Had to Post Anon - for UVA people regarding deferment Forum

[whattodo2008]

Are all the amounts the same? If you're postin anon., would you mind posting the amount? Thanks.

$54,000

That is tasty.

[Anonymous User]

I got the same offer as you OP I believe. I don't personally think it is worth it. Can you make substantially more than your (first year law salary)-(54,000+Int) this year. If not, probably not worth the trouble

[oneforship]

I reached out to UVA a few weeks ago about deferment to see what they would say. I didn't outright ask for a scholarship, but did inquire about financial aid and scholarships for deferred students. I got all of the information about deferring, but did not get offered any money. I am also an LSAT splitter.

[whattodo2008]

I reached out to UVA a few weeks ago about deferment to see what they would say. I didn't outright ask for a scholarship, but did inquire about financial aid and scholarships for deferred students. I got all of the information about deferring, but did not get offered any money. I am also an LSAT splitter.

Interesting. I wonder how they are going about making deferral offers...

[IAFG]

I reached out to UVA a few weeks ago about deferment to see what they would say. I didn't outright ask for a scholarship, but did inquire about financial aid and scholarships for deferred students. I got all of the information about deferring, but did not get offered any money. I am also an LSAT splitter.

lame. i thought of you right away when i saw these.

[Anonymous User]

I was 172 and around 25th for GPA and was offered it somewhere between May 3rd-8th ish. So I guess I am a mild splitter. You might be able to bargain with them with the new information; they probably just thought they could get one deferred for free

[thatsnotmyname]

If UVA had more people accept than normal and thus is asking people to defer, does this mean that next year's UVA cycle is going to be tougher considering they have deferments, thus fewer spots, and will be more stringent with standards? Another secondary note is that if this is true, does it also mean there will be less scholarship money available for next year considering that they are using it now to entice people to defer?

I was thinking the same thing. If the acceptance rate this year was 10%, imagine what it's going to be next year. I wonder what percentage of the class admitted this year was ED.

I feel like next year will be tougher for admission and scholarship money, if they can get people to accept these deferral offers.

[whattodo2008]

If UVA had more people accept than normal and thus is asking people to defer, does this mean that next year's UVA cycle is going to be tougher considering they have deferments, thus fewer spots, and will be more stringent with standards? Another secondary note is that if this is true, does it also mean there will be less scholarship money available for next year considering that they are using it now to entice people to defer?

I was thinking the same thing. If the acceptance rate this year was 10%, imagine what it's going to be next year. I wonder what percentage of the class admitted this year was ED.

I feel like next year will be tougher for admission and scholarship money, if they can get people to accept these deferral offers.

I'm really curious how overenrolled they are. the fb group has around 320-325 members.

[Anonymous User]

Imagine if they actually wanted to HALVE the class size and not take any applicants next year, just all deferrals. YP.
So, yeah, how overenrolled are they? This is the second round of deferral begging. I know one person who took it.
Too bad someone can't start some kind of poll to find out exactly who gets asked to defer with money (and without money).
That sure would help some people to bargain.

[oneforship]

I was 172 and around 25th for GPA and was offered it somewhere between May 3rd-8th ish. So I guess I am a mild splitter. You might be able to bargain with them with the new information; they probably just thought they could get one deferred for free

It's possible, but now I've signed a lease and found a roommate, and am further committed to leaving my current job. If they come back to me, then I'll consider it, but for now it is UVA c/o 2013.

[clintonius]

Imagine if they actually wanted to HALVE the class size and not take any applicants next year, just all deferrals. YP.

HA! The dean of admissions would be pilloried and everybody else in the office driven out of town.

[hiro86]

It is crazy that they are over enrolled when they wait list so heavily. I think that those offered $54k should consider if they have employment they can keep for another year. If not, go now. It seems likely OCI will be better for the 2014 class, but who knows. It's also possible that this class might face heavy no offers or something like that if the economy heads back down.

