Williams and Connolly NALP data Forum

[Anonymous User]

Parsing the data

Did they really have 37 2L summer clerks in 2009 and offer only 12?
Funny how they left that info blank on the form:

# 2009 Summer 2Ls considered for associate offers:
# offers made:
Hire school term clerks? N
Prefer significant prior experience in area?
1Ls hired? N
For attorney hires, require: Bar admission?
For attorney hires, require: Prior practice experience?
If yes, # of years?
U.S. citizenship required?
When after 12/1 should 1Ls apply?
Split summers allowed? Y
If yes, minimum weeks: 7
1Ls considered for interns?
Comments:

[MrKappus]

Copying and pasting the data

Did they really have 37 2L summer clerks in 2009 and offer only 12?
Funny how they left that info blank on the form:

# 2009 Summer 2Ls considered for associate offers:
# offers made:
Hire school term clerks? N
Prefer significant prior experience in area?
1Ls hired? N
For attorney hires, require: Bar admission?
For attorney hires, require: Prior practice experience?
If yes, # of years?
U.S. citizenship required?
When after 12/1 should 1Ls apply?
Split summers allowed? Y
If yes, minimum weeks: 7
1Ls considered for interns?
Comments:

ftfy.

[LawSchoolWannaBe]

W&C doesn't make offers like other firms do, at least from what I've been told. After you clerk, you ask them if you can join, or something like that.

[Anonymous User]

Because nearly all of our summer associates obtain judicial clerkships, formal offers are only extended after the clerks receive permission from judges to request offers. Typically, all summer associates who request offers are welcomed for permanent employment.

[Anonymous User]

Because nearly all of our summer associates obtain judicial clerkships, formal offers are only extended after the clerks receive permission from judges to request offers. Typically, all summer associates who request offers are welcomed for permanent employment.

Not really. Check out this profile...

--LinkRemoved--
http://www.wc.com/eblankenstein
--LinkRemoved--

all recently graduated associates

[dbt]

Because nearly all of our summer associates obtain judicial clerkships, formal offers are only extended after the clerks receive permission from judges to request offers. Typically, all summer associates who request offers are welcomed for permanent employment.

Can someone explain this process more clearly? I don't get it.

[Aeroplane]

Because nearly all of our summer associates obtain judicial clerkships, formal offers are only extended after the clerks receive permission from judges to request offers. Typically, all summer associates who request offers are welcomed for permanent employment.

Can someone explain this process more clearly? I don't get it.

I don't know anything specifically about W&C, but generally, a lot of judges won't allow their clerks to have "open offers" waiting at firms throughout the duration of the clerkship. It's a potential conflict of interest or appearance of one or some such. I think that's the practice W&C is referencing.

[Anonymous User]

Because nearly all of our summer associates obtain judicial clerkships, formal offers are only extended after the clerks receive permission from judges to request offers. Typically, all summer associates who request offers are welcomed for permanent employment.

Can someone explain this process more clearly? I don't get it.

I don't know anything specifically about W&C, but generally, a lot of judges won't allow their clerks to have "open offers" waiting at firms throughout the duration of the clerkship. It's a potential conflict of interest or appearance of one or some such. I think that's the practice W&C is referencing.

But a some of the recently hired associates have not completed a clerkship....

[Anonymous User]

This is the anon who posted their (repeatedly stated, public) policy.

Williams & Connolly does not make offers the same way normal firms do because of the defacto clerking requirement. There are associates without clerkships listed on W&C's website. I do not have information as to whether they are exceptions to the usual rule, accepted clerkships for later, or are applying for clerkships later. But because their usual hiring policy is so heavily dependant on the clerkship process, they do not report offer numbers.

That being said, I don't think anybody has ever accused W&C of giving anything less than at or near 100% of their summers offers or wink-offer-nod-wink-offer-not-an-offer-winks.

[imchuckbass58]

Can someone explain this process more clearly? I don't get it.

I don't know anything specifically about W&C, but generally, a lot of judges won't allow their clerks to have "open offers" waiting at firms throughout the duration of the clerkship. It's a potential conflict of interest or appearance of one or some such. I think that's the practice W&C is referencing.

This is correct. At pretty much every firm I've heard of, you formally turn down the offer when you accept a clerkship, then "reapply" as your clerkship is finishing. Most firms (pre-ITE, every firm) will re-extend the offer, even though you technically "turned it down."

[doyleoil]

Most firms will re-extend the offer

this is the hope, at any rate - not so sure how justified it is anymore

[dbt]

Most firms will re-extend the offer

this is the hope, at any rate - not so sure how justified it is anymore

This is what I'm interested in for W&C. I know a lot of firms are struggling to re-extend offers to clerks. But if it's just the way things are done to become a SA at W&C, that's fine.

