1L performance for bigger litigation firms: Boies/Quinn/etc. Forum

[Anonymous User]

I'll be a 1L at one of HYS this coming fall.

I'm coming in thinking about corporate litigation, and have been doing a lot of research on firms. I know the uber-prestigious ones (Robbins, Munger, etc.) require incredible performance everywhere, but I was wondering what sort of performance would give me a decent shot at a firm like Quinn Emanuel or Boies Schiller.

I'm open to any of SF/NY/DC/LA/Chi, and in fact would take any number of cities in which these firms have offices. Is it taboo to tell a firm you like them so much you'd work in any of their offices that have you, or does that seem a bit desperate?

I imagine my transcript won't have to resemble a train track of all Hs to be considered, but where would put me in a good position for a firm such as these?

Thanks!

[thesealocust]

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[Anonymous User]

I can't quite get a handle on Boies. They have a good reputation but aren't as selective as many other good firms in hiring, and they had a brutal no offer rate recently.

Quinn really isn't anything special in the big law flock. The data I've seen suggest it's a manageable firm with solid (but not astronomical) performance at T10ish schools, so I'd imagine it would be quite manageable (i.e. transcript needn't resemble a train track) out of H.

Most I've talked to suggest it's much better to focus your geographical taste. Firm offices often operate as islands, so even if the firm is big and multi office you really have to sell yourself to the people who work in one office. Better, in most cases, to be as market specific as your interests let you get away with.

To research for yourself, look up attorney bios at these firms. Look at there credentials. Are they festooned with academic awards and journal memberships, or do they look more like average law students? Are the T10 students better credentialed than the YHS students? Do they hire in any significant number outside of the T14? All of those pieces of data can help you approximate selectivity.

Very interested in Boies DC for anyone who has info on them (especially UVA students as that's where I'm heading).

[dbt]

I'll echo that Boies and Quinn NY had relatively brutal offer rates (75%). Definitely something to keep in mind.

[Anonymous User]

I'll echo that Boies and Quinn NY had relatively brutal offer rates (75%). Definitely something to keep in mind.

I mean when you compare that to jobs/internships in other fields that's really pretty normal. I guess I just tend to compare legal employment to normal employment which lowers my expectations. What's curious though is that Boies is doing well and yet they have this relatively poor offer rate.

[Anonymous User]

Boies DC pursued me pretty aggressively. They sent some very bright, friendly people out for interviews and, if I recall correctly, did some legwork to contact top people from the class who were considering DC but who did not have screening interviews. T11-14, top 1% at the time, good resume/pre-LS WE. I don't think one needs anything close to those numbers to get an offer from them, though. If I had to guess, top half at HYS is probably enough to have them give you a serious look (assuming strong resume & interviewing skills), though you'd probably need more like top third to be comfortable about it.

[thesealocust]

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[dbt]

I'll echo that Boies and Quinn NY had relatively brutal offer rates (75%). Definitely something to keep in mind.

I mean when you compare that to jobs/internships in other fields that's really pretty normal. I guess I just tend to compare legal employment to normal employment which lowers my expectations. What's curious though is that Boies is doing well and yet they have this relatively poor offer rate.

I think the difference (and problem) is that if you miss out on getting that summer offer, you can usually kiss biglaw goodbye forever. A lot of the more reputable firms realize this and are willing to take on a few extra associates so they can have near 100% offer rates.

[dbt]

I'll echo that Boies and Quinn NY had relatively brutal offer rates (75%). Definitely something to keep in mind.

I mean when you compare that to jobs/internships in other fields that's really pretty normal. I guess I just tend to compare legal employment to normal employment which lowers my expectations. What's curious though is that Boies is doing well and yet they have this relatively poor offer rate.

Regular job: If you don't get an offer you try and get another.

Legal job: If your 2L summer firm does not give you an offer you will never be offered an associate position at a large law firm. That branch of your career is over. Firms recognize this and strive for 99%+ offer rates.

You'd best adjust your thinking in a hurry. It's VERY different in the legal world, with serious consequences for your career. It's not just quirky.

haha. exactly!

[Anonymous User]

Boies DC pursued me pretty aggressively. They sent some very bright, friendly people out for interviews and, if I recall correctly, did some legwork to contact top people from the class who were considering DC but who did not have screening interviews. T11-14, top 1% at the time, good resume/pre-LS WE. I don't think one needs anything close to those numbers to get an offer from them, though. If I had to guess, top half at HYS is probably enough to have them give you a serious look (assuming strong resume & interviewing skills), though you'd probably need more like top third to be comfortable about it.

I'm sorry but I'm confused about the bolded--could you clarify? Do you feel comfortable sharing why you turned (I assume) Boies down?