[tcallahan22]

The only possible way turning down that kind of scholarship money makes sense is if you are already very well off, in which case going to law school doesn't really make sense anyway. If you plan on taking out loans to pay for law school, specifically if you are planning on paying sticker or close to it, you are an absolute fool for not taking the money. They are basically offering you 54k for absolutely nothing--that will never happen again in your life. Anyone who turns down that kind of money to rack up huge debt to go to law school has obviously never worked a day in his/her life and has no appreciation for money. There will come a day when all you want is to buy a house or, at the very least, have a positive net worth, and you won't be able to, because you rushed into law school way too fast.

[creamedcats]

How did UVA manage to get overenrolled after all those waitlists?

I'd take it.

[IAFG]

The only possible way turning down that kind of scholarship money makes sense is if you are already very well off, in which case going to law school doesn't really make sense anyway. If you plan on taking out loans to pay for law school, specifically if you are planning on paying sticker or close to it, you are an absolute fool for not taking the money. They are basically offering you 54k for absolutely nothing--that will never happen again in your life. Anyone who turns down that kind of money to rack up huge debt to go to law school has obviously never worked a day in his/her life and has no appreciation for money. There will come a day when all you want is to buy a house or, at the very least, have a positive net worth, and you won't be able to, because you rushed into law school way too fast.

You do not understand opportunity cost

[Anonymous User]

The only possible way turning down that kind of scholarship money makes sense is if you are already very well off, in which case going to law school doesn't really make sense anyway. If you plan on taking out loans to pay for law school, specifically if you are planning on paying sticker or close to it, you are an absolute fool for not taking the money. They are basically offering you 54k for absolutely nothing--that will never happen again in your life. Anyone who turns down that kind of money to rack up huge debt to go to law school has obviously never worked a day in his/her life and has no appreciation for money. There will come a day when all you want is to buy a house or, at the very least, have a positive net worth, and you won't be able to, because you rushed into law school way too fast.

You do not understand opportunity cost

Seconded, and I turned it down today for various reason...im paying sticker

[tcallahan22]

OPPORTUNITY COST? You're way overthinking this. Even if you can get a biglaw job (and let's say you do), your time at that job will almost certainly be short and finite, and putting it off for a year will not alter the duration. Even if you do everything right and get a job, it can still dissapear at any second, and you will almost certainly not have the option of procuring another one. Even if you make it to your first day of work, you will spend miserable hours doing work under the stress of life-crushing debt, knowing that if for some reason you are let go you will be put in an absolutely horrible financial situation. Never even mind the fact that someone who doesn't see the value of 54k isn't going to slave away for the rest of his/her life as a miserable corporate drone. There are literally hundreds and hundreds of HYS/T6/T10/T14 grads who cannot get jobs. Every year some 5-600 students graduate from Harvard Law School alone. UNDEREMPLOYMENT IS AT 20%. That "opportunity" you're passing up on is more likely to be depression and financial ruin that anything with an actual positive value. Any 0L who isn't at least a little nervous about the idea of paying sticker at any school is oblivious or insane.

Things you aren't considering

1. The stress of debt is unbearable--you will literally be walking around worth more dead than alive...you will be tied down with limited options and without the ability to go about your life as you wish. Can you really put a price on your peace of mind?
2. At 160k/year (assuming you can get it) you are getting slammed with taxes, making debt repayment especially difficult
3. That money you're borrowing is an unsecured loan at a lousy interest rate
4. You're comparing a year of miserable work to a year of "go enjoy yourself and do whatever you want"
5. Someone who isn't industrious enough to find SOMETHING productive, even if it's just volunteering or working a really low paying job probably isn't destined to become a corporate bigshot anyway
6. ITE deferrment is a blessing--not something you should be afraid of

At the end of the day, it's the op's/whomever's decision. But for the love of God, go out and poll the real world and get some advice from people in law school/actually working legal jobs before you make a decision--because God knows with the exception of some of the people who graduated in the past several years, they sure as hell didn't graduate with 180k in debt. The fact that there's such a consensus here that it's a wise decision to proceed as planned is frightening. People here need to stop thinking that the world is going to explode if they have to put off law school for a year.

[BarCliff]

That's not overthinking the slightest. It's smart thinking, opportunity cost is real and you are missing out on a year of working.

Further, let's say you're offered $54,000 to take a year off.

