of my necessities in life. It will make it so much easier to make good money.

[Renzo]

They hire you for precisely the same position they hire MBAs for, general consulting.

Yea, from HYSCCN pretty much. They don't go much lower than that LS-wise.

Travel is totally profit. Travel=pocket frequent flyer miles (a decent firm will let you fly business for longer trips and book your own travel=more miles). Out of town 4 days a week=you don't need to live in Manhattan paying $2k/month in rent (probably better off living within walking distance from EWR/JFK/LGA sine that's where you'll be commuting to every Monday). Travel=all sorts of rental car/hotel points (if you're out of town 4 days a week on a consistent basis and you don't become a total frequent flyer mile/hotel point/rental car points whore, you're literally leaving money on the table). There was an article about an ex-consultant that now lives on them (FF miles/hotel points). Out of town=you do not spend any of your own money. $100k-$120k plus bonus is great when you pay $700 for an apartment in Newark (or couchsurf), eat on the firm's dime 4 days a week, get to fly business class for $400 for personal travel, and stay at Hilton for free.

As for hours what I heard is 14-16 at the client site M-R and a normal 8 hours F at base.

And the one time every 3 years you do get to take a vacation you get to basically go for free. What else are you gonna do with 100k+ frequent flyer miles?

Wait... did you ever work in consulting or is this hearsay? I found the travel to be miserable. For a few months you're living the good life - fancy dinners, etc. Eventually you get homesick, can't maintain anything resembling a relationship because your boss calls you on a Sat. and tells you to be in TX on Sunday morning and to have a pitch ready for him to look at the next morning. It gets ridiculously lonely. You can't keep plans so your friend network dwindles, traveling is a nightmare (long lines, delays, cancellations). Living out a suitcase is awful, eating out all the time you get groggy and nasty, you work like an animal on a client site where face-time is incredibly important.

I dated someone for 3 years - did consulting, would travel, had to constantly fly around and had to cancel vacations with her, etc. Eventually we gave up. Hotel points are great and all, but the hours suck, the travel is grating, and the pay isn't as good as firm work... the only upside is that you get a lot of substantive work pretty early on and it tends to be interesting... well unless they throw you on a client site in Utah where you do quant analysis for 14/hours a day and spend your nights at a hotel bar where you try to pick up locals out of desperation.

/rant.

But let's not forget that it's up-or-out. So, even if you hate the travel, you're probably only doing it for a few years before you leave for a corporate job someplace (one way or another)

[Blindmelon]

100% hearsay. And consulting just like IB and biglaw are generally not considered permanent type careers. And as if working for an asshole partner who makes 20x what you make and bills half the time and still thinks you're too expensive and taking directions from a 22 year old snot-nosed investment banking analyst at 3am is any better. Every job I think has its share of suck. Some more than others.

Very true, most jobs where you make 6 figures under 30 are pretty miserable. Travel though, adds a whole new level of suckage IMO.

[Blindmelon]

But let's not forget that it's up-or-out. So, even if you hate the travel, you're probably only doing it for a few years before you leave for a corporate job someplace (one way or another)

This is true - McKinsey is a pretty serious line on a resume. Unfortunately, I worked for a good company, but it wasn't McKinsey, BCG or Bain. So it didn't have the same cache, and therefore not the same pay-off exit-wise.

[motiontodismiss]

100% hearsay. And consulting just like IB and biglaw are generally not considered permanent type careers. And as if working for an asshole partner who makes 20x what you make and bills half the time and still thinks you're too expensive and taking directions from a 22 year old snot-nosed investment banking analyst at 3am is any better. Every job I think has its share of suck. Some more than others.

Very true, most jobs where you make 6 figures under 30 are pretty miserable. Travel though, adds a whole new level of suckage IMO.

The trick with avoiding delays is ALWAYS flying out at the crack of dawn and NEVER taking peaktime flights. You'll fly out on time short of weather in which case nobody's going anywhere anyway.

[Kohinoor]

100% hearsay. And consulting just like IB and biglaw are generally not considered permanent type careers. And as if working for an asshole partner who makes 20x what you make and bills half the time and still thinks you're too expensive and taking directions from a 22 year old snot-nosed investment banking analyst at 3am is any better. Every job I think has its share of suck. Some more than others.

Very true, most jobs where you make 6 figures under 30 are pretty miserable. Travel though, adds a whole new level of suckage IMO.

The trick with avoiding delays is ALWAYS flying out at the crack of dawn and NEVER taking peaktime flights. You'll fly out on time short of weather in which case nobody's going anywhere anyway.

This only works if you're not flying out of the boonies.

[nicola.kirwan]

So...no perspectives on the grades question posted above?