[thesealocust]

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[Anonymous User]

Boies DC pursued me pretty aggressively. They sent some very bright, friendly people out for interviews and, if I recall correctly, did some legwork to contact top people from the class who were considering DC but who did not have screening interviews. T11-14, top 1% at the time, good resume/pre-LS WE. I don't think one needs anything close to those numbers to get an offer from them, though. If I had to guess, top half at HYS is probably enough to have them give you a serious look (assuming strong resume & interviewing skills), though you'd probably need more like top third to be comfortable about it.

I'm sorry but I'm confused about the bolded--could you clarify? Do you feel comfortable sharing why you turned (I assume) Boies down?

At a guess, because OP was top 1% at a T11-14?

It's not like Boies is some sucky firm. They pay huge salaries and they work on some of the most interesting cases available.

http://abovethelaw.com/2009/12/associat ... salaries-/

http://www.law360.com/articles/138481

[doyleoil]

Boies DC pursued me pretty aggressively. They sent some very bright, friendly people out for interviews and, if I recall correctly, did some legwork to contact top people from the class who were considering DC but who did not have screening interviews. T11-14, top 1% at the time, good resume/pre-LS WE. I don't think one needs anything close to those numbers to get an offer from them, though. If I had to guess, top half at HYS is probably enough to have them give you a serious look (assuming strong resume & interviewing skills), though you'd probably need more like top third to be comfortable about it.

I'm sorry but I'm confused about the bolded--could you clarify? Do you feel comfortable sharing why you turned (I assume) Boies down?

At a guess, because OP was top 1% at a T11-14?

such a sensible practice, and it renders these idiotic "no prescreening" rules almost (though not entirely) impotent - yet another thing to add to my list of t14 changes past their time:

1) flunk people out
2) reinstitute prescreening

[thesealocust]

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[doyleoil]

Oh, good, so to eliminate push-back, let's propose to let Johnny Moron and Sally Fuckup interview at any firm they damn well please. Then, when they don't get any offers, OCS can blame their bidding strategy and avoid any of the "push-back" that occurs when firms honestly tell students up-front that they really don't want to waste their time.

It's not my fault that last year every random V80 on the block decided they'd rather not hire anyone than have to settle for some run-of-the-mill, bottom-third T14 kid.

[dbt]

Oh, good, so to eliminate push-back, let's propose to let Johnny Moron and Sally Fuckup interview at any firm they damn well please. Then, when they don't get any offers, OCS can blame their bidding strategy and avoid any of the "push-back" that occurs when firms honestly tell students up-front that they really don't want to waste their time.

It's not my fault that last year every random V80 on the block decided they'd rather not hire anyone than have to settle for some run-of-the-mill, bottom-third T14 kid.

There is no doubt that a blind bidding system is entirely idiotic, especially ITE. The professors I've spoke with at my school hate it.

[thesealocust]

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[dbt]

Oh, good, so to eliminate push-back, let's propose to let Johnny Moron and Sally Fuckup interview at any firm they damn well please. Then, when they don't get any offers, OCS can blame their bidding strategy and avoid any of the "push-back" that occurs when firms honestly tell students up-front that they really don't want to waste their time.

It's not my fault that last year every random V80 on the block decided they'd rather not hire anyone than have to settle for some run-of-the-mill, bottom-third T14 kid.

There is no doubt that a blind bidding system is entirely idiotic, especially ITE. The professors I've spoke with at my school hate it.

That's funny, the professors I've spoke with at my firms have no idea how legal hiring works and expressed amusement at ITE, wondering if it meant our students were getting "less prestigious" firm jobs than usual.

Yea I think it varies. The prof I talked to was like "it doesn't matter how long you sit in that interview with firm X and charm them. if you don't have Y GPA, I can assure you that you are not getting an offer." I'm pretty sure she used the word "shit" to describe the system lol.

[miamiman]

Do any schools reach some sort of middle road system? Limited pre-sreening, I suppose, is the right way of phrasing it?

[thesealocust]

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[mallard]

These are both workhorse firms with horrible quality of life.

[doyleoil]

These are both workhorse firms with horrible quality of life.

Pop quiz.

"Name a good firm in a primary market with a less-than-horrible QOL."

You have 1 minute to complete this quiz.

[mallard]

These are both workhorse firms with horrible quality of life.

Pop quiz.

"Name a good firm in a primary market with a less-than-horrible QOL."

You have 1 minute to complete this quiz.

Patterson Belknap, Jenner & Block, etc.

And Quinn and Boies are known for being shitty above and beyond the norm.

[doyleoil]

These are both workhorse firms with horrible quality of life.

Pop quiz.

"Name a good firm in a primary market with a less-than-horrible QOL."

You have 1 minute to complete this quiz.

Patterson Belknap, Jenner & Block, etc.

And Quinn and Boies are known for being shitty above and beyond the norm.

No I know. But I don't think really good lit is a picnic anywhere (which is why it's good to like what you do).

[mallard]

That's true, but it's worst in New York and at these firms. Seriously, while it's really bad anywhere, most people I've talked to say that the difference between tending to leave work at 10PM and at midnight is enormous.