Let's say you have rent for that year. That's $1200 * 12 = $14,400

Food/other expenses. $500*12 = $6,000

And by now, you should already have a house contract at UVA. Rent is pretty cheap there, we'll say $800*12 = $9,600

So now you're wasting a year of your life to bank somewhere around $25,000.

It's just not worth it. It's not like you have $54,000 cash

[Anonymous User]

OPPORTUNITY COST? You're way overthinking this. Even if you can get a biglaw job (and let's say you do), your time at that job will almost certainly be short and finite, and putting it off for a year will not alter the duration. Even if you do everything right and get a job, it can still dissapear at any second, and you will almost certainly not have the option of procuring another one. Even if you make it to your first day of work, you will spend miserable hours doing work under the stress of life-crushing debt, knowing that if for some reason you are let go you will be put in an absolutely horrible financial situation. Never even mind the fact that someone who doesn't see the value of 54k isn't going to slave away for the rest of his/her life as a miserable corporate drone. There are literally hundreds and hundreds of HYS/T6/T10/T14 grads who cannot get jobs. Every year some 5-600 students graduate from Harvard Law School alone. UNDEREMPLOYMENT IS AT 20%. That "opportunity" you're passing up on is more likely to be depression and financial ruin that anything with an actual positive value. Any 0L who isn't at least a little nervous about the idea of paying sticker at any school is oblivious or insane.

Things you aren't considering

1. The stress of debt is unbearable--you will literally be walking around worth more dead than alive...you will be tied down with limited options and without the ability to go about your life as you wish. Can you really put a price on your peace of mind?
2. At 160k/year (assuming you can get it) you are getting slammed with taxes, making debt repayment especially difficult
3. That money you're borrowing is an unsecured loan at a lousy interest rate
4. You're comparing a year of miserable work to a year of "go enjoy yourself and do whatever you want"
5. Someone who isn't industrious enough to find SOMETHING productive, even if it's just volunteering or working a really low paying job probably isn't destined to become a corporate bigshot anyway
6. ITE deferrment is a blessing--not something you should be afraid of

At the end of the day, it's the op's/whomever's decision. But for the love of God, go out and poll the real world and get some advice from people in law school/actually working legal jobs before you make a decision--because God knows with the exception of some of the people who graduated in the past several years, they sure as hell didn't graduate with 180k in debt. The fact that there's such a consensus here that it's a wise decision to proceed as planned is frightening. People here need to stop thinking that the world is going to explode if they have to put off law school for a year.

Uhh no, definitely not over thinking. Not everything is about money. And all my law school friends and lawyers I know told me that I should get my law career going, that uva is a great school and that one year wont really do much to prospects. I just came here to ask if other people received this, if you think I actually take advice from this, you are crazy. And the difference in 200K and 150K in debt isnt really that much money, sure at first the offer sounded great. Then you realize that you have a roommate, a lease you signed already and started paying rent, tuition is going to INCREASE next year even more, you have to find a job, put off paying undergrad loans even more, etc. Not worth it, I asked for more money, pretty sure thats not happening. So im going at sticker, was it a hard decision to turn down 54K...yea, but in my honest opinion, if you cant get a job coming from UVA law, that is something wrong with you, not the school or the year you decided to go.

[Hiei]

OPPORTUNITY COST? You're way overthinking this. Even if you can get a biglaw job (and let's say you do), your time at that job will almost certainly be short and finite, and putting it off for a year will not alter the duration. Even if you do everything right and get a job, it can still dissapear at any second, and you will almost certainly not have the option of procuring another one. Even if you make it to your first day of work, you will spend miserable hours doing work under the stress of life-crushing debt, knowing that if for some reason you are let go you will be put in an absolutely horrible financial situation. Never even mind the fact that someone who doesn't see the value of 54k isn't going to slave away for the rest of his/her life as a miserable corporate drone. There are literally hundreds and hundreds of HYS/T6/T10/T14 grads who cannot get jobs. Every year some 5-600 students graduate from Harvard Law School alone. UNDEREMPLOYMENT IS AT 20%. That "opportunity" you're passing up on is more likely to be depression and financial ruin that anything with an actual positive value. Any 0L who isn't at least a little nervous about the idea of paying sticker at any school is oblivious or insane.

