General Questions about Wachtell Forum

[PLATONiC]

as well as other similarly regarded law firms:
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3. How do you get hired by Wachtell? How difficult is it compared to getting hired by Cravath, Skadden, etc.?

4. How much more difficult is it to get hired by Wachtell if you're not from an elite UG?

5. What kind of grades does a person generally need in order to get hired by Kirkland, Latham?

6. Is there a place where I can find information on associate attrition rates at these elite law firms?

7. What percentage of senior associates stay at these elite law firms until they get considered for partner? Does anyone know about the rate at which these associates actually do make partner?

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Lots and lots of questions... I know. I've done a decent amount of searching on the Internet, but I think the TLS community could answer these in a heart beat. Thanks!

[Anonymous User]

Wachtell bills their clients based on the value of the assets they're working on, not on a per-hour fee. Also, lol @ you falling for april fools jokes.

[PLATONiC]

Wachtell bills their clients based on the value of the assets they're working on, not on a per-hour fee. Also, lol @ you falling for april fools jokes.

ahhhhh okay so it's not 4,500 hours! jeez, I'm so stupid. I'll change the questions.

[Mickey Quicknumbers]

Can top 5% at Emory (just some random school I picked for no reason) get into watchell or any other V10?

[fortissimo]

You're not even in law school yet and you're thinking about this?

[thesealocust]

oops

[Blindmelon]

Can top 5% at Emory (just some random school I picked for no reason) get into watchell or any other V10?

ITE unlikely but possible. I know of only 1 person from BU who is going to work at Cravath, but hes #1-3 in his class.

[miamiman]

Lol. Platonic, you are quickly becoming my favorite tlser.

You ask all the ridiculous, woefully ignorant, exploratory questions I didn't have the balls to ask a year ago.

[Anonymous User]

I'll bite.

First off, Blindmelon, in what sense is it possible? If you mean in the trivial sense, like curing cancer is possible, then yes, getting Wachtell from Emory is possible. But for all intents and purposes, WLRK directly from Emory isn't happening. Not in this economy. Not in a better economy.

3. How do you get hired by Wachtell? How difficult is it compared to getting hired by Cravath, Skadden, etc.?

You interview with them if they come to your campus for On-Campus Interviews. Compared to Cravath, Skadden, etc., it is significantly harder.

4. How much more difficult is it to get hired by Wachtell if you're not from an elite UG?

I don't think this matters. What matters is your grades and law school.

5. What kind of grades does a person generally need in order to get hired by Kirkland, Latham?

Kirkland depends on office (and school). For NY, top third from MVP. DC, top fifth. Same for Chicago. For San Francisco, top 15%.
Latham depends on office and school too, but they've gotten much more selective (by my own estimation, they've gone from taking the solidly above median at MVP to offering only to the top 15%).

6. Is there a place where I can find information on associate attrition rates at these elite law firms?

Generally, no. However, since not that many people are voluntarily leaving firms in this economy, you could determine firms' anticipated attrition rates by looking at their layoff numbers (at least for firms that haven't done mass layoffs).

7. What percentage of senior associates stay at these elite law firms until they get considered for partner? Does anyone know about the rate at which these associates actually do make partner?

This is hard to answer and it really depends on staffing models. Some firms cut the chaff throughout the associate development period, leaving behind associates who are "partner-track." Other firms have non-share partners, for which senior associates are almost automatically promoted. Other firms rely on voluntary attrition (and subtly telling a senior associate that they're not partner-track). Other firms will allow senior associates to stay on as Of Counsel.

I'd say that there are very few senior associates left of their initial class. But if you're among them, you have a pretty decent chance of making partner. But there are so many other variables at play, like the size of your book, other nitpicky stuff about you, firm politics, etc. Because of that, there's also a lot of luck involved.

[Anonymous User]

Man, you're all over the place. In one thread you talk about how you think you'll be doing a state as opposed to a federal clerkship, now you're wondering about how to land a gig at the most competitive / selective law firm in the country? What law school are you going do? With few exceptions Wacthell doesn't hire outside of 7 or so law schools (HYSCCN / P).

Don't listen to this. Like any firm, Wachtell hires what they need when they need it. I personally know someone who started as an associate there coming from Duke, and he wasn't even on law review. Granted, he was a higher-up editor for the duke IP/technology journal and that is his specialty, but anyone who tells you that they ONLY hire top 7 with few exceptions is lying. Yes, there is probably a greater amount of Yale graduates there than from other schools (and compared to other firms), but there are still quite a lot of Fordham/Cardozo and others in there.

What you need to realize about Wachtell is that not only is it much smaller than most other firms, but it is one of the only major firms where the named partners are all still working (and are relatively young). Also, it is a New York firm, plain and simple. Because of factors such as these, it is hard to compare with a lot of other white shoe firms, and because of this they have less of a 'formula' in hiring. If you are a good student, and you're really f-ing good at what you specialize in, and they happen to be needing someone with that specialty, then you're likely to be a contender. There are no rules.

[Anonymous User]

.

[RisingMichigan3L]

but it is one of the only major firms where the named partners are all still working (and are relatively young).