[Anonymous User]

Most firms will re-extend the offer

this is the hope, at any rate - not so sure how justified it is anymore

This is what I'm interested in for W&C. I know a lot of firms are struggling to re-extend offers to clerks. But if it's just the way things are done to become a SA at W&C, that's fine.

This is just the way things are done at W&C. The firm has a bullet proof reputation - no layoffs, no salary reductions, no deferrals, no no-offers, no cold offers. Part of it is being small, part of it is being so well known and respected in their niche.

[rando]

Most firms will re-extend the offer

this is the hope, at any rate - not so sure how justified it is anymore

Still as justified as it ever was. Former clerks are a great asset.

[doyleoil]

Former clerks are a great asset.

are you saying this based on your broader knowledge of the clerk-hiring market right now, or just because it makes sense.

obviously clerks are/should be an asset. but the rumor seems to be that lots of clerks are having trouble right now. granted that may change in the next few years (if this isn't some kind of economic apocalypse).

and again, my comment wasn't really on the state of things at w&c. i'm sure if anyone is taking back all their former clerks, it's them.

[Anonymous User]

Former clerks are a great asset.

are you saying this based on your broader knowledge of the clerk-hiring market right now, or just because it makes sense.

obviously clerks are/should be an asset. but the rumor seems to be that lots of clerks are having trouble right now. granted that may change in the next few years (if this isn't some kind of economic apocalypse).

and again, my comment wasn't really on the state of things at w&c. i'm sure if anyone is taking back all their former clerks, it's them.

in re: clerk hiring - the rumor is that firms are hiring fewer clerks as laterals. There is MUCH less chatter, perhaps even no chatter of a firm refusing to hire back a former summer.

Back in the day, firms like Covington, W&C, and others would often hire people who summered at other firms once they finished with their clerkship. There is a lot of evidence that such more-or-less lateral hiring has slowed down. Like all lateral hiring.

There is little - and possibly absolutely zero - evidence that firms are now reluctant to re-hire their own summers after they do a clerkship.

The problem is there are so many permutations. But 1L - > 2L SA -> graduate -> clerk -> same firm as 2L SA appears to be just as credited and possible as it always was. If you LEAVE your firm to clerk, or if you attempt to get in to a firm you did NOT SA at, then the market is looking tougher than it was. It's hard to parse and a small pool of people with little incentive to chatter, but that's the way I see it based on my discussions / research to date.

[rando]

Former clerks are a great asset.

are you saying this based on your broader knowledge of the clerk-hiring market right now, or just because it makes sense.

obviously clerks are/should be an asset. but the rumor seems to be that lots of clerks are having trouble right now. granted that may change in the next few years (if this isn't some kind of economic apocalypse).

and again, my comment wasn't really on the state of things at w&c. i'm sure if anyone is taking back all their former clerks, it's them.

No. Its based on the reasoning behind hiring clerks. And i'm not so sure that clerks are having so much trouble "right now." I think that was more a last year thing when firms were first faced with the fallout and had no work/nowhere to put people.

Just anecdotally, I know a current fed. dist. clerk who decided he didn't want to go back to the firm who made his initial offer and so applied across the board during his clerkship term. He had zero trouble getting several offers. Obviously not a general state of clerk hiring, but can't be a bad thing.

[rando]

Former clerks are a great asset.

are you saying this based on your broader knowledge of the clerk-hiring market right now, or just because it makes sense.

obviously clerks are/should be an asset. but the rumor seems to be that lots of clerks are having trouble right now. granted that may change in the next few years (if this isn't some kind of economic apocalypse).

and again, my comment wasn't really on the state of things at w&c. i'm sure if anyone is taking back all their former clerks, it's them.

in re: clerk hiring - the rumor is that firms are hiring fewer clerks as laterals. There is MUCH less chatter, perhaps even no chatter of a firm refusing to hire back a former summer.

Back in the day, firms like Covington, W&C, and others would often hire people who summered at other firms once they finished with their clerkship. There is a lot of evidence that such more-or-less lateral hiring has slowed down. Like all lateral hiring.

There is little - and possibly absolutely zero - evidence that firms are now reluctant to re-hire their own summers after they do a clerkship.

The problem is there are so many permutations. But 1L - > 2L SA -> graduate -> clerk -> same firm as 2L SA appears to be just as credited and possible as it always was. If you LEAVE your firm to clerk, or if you attempt to get in to a firm you did NOT SA at, then the market is looking tougher than it was. It's hard to parse and a small pool of people with little incentive to chatter, but that's the way I see it based on my discussions / research to date.

And obviously different than what my source said based on his personal experience. But that is one person. I believe the above reasoning to be largely true.