Things you aren't considering

1. The stress of debt is unbearable--you will literally be walking around worth more dead than alive...you will be tied down with limited options and without the ability to go about your life as you wish. Can you really put a price on your peace of mind?
2. At 160k/year (assuming you can get it) you are getting slammed with taxes, making debt repayment especially difficult
3. That money you're borrowing is an unsecured loan at a lousy interest rate
4. You're comparing a year of miserable work to a year of "go enjoy yourself and do whatever you want"
5. Someone who isn't industrious enough to find SOMETHING productive, even if it's just volunteering or working a really low paying job probably isn't destined to become a corporate bigshot anyway
6. ITE deferrment is a blessing--not something you should be afraid of

At the end of the day, it's the op's/whomever's decision. But for the love of God, go out and poll the real world and get some advice from people in law school/actually working legal jobs before you make a decision--because God knows with the exception of some of the people who graduated in the past several years, they sure as hell didn't graduate with 180k in debt. The fact that there's such a consensus here that it's a wise decision to proceed as planned is frightening. People here need to stop thinking that the world is going to explode if they have to put off law school for a year.

This entire post is based on the massive assumption that the hypothetical person in your scenario has an awesome job lined up that they can take instead of going to law school. If they do not have said job, or do not have some way of living off of someone else, this entire argument falls apart. I'm also trying to figure out why/how you think someone could just spend a year volunteering or doing "something productive" with no income and without it leading to a some sort of degree/education that leads to a higher income. I will say though that your point number 2. is quite valid and is something that people are not discussing enough. Honestly 160K after taxes when you are paying sticker at a top law school is not a great salary (especially if you cannot deal with living outside of the most beloved TLS locales like NYC/DC/SF that have sky high COL).

[tcallahan22]

I don't think people here understand debt. That 54k is the first 54k you have to borrow and the last 54k you are going to have to pay off. It is the marginal amount in question. If you are taking out 180k in loans, you will be repaying your debt for YEARS after you graduate law school. Look at it this way, that 18k/year accrues interest from the second you start borrowing til the second you pay off your last dollar of debt. That amount of money takes even Biglaw associates YEARS to repay. If, God forbid, biglaw doesnt happen or doesn't work out, you are going to be repaying this money for the rest of your young life. This money will be accruing interest every second of every day of every year. It will punch you in the face every morning when you wake up. That is 54K you don't have to BORROW. 54k you don't have to pay 5/10/15 years of interest on. 54k you don't have to pay loan fees on. 54k you don't have to pay back using "post-tax" money. 54k you don't have to worry about. That 54k may very well be worth MORE than 160k to you, and it's being offered to you for absolutely nothing.

[Anonymous User]

but that 54 now is not 54 k next year....so instead of paying 47500 for tuition this year, i would be paying probably above 50 k next year if i start. So the 54K is worth less. I figured out that if tuition increases the same as it did this year, law school will cost me about 13,000 more then if I went this year. So now that scholly is only 41 K. Then, take into account that ill have to pay rent and not even be there...another 5 K out the window. So now its more like 36,000 $. Plus the fact that I dont have a job and I am nearly broke. i still have loans from undergrad accruing interest, etc. And say what you will, but i like my odds of either getting a good job or qualifying for LRAP coming out of UVA law. If it was more money, say 75K, I would have a really hard time turning it down. But to put off another year of going to law school, with no prospects, for around $12,000/year, does not really seem worth it too me. Sure id like to have a year off to chill and travel, but it seems smarter just to go now.

[tcallahan22]

Yeah i'm not saying I don't respect the decision, because it can make sense given particular circumstances. I more just generally appalled at the consensus that 18k/year isn't worth waiting a year for. The real kicker in my mind is that deferment is probably a good idea regardless. Either way, good luck.

[thatsnotmyname]

but in my honest opinion, if you cant get a job coming from UVA law, that is something wrong with you, not the school or the year you decided to go.

Well, I'm just an 0L just like you, but I don't think that's true. You will probably be able to find a job, but will you be able to find a job that you felt was worth it after having paid sticker and spending three more years in school? Not always, even if you did your best, worked hard in law school, and there's nothing "wrong with you"... especially the way people have been describing what's going on with the legal market in this economy.