Hahahaha. What?

1) Katz is no longer alive.
2) How does the fact that a firm's name partners are still working influence hiring? It just means it's a young firm, but there are plenty of TTTs with name partners still working. And there are plenty of other great firms where name partners are still working, that are much more attainable than WLRK (Quinn is one example).

Wachtell is hard to get because it is the epitome of good firm management: Super low leverage. I don't think they've had 100 student summer classes, unlike other "peer" firms.

Also, Lipton is not "relatively young." He's 79. Skadden starts retirement phase-out for partners at 67 (for example). Wachtell himself is also 79. I think it's pretty well known that Herlihy is the de factor leader of the firm at the moment (and interestingly enough, he graduated from GW Law).

[T14_Scholly]

What you need to realize about Wachtell is that not only is it much smaller than most other firms, but it is one of the only major firms where the named partners are all still working (and are relatively young).

Herb Wachtell and Martin Lipton are both 78, Leonard Rosen graduated college in 1951, and George Katz is no longer at the firm (and may well be dead).

[T14_Scholly]

Also, why do people use the anonymous feature unnecessarily? Probably because they don't want to be ridiculed for saying stupid things.

[Blindmelon]

I'll bite.

First off, Blindmelon, in what sense is it possible? If you mean in the trivial sense, like curing cancer is possible, then yes, getting Wachtell from Emory is possible. But for all intents and purposes, WLRK directly from Emory isn't happening. Not in this economy. Not in a better economy.

Well - possible as in you better be #1 or #2 in the class or so. And being #1 in the class might as well be as unlikely as curing cancer given how ridiculous that is.

[RisingMichigan3L]

Well - possible as in you better be #1 or #2 in the class or so.

Nope, not even then.

[Bosque]

The answer to all of these is: Why the hell would you want to work at Wachtell? Do you hate yourself and your family?

[d34d9823]

The answer to all of these is: Why the hell would you want to work at Wachtell? Do you hate yourself and your family?

You realize that Wachtell is THE dream job in BigLaw, right? If you're gonna work 60+ anyway, you might as well work 70+ at the best firm in the country for twice the pay.

[RisingMichigan3L]

The answer to all of these is: Why the hell would you want to work at Wachtell? Do you hate yourself and your family?

Oh come on now. Yes, I think working for WLRK wouldn't be in the best interests of 99% of the people on this forum, but there are people for whom the firm is an absolutely outstanding experience. Maybe you have circumstances that make WLRK a no-go, but there are others who are willing to sacrifice their personal lives and time for the sake of the work that firm brings in. It's just a difference between what they value and what you value.

I think, what's worse about all this is that those 99% who are unfit for WLRK would probably accept an offer there if given the chance. I think even you would.

[Renzo]

Man, you're all over the place. In one thread you talk about how you think you'll be doing a state as opposed to a federal clerkship, now you're wondering about how to land a gig at the most competitive / selective law firm in the country? What law school are you going do? With few exceptions Wacthell doesn't hire outside of 7 or so law schools (HYSCCN / P).

Don't listen to this. Like any firm, Wachtell hires what they need when they need it. I personally know someone who started as an associate there coming from Duke, and he wasn't even on law review. Granted, he was a higher-up editor for the duke IP/technology journal and that is his specialty, but anyone who tells you that they ONLY hire top 7 with few exceptions is lying. Yes, there is probably a greater amount of Yale graduates there than from other schools (and compared to other firms), but there are still quite a lot of Fordham/Cardozo and others in there.

What you need to realize about Wachtell is that not only is it much smaller than most other firms, but it is one of the only major firms where the named partners are all still working (and are relatively young). Also, it is a New York firm, plain and simple. Because of factors such as these, it is hard to compare with a lot of other white shoe firms, and because of this they have less of a 'formula' in hiring. If you are a good student, and you're really f-ing good at what you specialize in, and they happen to be needing someone with that specialty, then you're likely to be a contender. There are no rules.

According to NALP, Wachtell hires from these (non-Duke) law schools:

Columbia University Law School
Harvard Law School
Howard University School of Law
New York University School of Law
Stanford Law School
UCLA School of Law
University of California at Berkeley, Boalt Hall School of Law
University of Chicago Law School
University of Pennsylvania Law School
University of Texas School of Law
Yale Law School

Sure, every once in a great while they might hire some mail-in applicant, but that's a rarity in any market, and a hopeless fantasy in the current job market.

[kittenmittons]

ITT: kids who can't get WLRK speculate about how to get WLRK

[RisingMichigan3L]

ITT: kids who can't get WLRK speculate about how to get WLRK

ITT person makes completely unsubstantiated statement because what I said was 100% right? What part about "you interview with WLRK when they come to do on-campus interviews" is that speculative?

[Renzo]

ITT: kids who can't get WLRK speculate about how to get WLRK

Amen.

[jnorsky]

I wonder why they dont do OCI at MVDN yet do it at UT and UCLA.

[Renzo]

I wonder why they dont do OCI at MVDN yet do it at UT and UCLA.

Apparently they haven't been reading USNWR.